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Vet Could Lose Home For Displaying Small US Flag In Front Yard
CBS Tampa ^

Posted on 06/27/2014 6:06:29 AM PDT by Enlightened1

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (CBS Tampa) – A veteran could lose his home because of a small American flag he has placed in a flower pot in front of his home.

(Excerpt) Read more at tampa.cbslocal.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: display; fl; flag; florida; hoa; home; oldglory; vet
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1 posted on 06/27/2014 6:06:29 AM PDT by Enlightened1
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To: Enlightened1

I don’t care. He’s an idiot. He signed onto that neighborhood and as I understand it there are ways he is allowed to display the flag. Next he’ll want to display faded plastic flowers and whirligigs. Then we’ll start putting out dozens of naked plastic baby dolls like a weirdo in my community.


2 posted on 06/27/2014 6:08:41 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

Oh Lord we have one of those.

I tend to agree with you. Just because you are waving a flag, etc. doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow the rules. They aren’t draconian. There is nothing wrong with them. And while I am no fan of Homeowners Associations you live there, and you need to follow the regs.


3 posted on 06/27/2014 6:10:35 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Mercat
Did you see this part?

““I want it to go away. It’s such a minor little thing and they keep coming after me,” Murphree told WAWS. “They just sent me a letter that says I owe them around $8,000 and they put a foreclosure lien on my house.”

4 posted on 06/27/2014 6:10:55 AM PDT by Enlightened1
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To: Mercat

Free the Pink Flamingos.


5 posted on 06/27/2014 6:10:57 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Enlightened1
HOAs are evil. If you don't want to obey the rules of an evil HOA don't purchase property subject to an evil HOA. By purchasing property subject to an evil HOA you are saying you will obey the evil HOA. Did I mention that HOAs are evil?
6 posted on 06/27/2014 6:11:27 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: Enlightened1

Becoming a member of an HOA community is basically indentured servitude. I would NEVER advise “buying” one of these properties - EVER. (Because you don’t really own it.)


7 posted on 06/27/2014 6:13:18 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: RIghtwardHo
I don't think a Vet should loose his home because he put 1 small American flag in a flower pot....

You know that's overkill by an over zealous HOA. The guy has 30 days to pay 8k or he will lose his home.

Good grief that's ridiculous!

8 posted on 06/27/2014 6:15:38 AM PDT by Enlightened1
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To: fwdude

This is a scam....the HOA responded to the first press comment and noted it had nothing to do with the flag. It had to do with his not paying his association monthly assessments according to them.

Their argument seems logical to me.


9 posted on 06/27/2014 6:16:05 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: Mercat

-——whirligigs——

Ahh whirligigs. My neighbor seems obsessed with them. At first they seemed tasteful, but with the increasing number tasteless.

It seems that when going to buy them, perhaps three must be purchased. But lo, there are different sizes and different colors and soon....... there are whirligigs everywhere.

Fortunately, July is coming and with it thunderstorms and high winds.


10 posted on 06/27/2014 6:16:15 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I once worked for an HOA management company, and I agree with you that HOA's are evil. But people who buy into them are culpable for, of their own free will, selling their property rights and freedom for a little security and uniformity. It's not worth it.

I can't tell you how many people go into these purchase deals absolutely blind to all that is involved, and then become shocked when they have to pay dues and follow the often stringent rules. One girl called not knowing that she had to pay dues, several thousand dollars per year. It made her home purchase unaffordable.

11 posted on 06/27/2014 6:17:29 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: Paladin2

Can we stop with the fake wells while we’re at it? We have owners around the corner who think it is cute to keep a skeleton hanging by the front door throughout the year. They dress it up differently for each season. It was never funny, but apparently the joke never ever gets old for them. We get it.


12 posted on 06/27/2014 6:17:51 AM PDT by Phillyred
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To: Enlightened1
You know that's overkill by an over zealous HOA. The guy has 30 days to pay 8k or he will lose his home.

Good grief that's ridiculous!

But it's all in writing, signed by the homeowner. Sorry, but if contracts are to mean anything in this nation, we have to begin to honor them, even when they seem unfair.

Language in HOA contracts is very specific and unambiguous. Otherwise, these communities would have no leg to stand on.

13 posted on 06/27/2014 6:20:26 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: Mercat; All
He signed onto that neighborhood and as I understand it there are ways he is allowed to display the flag.

