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Report from Slaviansk

Posted on 07/29/2014 6:59:33 AM PDT by aardwolf46

Something I noticed on youtube and was about a month old when MH17 was shot down, this account seems to be severely at odds with much of what we see in the MSM....

Report from Slaviansk

This makes several claims I've seen of Ukrainian fighter-bombers hiding behind airliners and then peeling off to bomb separatist targets. The basic bottom line wrt MH17 seems to be that Ukrainian air traffic controllers routed it into a war zone and ordered it to drop altitude, i.e. set it up like a skeet target. The question of who actually shot it down seems fairly irrelevant.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; ukraine

1 posted on 07/29/2014 6:59:34 AM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: aardwolf46
Be prepared to take alot of incoming fire for not towing the party line.

Here's some more reading material. 10 more questions Russian military pose to Ukraine, US over MH17 crash

2 posted on 07/29/2014 7:07:23 AM PDT by McGruff (Ukrainian rebels just want to be free to choose their own destiny. Do you support Freedom?)
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To: aardwolf46

Great post. Direct information from citizens that live there needs to get out to the world.

The attacks will continue until the links to globalism become very well-publicized.

Then globalism will back off and hide and try other ways to get the citizens of that area to give in to globalism and join the EU.


3 posted on 07/29/2014 7:08:15 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: McGruff
Be prepared to take alot of incoming fire for not towing the Communist party line.

there...I fixed it for you comrade McGruff

4 posted on 07/29/2014 7:09:27 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: PieterCasparzen

If these claims are believable and if I had to bet it I’d bet that they were, then the Ukrainians are basically doing the same sort of thing which Hamas does only worse. I haven’t seen any reports of Hamas terrorists walking straight up to attack IDF soldiers with kids in front of them...


5 posted on 07/29/2014 7:12:59 AM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: lormand

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe TWA800 was downed by a center fuel tank explosion? I don’t.


6 posted on 07/29/2014 7:16:13 AM PDT by McGruff (Ukrainian rebels just want to be free to choose their own destiny. Do you support Freedom?)
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To: aardwolf46

Those Ukrainian citizens should take heart.

And they must get their real stories like this one out on the internet or spread information other ways.

We blew the lid off the new world order (globalist) operations in Libya and Syria, we can do the same regarding their operation in Ukraine.

Many, many Americans are learning that this Ukraine operation is a globalist operation, they should post as much as they can here on FR and other websites factual information as they find it.

I’ve posted numerous times over the past year about the big-money globalism that has been working towards “assimilating” Ukraine since 1991.

Ukrainians should be aware that American small business is generally very, very good, but American big business is globlism. Globalism also includes UK and Europe big business, as well as quasi-international organizations like the World Bank and IMF. They should run from these organizations and businesses like the plague and push them out of their country entirely. They should instead invest in themselves - be their own financing. If they want business advice, get it directly from American small business - not Wall Street.


7 posted on 07/29/2014 7:16:32 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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I’m wondering if the shirtless photos of Putin have gotten the best of some of our fallen members here on FreeRepublic?


8 posted on 07/29/2014 7:17:24 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: aardwolf46

Must the the latest Soviet spin..

Did I say Soviet? I meant Russian


9 posted on 07/29/2014 7:18:14 AM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: aardwolf46

So I guess you missed this from that place and that day:

About three hours later, at 4:18 p.m.... the Buk’s crew snapped to attention when a spotter called in a report of an incoming airplane.

“A bird is flying to you,” the spotter tells the rebel.

The man identified as Bezler responds: “Reconnaissance plane or a big one?”

“I can’t see behind the clouds. Too high,” the spotter replies.

The rebel official who spoke to the AP about the incident said that Bezler commanded another fighter, code-named Sapper, who was the ranking rebel officer with the missile launcher at the time.

At 4:40 p.m., in another intercepted call released by Ukraine, the man identified as Bezler tells his own superior that the unit had shot down a plane.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3185603/posts

Would the words “I can’t see behind the clouds — TOO HIGH” indicate a lower flying military plane or higher flying commercial one???

If there was a lower flying military one wouldn’t they have seen it and targeted it???


10 posted on 07/29/2014 7:20:42 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: aardwolf46

What is alarmingly clear is that the western media have dropped all pretense of impartiality as it regards events in Ukraine and are active participants in the US government’s propaganda campaign against Russia.


11 posted on 07/29/2014 7:21:10 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: McGruff
"Let me ask you a question. Do you believe TWA800 was downed by a center fuel tank explosion? I don’t."

Getting shifty on the subject now eh? I can tell by your response/question that it would be a waste of my time to try to engage you and other Putin-lovers in a thoughtful debate.

