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Neurosurgeon accused of putting lives at risk after claiming cycle helmets were useless
Telegraph (UK) ^ | 5/31/2014 | Claire Duffin

Posted on 06/01/2014 8:12:08 PM PDT by Huntress

Road safety campaigners have accused a leading neurosurgeon of putting lives at risk after he claimed cyclists who wear helmets were wasting their time.

Henry Marsh, who works at St George’s Hospital in Tooting, London, said many of his patients who had been involved in bike accidents had been wearing helmets that were “too flimsy” to be beneficial.

Mr Marsh cited evidence from the University of Bath which suggested that wearing a helmet might even put cyclists at greater risk.

It showed that drivers got around three inches closer to cyclists who wore helmets because they perceived them to be less fragile.

But campaigners said his remarks, made during a discussion with Ian McEwan, the author, at this year’s Hay Festival, were “disappointing”.

Kevin Clinton, head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA), said helmets were an important part of cycle safety. But said they should not be compulsory in case it put would-be riders off.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bicycle; helmets
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1 posted on 06/01/2014 8:12:08 PM PDT by Huntress
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To: Huntress
I've seen bikers wearing those helmets as a fashion statement as in on the back of their heads so they won't mess up their cute coiffure. It's the frontal lobe that needs protecting. Those so-called helmets are too soft. But then, how did kids in the 70's and before survive riding bikes and playing?

 photo tumblr_mpi8j6esEl1rl5twmo1_500_zps6eadc5a6.jpg

2 posted on 06/01/2014 8:18:41 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: SkyDancer

“The monkey bars came in.....we lost 124 kids in one day.....”

Bill Cosby - Playground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqv38fP7cr0


3 posted on 06/01/2014 8:21:05 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Huntress; nutmeg; whattajoke; Aeronaut; jern; concentric circles; Petronski; Voss; Drango; ...

Bike Ping

In a training ride with dozens of riders, I was caught in a mess that happened in front of me. To this day, my mind won't recall what exactly happened.

I woke up in the hospital several hours later and was told I had a concussion and would have to spend the night for observation. My jersey and shorts had been cut off, I had a lot of road rash and several broken ribs. I was given a bag with my shoes and the remains of a Gyro helmet that the doctor said my head would have looked like had I not been wearing it.

As is done with all Gyro helmets, I sent the pieces back and it was promptly replaced by the company. As much as I didn't like them at first, I may not be sitting up typing right now, had I shunned wearing one.

4 posted on 06/01/2014 8:23:55 PM PDT by Baynative (How much longer will the media be able to prop up this administration?)
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To: left that other site

PING


5 posted on 06/01/2014 8:24:23 PM PDT by kingattax (America needs more real Americans.)
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To: Huntress
Any chance the neurosurgeon is suffering from sampling error? Those cyclists who bang their heads but survive without major injury because of a helmet don't see him and similarly those who are killed without helmets don't see him either. Only those who are severely injured but survive, whether they were wearing a helmet or not, get on his patient list. Has he done a statistical analysis of the number of riders, number of riders in accidents and the severity of their injuries outside of those who end up as his patients? Or does he just go by his anecdotal knowledge of his patients.

I'll keep on wearing my helmet while riding.

6 posted on 06/01/2014 8:24:46 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Republican amnesty supporters don't care whether their own homes are called mansions or haciendas.)
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To: dfwgator

Ya, LOL - had to sit through like five CD’s of his with my g’pop and gg’pop to teach and explain to me what it was like growing up in the city. I live 600ft. up the side of a heavily wooded mountain on the Olympic Peninsula (when I’m not working in Oz) - so I had no idea of what they were talking about until then. Now I’ve been to many sites showing pictures of old NYC and have a better understanding of what their lives were like when they were eight and up ....


7 posted on 06/01/2014 8:25:43 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: Huntress

Well, Dr. Marsh, the neurosurgeon with a lifetime of clinical experience, better mind his Ps and Qs. Doesn’t he know this is “settled science”? Is he some kind of helmet “denier”?

Even if helmets aren’t effective, they look kind of cool and lots of kids in China are employed making them. And they make certain people feel good that they’re doing something for the children.


8 posted on 06/01/2014 8:27:41 PM PDT by BigBobber (`)
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To: KarlInOhio

My oral surgeon was 100% against me going on a medication because it can cause osteonecrosis of the jaw. The problem was the doctor only saw the tiny fraction of patients who had this rare complication, not the 95-99% who greatly benefit from it.


