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NM ranching family tells feds: ĎDonít fence us outí
New Mexico Watchdog ^ | July 3, 2014 | Rob Nikolewski

Posted on 07/03/2014 9:51:37 PM PDT by george76

Last month, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service listed the meadow jumping mouse as an endangered species. Now, the U.S. Forest Service, which oversees the Santa Fe National Forest, is considering erecting a series of 8-foot high fences to protect the mouse’s habitat.

The Luceros, members of the San Diego Cattleman’s Association and holders of grazing permits with the federal government, say the fences will lock out their cattle — as well as those of other permit holders — from ever returning to the meadow where the livestock graze for 20 days in the spring and up to 40 days in the fall.

...

the mouse is active three to four months out of the year and spends the rest of its time hibernating.

...

Some 275 miles south, in Otero County, the Forest Service reinforced locked gates to keep out cattle from a creek called the Agua Chiquita to protect the mouse’s habitat. .. An attorney for Otero County says the state of New Mexico – not the federal government – has the right to access to the water to the creek and a lawsuit may be in the offing.

While the locked gate in the Otero County controversy keeps out only cattle, the Luceros complain 8-foot fencing in the Forest Service proposal in the Santa Fe Forest would keep out just about all forms of wildlife, including elk.

(Excerpt) Read more at watchdog.org ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: Colorado; US: District of Columbia; US: Idaho; US: New Mexico; US: Texas; US: Utah; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: agenda21; agriculture; animalrights; ar; blm; bundy; bundyranch; corruption; endangered; endangeredspecies; energy; epa; esa; farming; farmland; forestservice; gas; govtabuse; greenagenda; jumpingmouse; meadowmouse; mouse; ranch; ruralcleansing; sagebrushrebellion; species; un21; unagenda21; usfs; usfws; water; waterrights
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1 posted on 07/03/2014 9:51:37 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76

How are the cattle going to bother a mouse that is hibernating?


2 posted on 07/03/2014 9:53:48 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: george76

Bundy Ranch 2.0

Dont dare try it fed scum.


3 posted on 07/03/2014 9:55:20 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: george76

So the government knows what a fence is. Is this an invasive species they are protecting?


4 posted on 07/03/2014 9:57:13 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: CedarDave; jazusamo; Flycatcher; SierraWasp; TEXOKIE; Cindy; girlangler; Inyo-Mono; Baynative; ...

The feds can build fences to protect mice and cut off
grazing land / water for cattle, but cannot build a fence to protect our borders ?

Water rights are owned by the landowners as determined by state water courts, etc. ?


5 posted on 07/03/2014 9:57:52 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

I’d be curious to know who the Luceros voted for in 2012. I wonder whether they did the same thing as the Punjabi family Victor David Hanson knows in California:

http://www.hughhewitt.com/victor-davis-hansons-assessment-america-world-today-obamas-policies/


6 posted on 07/03/2014 10:10:44 PM PDT by Cap Huff
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To: Viennacon

“Bundy Ranch 2.0 Dont dare try it fed scum.”

It appears such is what ‘they’ actually want. I do not think ‘they’ will be unprepared again. Holder re-activated the group responsible for bringing us Waco and Ruby Ridge.


7 posted on 07/03/2014 10:12:08 PM PDT by Carthego delenda est
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To: smokingfrog

“How are the cattle going to bother a mouse that is hibernating?”

Moo too loudly and wake him up.


8 posted on 07/03/2014 10:14:28 PM PDT by Graybeard58 ( What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 1 Cor. 13, V.36)
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To: george76

mouse gets better treatment than the veterans at the VA....


9 posted on 07/03/2014 10:15:33 PM PDT by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: smokingfrog
How are the cattle going to bother a mouse that is hibernating?

I don't think you're clear on the atual purpose of the Endangered Species Act...

(Hint: the actual endangered species are irrelevent)

10 posted on 07/03/2014 10:18:25 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: george76

I think the EPA thinks they have control over every water puddle from coast to coast.