Since you guys are 'dead-enders' on this subject, I'd rather have fun mocking your positions.

12 posted on 07/29/2014 7:24:48 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: lormand
One more question for you.

What if Texas decided it had had enough of Obama's America and declared itself to be a separate Republic. Would you support the US bombing it back into submission? I ask because that's essentially going on in Ukraine.

13 posted on 07/29/2014 7:25:38 AM PDT by McGruff (Ukrainian rebels just want to be free to choose their own destiny. Do you support Freedom?)
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To: PieterCasparzen
"We blew the lid off the new world order (globalist) operations in Libya and Syria, we can do the same regarding their operation in Ukraine."

...sigh...when will there be a Ron Paul robot purge on this forum?

14 posted on 07/29/2014 7:31:57 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: aardwolf46; McGruff
Since 2014-06-23

Welcome to FreeRepublic -- something probably foreign to you.

Will you be staying long???

BTW say "Hello" for me to McGruff in the cubicle behind you.

15 posted on 07/29/2014 7:32:40 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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Year Long FReepathons!
Sound Good?
No?


Click The Pic To Donate

DONATE

16 posted on 07/29/2014 7:33:12 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: aardwolf46

Russian propaganda alert.


17 posted on 07/29/2014 7:33:34 AM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: PieterCasparzen; All

Simon Ostrovsky, the pro-UK VICE News reporter that was held by the Donetsk rebels two months ago, that created such a big media stink in the west, created a Twitter Storm last night, by saying he was sick and tired of the lies coming out of Kiev, about not shelling civilian areas, and the rebels shelling their own people just to make Kiev look bad.

HE said, “It’s a Civil War, both sides are shelling each other, and civilians.”


18 posted on 07/29/2014 7:36:47 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip
You better dust off your Cold War bunker because Putin is going to come looking for you once he invades the US.
19 posted on 07/29/2014 7:37:04 AM PDT by McGruff (Was George Bush a Putinista?)
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To: PieterCasparzen
I’ve posted numerous times over the past year about the big-money globalism that has been working towards “assimilating” Ukraine since 1991.

Do you think that the Russian invasion of their country is driving them toward that assimilation???

And that if that Russian invasion stops then that assimilation will also stop.

20 posted on 07/29/2014 7:39:10 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

You are absolutely correct, but apparently not in the way you intend.

Russia has had it with an independent Ukraine and is systematically punishing them for not toeing the Russian line.

Finally, there are essentially no Ukrainian rebels. These “rebels” are overwhelmingly Russian, and by Russian I mean that they make their homes in the Russian Federation, not in Ukraine. Russian propaganda has taken a serious foothold on Free Republic, I am sad to say.


21 posted on 07/29/2014 7:39:20 AM PDT by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: McGruff
Sorry McGruff, but your question is so stupid, I would feel the same in answering it. The degree of which you are misinformed is incredible.

Lenin and Stalin thank you for your service.

22 posted on 07/29/2014 7:40:10 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: McGruff

Is that a threat, McGruff???


23 posted on 07/29/2014 7:40:12 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff
"You better dust off your Cold War bunker because Putin is going to come looking for you once he invades the US."

Putin will rely on comrades like yourself to hunt down the rebels in this country who oppose him. Not willing to beat them so join em huh?

24 posted on 07/29/2014 7:43:28 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: lormand

Sorry, lormond, the Pauls are “yet another new world order subterfuge” YANWOS(tm).

The Paulbots positions are:

a) legalize drugs (nwo IS the drug business, has been for centuries (Warren Delano, FDR’s grandpa, made his fortune in the Chinese Opium trade, as reported by the New York Times))

b) go on the “gold standard”, which will send the price of gold skyrocketing and more importantly keep the US Treasury borrowing, since it STILL would refrain from creating money, which is the right of ALL governments. NWO (elite international finance families) has had very good control over the commodities markets, especially precious metals, for centuries. These things are their “stock in trade”. It is impossible to out-trade someone in a market where their pockets are way deep than yours. Time and time again, elite finance has caused financial panics and they and their chosen friends, being well-financed by them, purchased enormous amounts of holdings at pennies on the dollar. The Pauls also present kind of a crazy, quirky political program, as it is combined with a lax attitude on illegal drugs. This keeps intelligent conservatives from supporting them, and they, being the biggest alternative to the Federal Reserve, thus keep intelligent conservatives from gaining any momentum on abolishing the Fed. It has turned into “audit” the Fed, which is meaningless, since all the accounting entries have been made, and so an audit would not turn up anything out of the ordinary. What’s out of the ordinary, of course, is the underlying fact that the US government has turned over the right to create money to the Fed, which means that the US government must borrow via international banking.