NERDY HALL MONITOR ALERT.

Everyone, let's tackle him and give him a Wedgie!

14 posted on 06/27/2014 6:23:21 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: bert

Actually, I’ve heard that whirligigs breed and multiply in the night. Whirligigs infestations are common in condo complexes.


15 posted on 06/27/2014 6:23:44 AM PDT by super7man
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To: Mouton

I know that the HOA is probably on solid ground here. I’m just addressing the issue of HOA’s in general. They are on the deed of homes as the owners if the homeowner breaks the rules, and can eventually foreclose on the home if violations are not remedied.


16 posted on 06/27/2014 6:23:51 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: fwdude
I can't tell you how many people go into these purchase deals absolutely blind to all that is involved, and then become shocked when they have to pay dues and follow the often stringent rules.

That's pretty understandable actually. Around here the HOAs will not let you see the agreement until you are at the closing. It's pretty much too late at that point to turn back. We walked away from a couple of properties because I wasn't going to get myself in that position.

17 posted on 06/27/2014 6:28:29 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Then you are one of the smart ones. Most people have no business assuming the responsibility of home ownership if they won’t even read the controlling documents.


18 posted on 06/27/2014 6:30:42 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: fwdude

No problem with your comments, I was addressing he headline.

I just got into a spat with mine, I had to remove about 8 dangerous diseased trees near my residence and was noted by the HOA that I had violated the CandRs by not getting approval from the architectural board before doing that. My response is I don’t see the connection between removing trees and architectural changes beyond the fact had these trees fell on my home I would have a remodel resulting in rubble. No answer yet to my comment.

In almost all developments here these days, HOAs are mandatory due to requirments to maintain water run off and to accomodate “state and county land use standards”. Unfortunately, as you and others note, these frequently become the vehicles where petty individuals decide to become lord and kings.


19 posted on 06/27/2014 6:37:21 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: Enlightened1
Florida statute 720.304 section 2a states that “Any homeowner may display one portable, removable United States flag…in a respectful manner…not larger than 4 1/2 feet by 6 feet…regardless of any covenants, restrictions, bylaws, rules, or requirements of the [homeowners'] association.”

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/veteran-may-lose-home-over-flag-fight/ngRCt/

20 posted on 06/27/2014 6:37:46 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Then don’t buy into a housing area with a HOA. Simple.


21 posted on 06/27/2014 7:01:51 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
HOAs are evil. If you don't want to obey the rules of an evil HOA don't purchase property subject to an evil HOA. By purchasing property subject to an evil HOA you are saying you will obey the evil HOA. Did I mention that HOAs are evil?

Well said.

22 posted on 06/27/2014 7:08:30 AM PDT by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: Mouton

Except the homeowner has bank statements showing regular automatic withdrawals of the HOA fees.

So the scam is being perpetrated by the HOA. It appears to me that they have rewritten their flag rules after losing the first time in court, then used the new rules to levy fines against the homeowner, applied his auto deducts to the fines and are now claiming he hasn’t paid his contractual fees so that they can strip him of his ownership rights.

It’s a scam alright.


23 posted on 06/27/2014 7:25:58 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Enlightened1
The HOA needs to familiarize themselves with Florida Statutes and the homeowner needs to remind his lawyer of the following:

720.304 Right of owners to peaceably assemble; display of flag; SLAPP suits prohibited.

(2)(a) Any homeowner may display one portable, removable United States flag or official flag of the State of Florida in a respectful manner, and one portable, removable official flag, in a respectful manner, not larger than 41/2 feet by 6 feet, which represents the United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard, or a POW-MIA flag, regardless of any covenants, restrictions, bylaws, rules, or requirements of the association.

(b) Any homeowner may erect a freestanding flagpole no more than 20 feet high on any portion of the homeowner’s real property, regardless of any covenants, restrictions, bylaws, rules, or requirements of the association, if the flagpole does not obstruct sightlines at intersections and is not erected within or upon an easement. The homeowner may further display in a respectful manner from that flagpole, regardless of any covenants, restrictions, bylaws, rules, or requirements of the association, one official United States flag, not larger than 41/2 feet by 6 feet, and may additionally display one official flag of the State of Florida or the United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coast Guard, or a POW-MIA flag. Such additional flag must be equal in size to or smaller than the United States flag. The flagpole and display are subject to all building codes, zoning setbacks, and other applicable governmental regulations, including, but not limited to, noise and lighting ordinances in the county or municipality in which the flagpole is erected and all setback and locational criteria contained in the governing documents.