11 posted on 07/03/2014 10:24:52 PM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604

http://netrightdaily.com/2012/07/landowner-engages-in-clean-water-act-receives-epa-fine/

Yes they do. And they are trying to get it into new regulations even more specifically.


12 posted on 07/03/2014 10:29:13 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Graybeard58

Now that makes perfect sense!


13 posted on 07/03/2014 10:29:59 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: george76

Turn loose a whole bunch of cats, mice gone, problem solved.


14 posted on 07/03/2014 10:52:33 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: 21twelve

This is an agency created in 1970 by Nixon. What constitutional power do they have ?


15 posted on 07/03/2014 10:53:44 PM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: All
Interesting, the University of Michigan says that they are not endangered...

http://www.biokids.umich.edu/critters/Zapus_hudsonius/

and the Adirondack Ecological Center says they live lots of places -

Range and Habitat: The range is the southern half of Alaska, most of Canada, and the eastern two-thirds of the U.S. excluding much of the South. In the Adirondack Park, the meadow jumping mouse occurs from elevations to 700 m (2300 ft), and occasionally to 1220 m (4000 ft), in grassy shrubby sites such as meadows, fields, forest clearings and edges; the edges of swamps, marshes, and bogs. This species is especially abundant where ground cover is thick. The meadow jumping mouse builds nests of plant fibers 10-15 cm (4-6 in) in diameter, in clumps of grass, within the bases of hollow trees, in and under hollow logs, and underground to depths of 1 m (3 ft).

16 posted on 07/03/2014 11:13:28 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: smokingfrog

It reminds me of the Aplomado hawk. They made a rancher cover all his waters so they didn’t drown (Roll eyes) and he had to remove all his cattle when the birds were breeding. What happened, the adults abandoned their nests and followed the cattle.

These people are so stupid. Open bodies of water are natural and birds don’t drown unless something odd happens to them and any good rancher has a couple of 2x4s floating in the water tanks for bees and birds.

The reason these animals are there is because they have thrived there historically WITH cattle for a hundred years.


17 posted on 07/03/2014 11:25:04 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Nowhere Man

“Turn loose a whole bunch of cats, mice gone, problem solved.”

I’m sorry to say this, but you’ve missed the point entirely!


18 posted on 07/03/2014 11:51:01 PM PDT by jocon307 (These people are (some Polish word) crazy)
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To: Nowhere Man

Cats. That’s a great idea. Everyone should take cats from places where the are going to be killed anyway and any extra cats they can find and take them down to the jumping mouse villages and turn them loose.


19 posted on 07/04/2014 12:07:42 AM PDT by Octar
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To: george76

This story is bogus. I have been told that building a fence is an impossibility for the government.

Moderator please remove this specious post!


20 posted on 07/04/2014 12:18:17 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: george76

Fences for the jumping mouse but not for our own border...


21 posted on 07/04/2014 4:32:40 AM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: george76

This nation has gone completely crazy! We can build an 8-foot-high fence to protect a mouse, but we can’t build a fence to protect our border? Hang it up - the United States as we knew it is gone. We’ve been brought down by evil craziness.


22 posted on 07/04/2014 4:49:55 AM PDT by abclily
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To: george76

That’s our govt for us. They will build a fence to protect a fricken mouse, but not one to protect our country. I am going to round up a bunch of cat and take them on a field trip to help out with this mouse problem. Besides aren’t the Fish and Wildlife Nazis busy harassing collectors and musician that have ivory in things like old clocks, pianos and bows for string instruments.


23 posted on 07/04/2014 5:03:28 AM PDT by Cyclone59 (Where are we going, and what's with the handbasket?)
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To: Octar
Cats. That’s a great idea. Everyone should take cats from places where the are going to be killed anyway and any extra cats they can find and take them down to the jumping mouse villages and turn them loose.