See, NWO is so pervasive in our society, it’s like the backdrop to everything we see. So we can’t see it. We refuse to admit that our view of the world might be wrong. So NWO stays comfortably hidden in plain sight.


25 posted on 07/29/2014 7:46:39 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: tcrlaf

The Ukrainian army is shelling the Russian rebels, who are hiding behind civilians, firing at them from apartments, and hiding their heavy armaments — like their BUK systems — between buildings in the middle of towns.

The Russian rebels are fighting like Hamas —


26 posted on 07/29/2014 7:50:29 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff
What if TX decided it had had enough of Obama's America and declared itself to be a separate Republic. Would you support the US bombing it back into submisson?

FWIW, when I asked the Kiev crowd that, they said yes. I would say no. I believe that people have an absolute right to vote themselves free of a government, as long as they have a plan for the future.

What if it's southern CA and AZ? If they get so hispanic that that's what they want, good riddance!

Ukraine is a coup gov with all of its support coming from the west. Of couse eastern Ukraine should have the right to set their own path. They aren't attacking outside their regions, they're defending from aggression by their supposed countrymen. Kiev bombing those who want to be free of Kiev with loans supplied to them by the EU/US and with surveillance from the US is disgusting.

(You pro-Kiev posters....this post should keep you busy for awhile!)

27 posted on 07/29/2014 7:53:13 AM PDT by grania
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To: Uncle Chip
It was a joke son, a joke. Like this one.

Looks like you better get a bigger bunker for when Putin invades, Russia’s Bunker-Smashing Rockets Have Arrived in Iraq.

28 posted on 07/29/2014 8:03:35 AM PDT by McGruff (Was George Bush a Putinista?)
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To: Uncle Chip

When I say “assimilation” I’m referring to things like the “European Bank for Reconstruction and Development”, the World Bank, the IMF, the US-Ukrainian Business Council, etc.

I’m referring to a few folks with long US State Dept/CIA backgrounds which went into private equity (I trust you know that this means business investment), which were operating in Ukraine since 1992.

Things like crop insurance are being pushed bigtime at the Ukrainian agriculture industry, notably with AIG as the driver, and the purpose of this is so that agricultural financing can be securitized and sold in world bond markets.

The push is by the Western “branch” of globalism to bring the “breadbasket” of Ukraine under the umbrella of Western banking and finance, to bring it into the geopolitical orbit of the EU - which will then subject Ukraine to EU Law. Yes, the EU, a supra-national body, imposes its laws on member nations. See, that’s an easy way for globalism to force a law on numerous nations all at once, saving them the time and effort of political manuevering in each nation separately trying to acheive the same legislative agenda.

This push by the West began in 1992.

See, globalism is fine if countries are in the Russian sphere of influence, fine if they’re in the Chinese sphere of influence, and fine if they’re in the Western sphere of influence. Each of these spheres of influence are part of globalism’s structure; it’s like mafia families dividing up turf.

But what globalism hates is if a country with considerable raw materials and population is independent of all of those spheres of influence; if they trade and do business in their own interest with other nations as they choose on terms they negotiate. See, they won’t borrow internationally so much. They won’t allow a puppet government so much. It’s a lot of work then for NWO to get operatives into the country and manipulate, because they don’t have their strong levers of international finance and international organizations. The only tools they have are corruption of individual officials, corruption of churches, corruption of powerful organizations, etc. They’re working from the low-level up. By bringing a country into the EU or similar body, they’re imposing their rules from the top-down, so they need not put so much effort into controlling the “details” inside the newly “captive” nation.


29 posted on 07/29/2014 8:04:32 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: grania; All

While people are throwing childish insults around at each other, Kiev did a MAJOR escalation today, firing BALLISTIC MISSILES at rebel-held cities. Namely Scarab-B’s.

When Saddam did it, it was considered a MAJOR WAR CRIME.


30 posted on 07/29/2014 8:06:16 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

Is there an article that can be posted as a new thread ?


31 posted on 07/29/2014 8:11:53 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

So then who do you believe shot down MH17???


32 posted on 07/29/2014 8:18:54 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: PieterCasparzen

Oh, so your brand of conspiracy is slightly different than that of the Paulhroids....like the difference between Shiites and Sunnis...eliminate one prophet, and you would all agree with each other.


33 posted on 07/29/2014 8:32:18 AM PDT by lormand (Inside every liberal is a dung slinging monkey)
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To: McGruff

I think that your question was rather definitively answered back in 1865.