(c) This subsection applies to all community development districts and homeowners’ associations, regardless of whether such homeowners’ associations are authorized to impose assessments that may become a lien on the parcel.

(3) Any owner prevented from exercising rights guaranteed by subsection (1) or subsection (2) may bring an action in the appropriate court of the county in which the alleged infringement occurred, and, upon favorable adjudication, the court shall enjoin the enforcement of any provision contained in any homeowners’ association document or rule that operates to deprive the owner of such rights.

end snip


24 posted on 06/27/2014 7:29:08 AM PDT by deport
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To: Enlightened1

It is my understanding that an HOA can’t take the house, but they can prevent it from being sold/transferred to a new owner until the debt is settled. So, if this guy hasn’t paid his HOA fees, one it takes years to it to get to this stage and two he brought this upon himself for non-payment. Appears that it is not about the flag at all. If that were the case he could have switched it to a non American flag and then challenged them when and if they didn’t make him switch it.


25 posted on 06/27/2014 7:32:12 AM PDT by Cyclone59 (Where are we going, and what's with the handbasket?)
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To: fwdude
My son, the lawyer who knows everything, says there has never been a contract that couldn't be gotten out of.

Perhaps that is a good thing.

You who think this vet should lose his home over the stupidity of this are a bit draconian yourselves.

One really bad aspect of HOAs is that you MAY AGREE WITH PRESENT RULES, BUT THEY CAN CHANGE AT THE NEXT HOA MEETING.

My mother had a Lauderdale condo on the ocean, and when she bought it owner's could rent out seasonally, as that didn't cause too much coming and going of new people. But the owners who lived there year round changed it to no rental, period. My mother, on a very small fixed income needed to rent seasonally, was out of luck and had to sell.

vaudine

26 posted on 06/27/2014 7:36:53 AM PDT by vaudine
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To: vaudine
My son, the lawyer who knows everything, says there has never been a contract that couldn't be gotten out of.

Unless it is by mutual agreement, this is what is wrong with our country. If we can't rely on each other's word (a contract) we are done as a civilization.

Is your son a defense attorney, but any chance?

27 posted on 06/27/2014 7:43:56 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: fwdude; vaudine

“Is your son a defense attorney, but any chance? “

Or a democrat? (I know, I know. . .)


28 posted on 06/27/2014 7:53:14 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: Enlightened1

ANYONE who buys a home under a homeowners association has got to be a gluten for punishment. These association’s are run by little tin dictators who wallow in their own self importance and expect to be catered to and fawned over or you are on their shi* list.


29 posted on 06/27/2014 8:06:02 AM PDT by chiefqc
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To: Enlightened1

We once lived in a bedroom community where all but two neighborhoods had HOAs.

They started as HOA neighborhoods, but the residents voted them out.


30 posted on 06/27/2014 8:20:39 AM PDT by Suz in AZ
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To: Straight Vermonter
We walked away from a couple of properties because I wasn't going to get myself in that position.

We told our agent we didn't even want to look at houses with HOAs.

It is getting harder and harder to find new houses that don't have them. You can't even buy a new house in the town I live in without having to sign away your right to free association.

 

31 posted on 06/27/2014 8:31:00 AM PDT by zeugma (It is time for us to start playing cowboys and muslims for real now.)
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To: fwdude
The secret is relying on each others word. So many companies have such long wordy contracts that the average person goes cross eyed and glazed trying to read and end up relying on exactly what you say must be in effect--relying on the other's word. Or they must have a lawyer to read everything they sign.

Therefore, there are MANY unreasonable conditions set out in many contracts that are CHANGED from what has been SAID by only one word or small phrase. So although you may think caveat emptor always applies, as a matter of simple fact, it cannot always.

To say an unwary person must comply with the unreasonable because they signed on the dotted line is to give all the breaks to unscrupulous business people.

vaudine

32 posted on 06/27/2014 8:49:59 AM PDT by vaudine
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To: Hulka
He handles most everything except real estate sales. At one time he did those almost exclusively, but took so much time and keeping up with new regs, etc. he gave it up in order to do more of a variety.

