"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision
of what is before them, glory and danger alike,
and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it."~Thucydides
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Posted on 05/12/2014 5:06:13 AM PDT by McGruff
Eastern Ukrainian cities voted to inch closer Moscow and further from Kiev on Sunday, following in the controversial wake of Crimea, a Black Sea peninsula formerly part of Ukraine.
Between 94% and 98% of eligible voters in Ukraine’s eastern provinces of Luhansk and Donetsk both voted for greater autonomy from Kiev, the head of the region’s Central Election Committee said on Monday.
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
No, you’re simply refusing to address the reality of the situation, unless it feeds the scenario you have come up with.
It’s not unfair to mention Russian troop, tanks, personnel carriers, and thugs on the street.
The election in Crimea was heralded as extremely fair by the Russian government, high turn out, overwhelming decision to join Russia over 95%. Then the Russian media released the real figures for about an hour, and it revealed that the turnout was only 30%, and just a little more than 50% of those 30% voted for annexation. On the order of 52% voted for annexation.
Not only this, the government of the Ukraine did not all the election. The government of a border state called the election. That’s not a recognized way for the elections of any nation to be handled.
And yet you act as if none of this matters, and folks are wrong to address it.
The government is viewed by a large portion of Ukrainian Citizens as ILLEGITIMATE.
Dang! There you go with that "truth" stuff again...
Probably some sort of Muslim connection involved. Or Obama is an incompetent dope.
Only 75% of the eligible voters voted. It was 94% of those 75% that voted for separation.
I’m betting a lot of pro-Ukrainian folks stayed home, out of fear or frustration. They already knew which way this was going to go.
Whatever they thought they voted for -— thanks to contentious and controversial left-wing agitprop -— they chose to submit to Russian authority.
When they find that they don’t like that, and would have preferred to remain independent yet still a part of Ukraine, we are assured by the leftists that the voters decision to free themselves from the yoke of left-wing tyranny ... will be as immediately smiled upon, as Sunday’s “election” results.
We’re going to see a correction on those figures. It won’t show a loss for Russia, but it will certainly erase the massive vote in favor, bringing it down into the proper perspective.
That’s my take on this.
BTW: I was tossing out some figures on Crimea here. You may have seen those and thought I was talking the 11th in the Eastern Ukraine. I wasn’t. Just thought I’d mention this in case...
Townhall.com ^ | May 13, 2014 | Ron Paul
In several eastern Ukrainian towns over the past week, the military opened fire on its own citizens. Dozens may have been killed in the violence. Although the U.S. government generally condemns a country's use of military force against its own population, especially if they are unarmed protesters, this time the U.S. administration blamed the victims. After as many as 20 unarmed protesters were killed on the May 9th holiday in Ukraine, the State Department spokesman said "we condemn the outbreak of violence caused by pro-Russia separatists."Why are people protesting in eastern Ukraine? Because they do not believe the government that came to power after the US-backed uprising in February is legitimate. They do not recognize the authority of an unelected president and prime minister. The U.S. sees this as a Russian-sponsored destabilization effort, but is it so hard to understand that the people in Ukraine may be annoyed with the U.S. and EU for their involvement in regime change in their country? Would we be so willing to accept an unelected government in Washington put in place with the backing of the Chinese and Iranians?
The U.S. State Department provided much assistance earlier this year to those involved in the effort to overthrow the Ukrainian government. The U.S. warned the Ukrainian government at the time not to take any action against those in the streets, even as they engaged in violence and occupied government buildings. But now that those former protesters have come to power, the U.S. takes a different view of protest. Now they give full support to the bloody crackdown against protesters in the east. The State Department spokesperson said last week: "We continue to call for groups who have jeopardized public order by taking up arms and seizing public buildings in violation of Ukrainian law to disarm and leave the buildings they have seized." This is the opposite of what they said in February. Do they think the rest of the world does not see this hypocrisy?