34 posted on 07/29/2014 8:38:49 AM PDT by bagman
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To: tcrlaf

Because the ever-reliable Russian media said it? Stop the presses, it must be true! And when I say “stop the presses”, I mean, “do it now or you might accidentally come down with a bad case of polonium-210”.

Russia is ranked #148 in the world in terms of press freedom. Russian media is basically a well-funded, centralized propaganda operation. Even blogs are legally required to toe the party line. The media agencies pay actors to go around to different areas to make up stories, which they package into sleek “reports” to put up online.

Some of the more funny times were when they had the same actor give wildly different stories on different networks (one news agency even managed to track down one of their actors and pretend to be another Russian news agency, and she discussed with them what sort of rate they usually pay her and what sort of story to make up this time).

I’d say the shark-jumpingest moment had to be was the “Ukranians crucify a child in Slovyansk so they could cut him up in front of his mother before keel-hauling her on a tank” one. I mean, the cameraman had to be trying not to ruin the take by cracking up on that one. If you’re going to go that ridiculous, why not just outright say “they all eat Russian babies for dessert!” and get it over with?


35 posted on 07/29/2014 8:42:36 AM PDT by OldGuard1
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To: OldGuard1

I think when the smoke dies down, we are going to hear about a LOT of things, from both sides. It is a civil war, after all. In a country that was very violent long before this ever began.


36 posted on 07/29/2014 8:47:19 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip

Terrorism is globalism-sponsored, as it’s impossible to operate a criminal syndicate with ongoing financial operations and transactions and not be noticed by government financial and law enforcement surveillance. Case in point, the terrorist leadership that peacefully resides in the UK and US, planning, directing and building their organizations and activities while they raise funds and move them about unhindered.

A globalism sphere, i.e., Chinese, Russian or Western, sponsors terrorism against its own people to manipulate the public viewpoint. But since the Russian and Chinese spheres are pretty much run autocratically, they don’t have such elaborate programs at manipulating public opinion in their spheres. Where coercion is normal, manipulation is not so much necessary. The West, however, with its sophisticated practices required to maintain the perception of freedom of its “sheeple”, is far and away the leader of the three when it comes to sponsoring attacks against itself - financial as well as geo-political - as a means to maniplulating public opinion.

There’s no point to one sphere committing acts of terrorism against another sphere, as the spheres are just agreed-upon divisions of turf. They’re all on the same team, ultimately, the globalism team. The Russian and Chinese spheres were converted to “communism” after their monarchies were toppled by the globalist financial elites because it was possible to institute communism without too much public backlash, as those peoples were accustomed to living under autocratic rule for many centuries.

Externally, what is seen publicly, is a military, geo-political competition, between the spheres. To globalist elites, this is the game they have played for centuries. The actual heads of State will never admit that they are pawns for bankers, publicly, of course. They will simply continue to heed the advice of their top advisors, which are all operatives for the bankers. Typically the heads of State have generations of their family tree dedicated to service to the globalist banking elites, though sometimes illegitimate children and protoges who have worked their way up the globalist minion ladder and have been molded since their early years will be made a head of State.

So in this geo-political “competition”, the public face of competition between east and west, is presented as a military competition, but there is no chance of any military action without the direction of the globalist elites, as the head of State knows that starting a war is “above his pay grade”. When events happen, the heads of State will consult with their top advisors, who then can manage each nation’s official response to the event. The heads of State can then be kept unaware of globalist terrror events, thus they personally all have clean hands and can not reveal secrets that they do not know, and at the same time there is no chance that any head of State will have a reaction other than was planned and transmitted to their top advisors to be “recommended” to the head of State. And all the while, the “competition”, and causes for war, can all be very legitimate-looking to the public, since the media response can be guided by a few simple orders transmitted to key personnel at the news media companies. The Washington Post and the CIA have perhaps the most noteworthy incestuous relationship in this regard.

There really is no other alternative than this is yet another financial elite terror operation.


37 posted on 07/29/2014 9:04:49 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

My question did not require a dissertation —


38 posted on 07/29/2014 9:08:09 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: lormand

No, the Pauls are part of the conspiracy.

I’m merely noting parts of the conspiracy, such as has been done, in pieces and parts, for over a century.

Have you listened to Professor Antony C. Sutton’s interview on the essential part played by Western elite finance in the rise of the NAZI party ?

Professor Sutton was an esteemed Professor of Stanford University’s Hoover Institution. You know, where Condi Rice is a Fellow ?

Here is the Sutton interview, some food for thought:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3vZNSAi-QM


39 posted on 07/29/2014 9:12:07 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Uncle Chip
So then who do you believe shot down MH17???