After they do their job, adopt the cats out, being the cat lover I am.
24 posted on 07/04/2014 8:22:58 AM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: jocon307

?


25 posted on 07/04/2014 8:25:23 AM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: george76

There are no threatened mice in New Mexico.

Other than the too-many Democrats, leftists, liberals, and GOPe.

In both cases, mice are flourishing in New Mexico.


26 posted on 07/04/2014 8:30:30 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: george76
Last month, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service listed the meadow jumping mouse as an endangered species.

Are there actual criteria these people use to make these listings, or do they just pull the findings out of their asses at the behest of environ-MENTAL groups?

27 posted on 07/04/2014 8:53:20 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Border Crisis = Cloward-Piven, Chicano-style!)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Maybe there is a village full of illegal children in the designated area . . .


28 posted on 07/04/2014 8:54:33 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Border Crisis = Cloward-Piven, Chicano-style!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

UN Agenda 21 is their plan.

The fake issue ( mouse, fish, bird, worm ... ) has nothing to do with the real issue.


29 posted on 07/04/2014 8:58:42 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Octar
Right, genius. Take cats used to being in homes and turn them loose outside in unfamiliar territory. So they can be prey for coyotes, thirst for water, get bitten by snakes and victimized by fleas and ticks. Oh, and eat things other than the mice.

The whole point is to save the mice lest yet another species goes extinct. But fencing out the cattle is a dumb idea as to how to go about it.

30 posted on 07/04/2014 9:12:16 AM PDT by EinNYC
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To: Nowhere Man

Plenty of Rattlesnakes in New Mexico that dine on these sleeping rodents.


31 posted on 07/04/2014 2:16:55 PM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: EinNYC

Well, when you put it that way, I withdraw my idea of putting cats out there. It would hurt me to see them succumb to coyotes, rattlers and dehydration. I love my two cats very much. Still it was just an idea, brainstorming if you will, putting the idea out for discussion and debate.


32 posted on 07/04/2014 4:25:46 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: hattend

There ya go, leave the mice to the rattlers. BTW, many other snakes would eat them too, most non-venomous snakes would constrict them before eating them.


33 posted on 07/04/2014 4:26:48 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: Nowhere Man
No prob, Nowhere Man. I love MY two cats to little bitty pieces, too. I would not dream of putting them outside to catch diseases, get run over, get caught and tortured by sickos, become Chinese cuisine, etc. Anyone who would even look cross-eyed at them had better duck.

Those mice are part of the ecosystem. They belong there. If they can get along with the cattle--and I can't think of a reason they should not--then there shouldn't be a problem. I think the corrupt Feds are just trying to use the mouse as an excuse to harass ranchers. They probably have a chart and a map---"Gee, we want to shut down Rancher Jones and take over his land. What endangered species live on his land that we could use to effect a takeover, to 'protect' the critter?" They are lower than the meanest rattler's belly!

34 posted on 07/04/2014 5:18:49 PM PDT by EinNYC
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To: george76; LegendHasIt; leapfrog0202; Santa Fe_Conservative; DesertDreamer; OneWingedShark; ...
The ABQ Journal has a lengthy article about this except it features threats to ranchers in the Jemez Mountains of northern New Mexico

Endangered mouse may cost NM ranchers their livelihood

NM list PING!

I may not PING for all New Mexico articles. To see New Mexico articles by topic click here: New Mexico Topics

To see NM articles by keyword, click here: New Mexico Keywords

To see the NM Message Page, click here: New Mexico Messages

(The NM list is available on my FR homepage for anyone to use. Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from the list.)
(For ABQ Journal articles requiring a subscription, scroll down to the bottom of the page to view the article for free after answering a question or watching a short video commercial.)

35 posted on 07/04/2014 6:41:10 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: CedarDave

Ive got some mice they can have


36 posted on 07/04/2014 6:44:12 PM PDT by woofie
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To: george76

Whoops! The posted article is about Jemez ranchers. Sorry about that! (But very glad the ABQ Journal picked it up too.)