9 posted on 06/01/2014 8:30:16 PM PDT by LukeL
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To: All
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10 posted on 06/01/2014 8:30:30 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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11 posted on 06/01/2014 8:35:36 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Huntress

What the neurosurgeon said sort of agrees with what an emergency room doctor said of motorcycle riders about a decade or so ago.

He said there are two types of motorcycle riders, those who don’t wear helmets, they are called organ donors.

Those who wear helmets...............quadriplegics.


12 posted on 06/01/2014 8:51:08 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: LukeL
My oral surgeon was 100% against me going on a medication because it can cause osteonecrosis of the jaw.

Was it a bisphosphonate (e.g. Fossamax, Boniva, etc.)? I was on one of those for a while, and my dentist would not do any major work on me until I was off it for at least six months. He told me that osteonecrosis is rare, but is so awful he would not risk it.

13 posted on 06/01/2014 8:51:40 PM PDT by Huntress ("Politicians exploit economic illiteracy." --Walter Williams)
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To: Huntress

It is like a bisphosphonate, it is called Denosumab. It works on a different principal and the risk of osteonecrosis is unknown (but does occur). What makes it worse is my treatment is for bone tumors in the jaw. I too can have nothing but cleanings until I am off the medication.


14 posted on 06/01/2014 8:53:35 PM PDT by LukeL
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To: Huntress

Helmets are generally wise; should they be required (and if so when) is the question.

I twice conked a helmet on the ground and was glad it was not the corresponding part of my head that had conked.


15 posted on 06/01/2014 9:01:38 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: KarlInOhio
Any chance the neurosurgeon is suffering from sampling error? Those cyclists who bang their heads but survive without major injury because of a helmet don't see him and similarly those who are killed without helmets don't see him either. Only those who are severely injured but survive, whether they were wearing a helmet or not, get on his patient list. Has he done a statistical analysis of the number of riders, number of riders in accidents and the severity of their injuries outside of those who end up as his patients? Or does he just go by his anecdotal knowledge of his patients.

Nicely stated.

The neurosurgeon's analysis is different from an epi study, which would have taken a large sample size, included reporting bias and other errors.

I focused on the "too flimsy" comment. Flimsy can be good when it comes to impact attenuation.

I will wear my flimsy helmet as well.

.

16 posted on 06/01/2014 9:10:23 PM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: Huntress
Road safety campaigners have accused a leading neurosurgeon of putting lives at risk after he claimed cyclists who wear helmets were wasting their time.

I'd think that would depend on whether it's true or not. I'm so sick of people who act as if their opinion should be treated as sacrosanct and anyone who dares disagree should be treated as wrong, and probably malicious, and punished, without ever debating the issue on its merits.

17 posted on 06/01/2014 9:15:25 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Seaplaner

Good question. Is this an actual scientific study.

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation in the USA, which HAS accessed scientific studies, always recommends the helmets, though keeping its hands off of political treatment of the issue.

Maybe there is a perverse point here. Basket cases with a helmet might have just died without the helmet.


18 posted on 06/01/2014 9:17:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Still Thinking

But there is good reason to question whether this is scientific. He does not get a view into all accident cases, just some of them.


19 posted on 06/01/2014 9:18:01 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

OK, just read the first couple sentences. Still reading the entire article.


20 posted on 06/01/2014 9:18:48 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: KarlInOhio
what I got from the story is that the sight of helmets actually makes drivers less safe, less cautious...thus putting the helmet riders in a more dangerous place...

his thinking is that a driver seeing someone without a helmet will stay farther away...

imo , another point is that helmets, just like on motorcycles, can interfere with hearing and sight and manuverability...maybe just enough so you don't catch the speeding car trying to get around you....

as with all our modern culture, we hold certain beliefs as "sacred" and not to be questioned, ala global warming, ala red meat, ala carbs, gluten,fatty oils, etc...

21 posted on 06/01/2014 9:18:53 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Huntress

If you have a $10 head, wear a $10 helmet.


22 posted on 06/01/2014 9:52:36 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: SkyDancer

Anyone remember the days when as a kid you could ride in the back of a pickup truck. Those were fun days.