As I noted, that question is all but irrelevant. Ukrainian air traffic controllers ordered the plane into a war zone and forced it to drop altitude, i.e. set it up like a skeet target, and this is after multiple claims (as in the video) of Ukrainian fighter bombers using airliners as cover while attacking separatist positions. Even if the separatists DID shoot the plane down which I'd still bet against, they were just trying to defend their own people from being bombed.

40 posted on 07/29/2014 9:31:50 AM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: aardwolf46
they were just trying to defend their own people from being bombed.

You don't get to shoot everybody and anybody in sight to do that.

It's called a callous disregard for human life and a war crime.

41 posted on 07/29/2014 9:39:41 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: bagman
I assume you are talking about The Civil War. Since we're on that topic have you seen the rebels battle flag?

Is nothing sacred?

42 posted on 07/29/2014 9:44:52 AM PDT by McGruff (Was George Bush a Putinista?)
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To: McGruff

“Is nothing sacred?”

To Russian thugs in Ukraine? No, nothing is sacred.


43 posted on 07/29/2014 9:50:46 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: PieterCasparzen
re: response #38 to you

Thank you for the dissertation. It does seem that the only way for a country to survive is to be self sufficient, protect its borders, and have stable leadership. Whenever a country reaches that level, it does seem that the global ptb do stir the pot. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine in alliance with Russia, the US.....were all much better off before outsiders armed rebels and manipulated the process (yes I'm including the US in that).

How many European countries and regions have tried to break loose of the EU but can't because "their" leaders put them in debt to the bankers? How many countries have allied with others for financial gain, only to be cut off, impoverished, and destabilized?

If I weren't so lazy about formal academic study (and the manipulation it puts one through) I'd love to explore a thesis that Stability, Self Sufficiency and Secure Borders are the three most important ingredients for a successful nation. Those conditions are what the globalist/illuminati/banker elite (call them what you want) fear the most.

44 posted on 07/29/2014 9:55:24 AM PDT by grania
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To: Uncle Chip

Not under those circumstances. Once again, you’ve got Ukrainian fighter-bombers darting in and out from behind airliners to bomb and then Ukrainian controllers routing an airliner into a war zone and ordering it to drop altitude. At that point, it’s up to the pilot to say “screw this” and get out of Dodge, as high and as fast as possible.


45 posted on 07/29/2014 10:03:44 AM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: McGruff

What if Texas were infiltrated by Mexican thugs to “defend the rights” of other Mexicans residing in American by pushing them to go for succession? THAT’S what is going on in Ukraine, NOT the picture you paint.


46 posted on 07/29/2014 10:55:17 AM PDT by The Truth Will Make You Free
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To: The Truth Will Make You Free

The Truth Will Make You Free

and

Glasses Can Make You See


47 posted on 07/29/2014 10:59:22 AM PDT by McGruff (Was George Bush a Putinista?)
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To: grania

The current strain of banking families has been lending to and corrupting governments since the Renaissance. Using the internet, you certainly can study on your own, which actually gives you much more latitude to pursue leads as you find them, or decide to change course for a while and explore a different vein of leads.

Court bankers are the “power behind the throne”, and they train their protoges to understand that part of being successful at what they do is being at the forefront of espionage and corruption, as well as keeping real power all within their own family. This is why they marry within their own families. The corruption tactics they employ would make most people sick to their stomach; for example, a man pimping out his own wife, child sex rings, etc.

They carefully cultivate their public image too, making the public think that there’s no way they would “care about” “politics” - they’re just “bankers”.

When you consider how well it works, it’s almost comical how “sheeple” will frequently very vehemently protest that the conspiracy which rules them does not exist.

There really hasn’t been a nation which kept these beasts out for centuries. The Romanov family had them really steamed throughout the 19th century; even as the Tsar had accounts in other countries with millions in deposit in their banks. That made the Tsar such a target for the bankers. None of the monies held outside Russia were ever returned to that nation; the only money available to the new government was what was in Russia. Of course, the US-based financiers financed the Bolsheviks to the tune of many millions, which is a whole topic in and of itself.


48 posted on 07/29/2014 11:56:14 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Google search on MH17 and bullet holes
49 posted on 07/29/2014 2:28:28 PM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: McGruff

If Texas did so with the support and financial backing of Mexico it would be more analogous. And if that happened we’d likely beat he’ll out of Mexico.

Oh wait, I just realized they are trying the slow roll of that plan as we speak...


50 posted on 07/29/2014 6:04:27 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Have we crossed the line from Govt. in righteous fear of the People - to a People in fear of Govt??)
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