37 posted on 07/04/2014 6:48:28 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: george76
“We’re not against it,” Orlando Lucero, whose family has ranched on land in the Jemez Mountains near Valles Caldera since the 1800s, said of designating the mouse as endangered. “If it’s endangered, let’s protect it. But let’s do it right. There’s not only one way to do it.”

And while ranchers say their livelihoods may be threatened, they shouldn’t be the only ones concerned. Anyone who hunts, fishes, or enjoys camping at the nearby San Antonio Campground will be impacted, they say.

Knowing northern NM as I do, any fences put up by the Forest Service that serve to keep out humans won't last long. As the article says, the locals have been there for hundreds of years and won't take kindly to the feds and city environmentalists keeping them out.

38 posted on 07/04/2014 6:53:21 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: CedarDave

Knowing northern NM as I do, any fences put up by the Forest Service that serve to keep out humans won’t last long. As the article says, the locals have been there for hundreds of years and won’t take kindly to the feds and city environmentalists keeping them out.


Exactly. Almost every pickup coming down out of the hills had a deer under the wood as I remember.


39 posted on 07/04/2014 8:57:59 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: smokingfrog
How are the cattle going to bother a mouse that is hibernating?

The cattle probably improve the habitat for mice. How is the FWS going to keep it endangered that way?

40 posted on 07/05/2014 9:34:51 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: Rusty0604
What constitutional power do they have ?

The ESA cites a host of treaties held at the UN for its statutory authority.

41 posted on 07/05/2014 9:48:10 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: tiki
These people are so stupid.

No they're not. The budget to manage "recovery" is non-discretionary. Maintaining the mouse in its endangered status is job-security.

42 posted on 07/05/2014 9:49:38 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Are there actual criteria these people use to make these listings, or do they just pull the findings out of their asses at the behest of environ-MENTAL groups?

The law requires "the best available science." The bureaucrats then go about defining what that is in such a way that they can do as you suggested.

43 posted on 07/05/2014 9:51:27 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: EinNYC
The whole point is to save the mice lest yet another species goes extinct. But fencing out the cattle is a dumb idea as to how to go about it.

That is the ostensible point. The real point is to get the American public off Federal lands to become a bureaucratic fiefdom under the control of those who own feedlots and their suppliers.

44 posted on 07/05/2014 9:53:06 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: laplata
Knowing northern NM as I do, any fences put up by the Forest Service that serve to keep out humans won’t last long.

Reflectometry says those days are numbered.

45 posted on 07/05/2014 9:55:07 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: Carry_Okie

What is Reflectometry?


46 posted on 07/05/2014 10:08:20 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: laplata
What is Reflectometry?

It is how power companies pinpoint a line break from the office. They send a pulse down the line and if the return waves bouncing off the various resistances changes, especially if the signal reflects off an open circuit, they can use the timing of the reflection to tell them where it is.

47 posted on 07/05/2014 10:15:10 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Thanks for that info.

Reflectometry, in northern New Mexico would be looked upon as another stupid idea the Gringos came up with and ignore it or shoot out power lines.


48 posted on 07/05/2014 10:26:23 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: laplata
Reflectometry, in northern New Mexico would be looked upon as another stupid idea the Gringos came up with and ignore it or shoot out power lines.

Been there, many times and I've heard the bravado you express before too, and in communities that have since been destroyed. Once the welfare dependents and bureaucrats outnumber the working residents, that picture starts to change. Give it ten years and you won't recognize the place unless you win the battle the right way.

49 posted on 07/06/2014 7:13:00 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (ObamaCare IS Medicaid: They'll pull a sheet over your head and send you the bill.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Good points. El Rito, north of Abiquiu, for instance, is now basically a liberal/progressive enclave. The government is their god.


50 posted on 07/06/2014 8:11:36 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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