He is an excellent defense lawyer. I facetiously say "he knows everything", because sometimes he gets a little pompous and acts like he does. As his mother, it is my job to let him know when he acts that way.

vaudine

33 posted on 06/27/2014 8:54:41 AM PDT by vaudine
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To: Cyclone59

He did pay his fees and can prove it. The HOA is applying his fees towards the fines they imposed for his alleged violations of HOA rules regarding the flag flying.

So it is kinda about the flag, but really about power. The HOA is trying to pull a fast one. If state law trumps HOA rules, then the fines are specious. Whoever runs the HOA just wants to force the guy out for challenging their authority. I suspect they are trying the unpaid fees ploy to distract voting HOA members because the only thing worse than a dictatorial HOA manager is a member who shirks the membership fees.


34 posted on 06/27/2014 9:01:52 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: vaudine
To say an unwary person must comply with the unreasonable because they signed on the dotted line is to give all the breaks to unscrupulous business people.

Then that is an open license to invalidate any contract. Do we want that?

35 posted on 06/27/2014 9:06:56 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: Mercat

Yea, just private property rights are so 18th century. You own the property, you SHOULD be able to do anything you want. If not, then you don’t own squat.

HOA’s should be illegal.


36 posted on 06/27/2014 9:58:31 AM PDT by packrat35 (Pelosi is only on loan to the world from Satan. Hopefully he will soon want his baby killer back)
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To: chiefqc

Read this whole thread and you’ll find many of them here.


37 posted on 06/27/2014 10:02:21 AM PDT by packrat35 (Pelosi is only on loan to the world from Satan. Hopefully he will soon want his baby killer back)
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To: fwdude
No! Of course it is not a license to invalidate. If the contract was understood and perfectly explained, then it either stands or goes to negotiation.

If something has happened to the source of income of the buyer, and he/she can't pay, then something has to give--thus negotiations.

vaudine

38 posted on 06/27/2014 1:05:54 PM PDT by vaudine
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To: vaudine

Well, the negotiations are usually spelled out in the contract. In the case of a loss of income, usually a foreclosure on the home (after an extended time of due process - believe me.)


39 posted on 06/27/2014 1:17:33 PM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: Straight Vermonter
Around here the HOAs will not let you see the agreement until you are at the closing.

Make your offer subject to reviewing and approving the current HOA agreement during the attorney review. If the seller wants to sell, he will provide it.

40 posted on 06/27/2014 2:57:51 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Hulka

I wouldn’t buy into an HOA if you gavee the money. I have a freedom streak that drones would not abide and I sure the hell wouldn’t abide wannabe fascists telling me what I can or can not do on my property.


41 posted on 06/27/2014 3:05:23 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

Good for you. . .

I won’t have a neighbor ruin my property values by putting old rusting junk cars in their front yard, have chickens running around, have many illegal aliens move in and trash the yard and home.

Yes, had that happen and the HOA took action and cleaned it up and while they have a right to live the way they want, if they choose to live in an HOA settlement, play by the rules. . .unless they are democrats and its all about me-me-me and not the community.


42 posted on 06/27/2014 6:34:50 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: Paladin2
Free the Pink Flamingos.

I've thought of adding these to my front yard as a silent response to a particularly annoying neighbor.


43 posted on 06/27/2014 6:39:52 PM PDT by lonevoice (Life is short. Make fun of it.)
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To: Hulka

Enjoy the commune.


44 posted on 06/27/2014 6:48:58 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Enlightened1

ridiculous


45 posted on 06/27/2014 6:49:56 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

HOA’s are evil and should probably be banned or at least greatly restricted


46 posted on 06/27/2014 6:51:10 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: fwdude

Nobody should ever be forced to join an HOA. The HOA doesn’t own the house. A new owner should have a choice on whether to join.


47 posted on 06/27/2014 6:52:18 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: thackney

#20-

In other words this guy should sue the HOA


48 posted on 06/27/2014 6:53:01 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL
HOAs are evil, but people who want to belong to one should be free to engage in whatever contract the HOA proffers. Or not.
49 posted on 06/27/2014 6:55:49 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

If I buy a house and do not want to join an HOA, I should be free to do so. I should not be forced to join one just because the last homeowner did.


50 posted on 06/27/2014 6:57:21 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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