The residents of eastern Ukraine have long been closer to Russia than to the U.S. and EU. In fact, that part of Ukraine had been a part of Russia. After February's regime change, officials in the east announced that they would hold referenda to see whether the population wanted autonomy from the U.S.-backed government in Kiev. The U.S. demanded that Russian President Putin stop eastern Ukraine from voting on autonomy, and last week the Russian president did just that: he said that the vote should not be held as scheduled. The eastern Ukrainians ignored him and said they would hold the vote anyway. So much for the U.S. claims that Russia controls the opposition in Ukraine.
Even though the Russian president followed U.S. demands and urged the eastern Ukrainians to hold off on the vote, the U.S. State Department announced that the U.S. would apply additional sanctions on Russia if the vote is held! Does this make any sense?
The real question is why the U.S. government is involved in Ukraine in the first place. We are broke. We cannot even afford to fix our own economy. Yet we want to run Ukraine? Does it really matter who Ukrainians elect to represent them? Is it really a national security matter worth risking a nuclear war with Russia whether Ukraine votes for more regional autonomy and a weaker central government? Isn't that how the United States was originally conceived?
Has the arrogance of the U.S. administration, thinking they should run the world, driven us to the brink of another major war in Europe? Let us hope they will stop this dangerous game and come to their senses. I say let's have no war for Ukraine!
No doubt. This was a disappointment, but not unexpected. I’m sure there was some * voter fraud* going on there. Thuggery seems to be the rule of the land on both sides. I’ll bet a lot of ordinary Ukrainian folks who didnt support this referendum probably stayed home, out of fear, or disillusionment.
Do you have some articles/ evidence that point to Obama giving the radicals financial support? I’m not saying it didn’t happen, because it sure did in Syria. But if it happened in Ukraine, I’m curious how the money and support was channeled. -and I’m guessing that Russia financed the pro Russian radicals too. There’s nothing new about proxy wars using radical elements on both sides.
“Do you have some articles/ evidence that point to Obama giving the radicals financial support?”
Google “Victoria Nuland”...
Interesting that Russia hasn’t recognized the sham referedum by the subversives in the govt. buildings.
Something has changed and more and more it appears Russia is going to lose this round. Ukraine will vote for a President that will seek closer western ties. Bank on it.
So, the only way for Russia to win is to invade, which is a losing proposition in the long run. Puti poot is out of options if he doesn’t invade. Told you guys he was playing checkers....not chess.
"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision
of what is before them, glory and danger alike,
and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it."~Thucydides
Please support Free Republic
click the pic
“The real question is why the U.S. government is involved in Ukraine in the first place. We are broke. We cannot even afford to fix our own economy. Yet we want to run Ukraine?”
This is a very good question. What really is the US involvement here, and why?
Here's your answer.
Joe Biden’s Son Appointed Director of Ukraine’s Largest Gas Company!
There is a country for ethnic Russians. It is called RUSSIA. Too bad the Ukranian army lacks the military to relocate them and repel the expected Putinist invasion.
Ahhh. Surprise, surprise.
Do you really see that happening here? It seems at this point, the best Ukraine can hope for, is giving the eastern half of Ukraine autonomy, and try to restore civil relations. Hopefully, the eastern areas will then reject Russian rule.
Hard to know for sure whether Russia is truly democratic. If it is, Putin would be committing electoral suicide by adding 50m Ukrainians who don't want to be part of Russia. It would be as if the GOP decided to add Mexico to the union by coercive means.
Hard to say what Putins end game is, he’s very clever. I hope the Russian people start protesting his covert meddling in Ukraine. Seems like they support it, so far. But of course, their media is almost entirely state controlled now.
I’m getting pretty skeptical of anything good coming out of this. Looking more and more like its going to be an all out civil war at this point, fueled by the EUROPEAN UNION and the USA on one side, and Russia on the other. The Ukrainians are stuck in the middle.
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