23 posted on 06/01/2014 9:53:46 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: cherry

Ask Gary Busey if he should have worn a helmet when he crashed on a motorcycle in 1988.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20120285,00.html

Bicycle or motorcycle you should wear a helmet. You are on 2 wheels and a few pebbles can throw you off the bike.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/Thomzilla/FarK/busey_two.jpg


24 posted on 06/01/2014 10:08:11 PM PDT by minnesota_bound
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To: SkyDancer

I loved playing on those as a kid! :-)

I think they called the one at school a Jungle Gym.

I don’t remember that many girls playing on it though...


25 posted on 06/01/2014 10:15:43 PM PDT by Bobalu (What cannot be programmed cannot be physics)
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To: Seaplaner

Yup, the neuro guys conclusions are poorly reasoned.

Somehow it just seems safer to wear a helmet, it’s a simple common-sense notion that I have.


26 posted on 06/01/2014 10:20:38 PM PDT by Bobalu (What cannot be programmed cannot be physics)
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To: Huntress

It’s a population reduction technique derived from Darwin’s theories. Further, it has a bit of a Eugenic side: Stupid people will use this as an excuse not to wear one, and will be less likely to reproduce.


27 posted on 06/01/2014 10:26:16 PM PDT by tpmintx (Gun free zones are hunting preserves for unarmed people.)
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To: Huntress

Interesting take on helmets, to conclude that the drivers of the cars around the cyclist give less room to helmet-wearers and thereby raise the risk of injury. I’ve already read that (likely non-professional/non-serious) cyclists who wear helmets apparently ride more carelessly and thus counteract most of the benefit afforded by the helmet. I imagine that those who cycle “seriously” as in the spandex/overpriced-components crowd probably don’t change their habits much, but kids and casual cyclists probably do infer more invulnerability from the helmet.

As to helmets on motorcycles, while I’m not a big fan of coercing riders to wear them, I cannot really understand the appeal of riding without one. I’ve had to do it a couple of times, when my helmet became unavailable for one reason or another, and it was miserable. The air rushing past my head drowned out all sound including the bike’s motor, my eyes watered so much I could barely see, and my face was constantly bombarded by dust/sand, bugs, and other assorted crap.


28 posted on 06/01/2014 10:26:51 PM PDT by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

I remember the Navajos in NM always riding in the back of trucks, and we went from NW Arkansas to Springfield MO with my brother and me in the back of Dad’s old truck.

He did have stock racks on so we wouldn’t fall out.

I noticed the bed of my Dodge Trucks have places to put a 2x8 boards for seats if need.


29 posted on 06/01/2014 10:41:06 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: Little Pig

In Illinois when helmet laws went away, eye protection was still required. I rode with nothing but eyeglasses on my head sometimes. It’s still tricky; wind getting around the lenses can get the eyes teary.


30 posted on 06/01/2014 10:43:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Folks who think helmets work don’t understand brain trauma.


31 posted on 06/02/2014 12:22:16 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: wastoute

Ok what about all the trauma of the head skidding against pavement.

Even if the helmet doesn’t prevent all brain injuries it is effective in preventing a lot of the out side of your head from being scrapped off.

Remember he is only seeing the people that come into the ER not the many more that just get up from a crash look at their banged up helmet and walk away.

I was taken down in a race from a rider who hit me from behind shattered my helmet lots of road rash (none on my head) other then that no damage.

I am a firm believer in them.


32 posted on 06/02/2014 3:54:40 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: SkyDancer

what a bunch of pansies...when I was growing up, metal monkey bars were on concrete.


33 posted on 06/02/2014 4:22:18 AM PDT by stylin19a (Obama ----> Fredo smart)
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To: Little Pig
A mc riding friend and I were discussing this yesterday. When helmets were required in Texas, people wore all kind of contraptions that met the test of the law but were useless as helmets. Now, with no law the helmets are very good and except for old Harley riders, most wear good helmets.

Take away the coercion, and people do the right thing

34 posted on 06/02/2014 4:22:47 AM PDT by cb
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I conked a helmet on the the ground once, not very hard. But it removed any doubt that I’ll always wear one when riding.


35 posted on 06/02/2014 4:33:17 AM PDT by Freeping Since 2001 (Since 2001. Seriously.)
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To: Seaplaner

I remember first learning why they put those lycra “panties” on the foam Gyro helmets: “It’s to protect your head on the second bounce.” (Because the helmet turns into packing peanuts on the first strike, and keeping them around your head actually helps.)


36 posted on 06/02/2014 4:35:01 AM PDT by Freeping Since 2001 (Since 2001. Seriously.)
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To: Balding_Eagle
Those who wear helmets...............quadriplegics.

I understand that every day in this country legions of psychiatrists and clinical psychologists visit hospital wards in which there are many, many young men (it's almost invariably young men, young women seem to have better sense) who have had motorcycle accidents and are lying in hospital beds and will never walk again. Some have lost the use of their hands and arms, too.

They are there to counsel these men on how to adapt to never walking or in some instances, never being able to do much of anything ever again.

Yep, motorcycling is a great sport.

37 posted on 06/02/2014 4:49:43 AM PDT by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: OldPossum

Legions, huh? Actually there are multitudes more young people who are paraplegics from auto accidents. Much less football, soccer, bicycling, swimming pools.

Best to hide in a closet.


38 posted on 06/02/2014 6:50:12 AM PDT by Seruzawa (Gully Foyle is my name, and Terra is my nation)
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To: Bobalu

Having ridden (briefly) sans helmet, then extensively with a full-face helmet, I will always ride with the helmet. June bugs in the face HURT!


39 posted on 06/02/2014 7:01:50 AM PDT by MortMan (Avoid temporary variables and strange women.)
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To: Baynative

There’s certainly a range of prices there. Any suggestions (I think I need to replace my 15 y.o. helmet)?


40 posted on 06/02/2014 7:25:56 AM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: Baynative

I’ve had my share of head to earth encounters on my mountain bike and the helmets have done their job everytime. Had a Bell helmet that took the full of impact of an OTB at over 25 mph...the whole right side of the helmet was crushed...I was wobbly (concussed) and had a broken collarbone, but that was the best $45 I ever spent.

I learned a long time ago as a dirt and street biker to wear them and to not forego wearing one.

Btw, would you please add me to your bike ping list?


41 posted on 06/02/2014 7:41:18 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Patriotic1
There are plenty of discounted prices on Ebay because the styles change so fast.
42 posted on 06/02/2014 7:43:01 AM PDT by Baynative (How much longer will the media be able to prop up this administration?)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

:^)


43 posted on 06/02/2014 7:43:29 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian
contestant - "I'll take safety gear for $500 Alec."

Alec Trebec - The answer is "It's made of 65 cents worth of plastic, and $1.10 in labor, the packaging costs75 cents and the liability insurance costs $4.40 yet sells for between $30 and $130"

contestant - "What is a bicycle helmet?"

Alec - "Correct!"

PS- welcome to the FR Peloton - TdF just one month away

44 posted on 06/02/2014 7:47:44 AM PDT by Baynative (How much longer will the media be able to prop up this administration?)
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To: Seruzawa

Sure, people are injured and killed in auto accidents but at least they had some protection from the size and enclosure of the vehicle. With motorcycles you have no protection unless you think that helmet is going to save your butt. Maybe it does help a bit but the rest of you, well...

Comparing motorcycle accidents to sports injuries. Please. No comparison.

I’ll go with the odds and the odds say you’re safer in a car or truck. But, hey, it’s our a@@, not mine.


45 posted on 06/02/2014 9:08:14 AM PDT by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: OldPossum

Motorcycling is a great sport, The Obama Economy forced me to sell my latest one, after more than 30 years of owning a cycle.

I miss it every day.


46 posted on 06/02/2014 10:30:31 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: OldPossum

Forgot to add, seldom rode with a helmet. It interferes with the enjoyment of the countryside and exposes me to becoming a quadriplegic.


47 posted on 06/02/2014 10:32:04 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: Baynative

Ahh, let’s not forget the design, testing and subsequent certification costs...

Thanks!


48 posted on 06/02/2014 10:34:10 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian

I knew a youngster, who grew up with my sons, that misunderstood the protection a helmet could afford. He had a dirt bike. On his 14th birthday he got a new state of the art helmet and proceeded to go out later in the day and attempt to street race another kid who was in a car. He lost it on the road and died, probably thinking his new helmet made him safer.

Over 25 years ago and I remember it all too well.


49 posted on 06/02/2014 10:37:59 AM PDT by KC Burke (Gowdy for Supreme Court)
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To: KC Burke

Sad...I just don’t know what else to say to that, except there are crashes where even a suit of armor might not be enough.


50 posted on 06/02/2014 11:19:09 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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