Posted on 05/04/2015 2:33:07 PM PDT by nickcarraway
I bet it was my ex wife. She has a track record. She took a perfectly good marriage and shatterered it in a million pieces.
He won’t allow images of false Gods to exist.
***
I certainly know that the gods worshiped by the ancient Greeks and Romans were false gods, but I do not think that the average person who goes to view them is engaging in any sort of worship of the gods depicted.
People today view these as great works of art and as historical artifacts. Those who created them just had not learned the truth about the one true God, but they knew that there was something mystical outside themselves. I will not hold it against them that they lived in darkness, as I suspect that their intentions were not evil. We, today, are blessed with the opportunity to know of the one true God.
I am confidant that our loving God will not condemn me for appreciating the art of these ancient statues, since he knows that I do not, in any way, believe in these as deities.
BTW, why do you capitalize “gods” when referring to these false gods?
Manners aren’t taught at home or school. Every little government school graduate is a egomaniac and a little god unto themselves.
>> Michaelangelo’s David...do you think God will allow that to exist? <<
Why not? David was not a “god” of some sort. He happens to have been a Jewish hero, 100 per cent human.
“Perhaps....but when God takes control of God’s Earth...do you think he will allow such scultures depicting other Gods to exist?...Michaelangelo’s David...do you think God will allow that to exist? It’s all going to crumble!”
Wow, your god is really petty. Are you a mooselimb?
That’s assuming that you know of a God with a higher morality and ethos than the one I believe in...do you know of such an one?...then you would have the knowledge of what is really “petty” and what was not. I assume you are not a believer but just borrowing from the latent Judeo-Christian ethos in our society to describe what is “petty”?
My questions were directed to fellow believers as a thought exercise...what would life really be like when Christ shall reign on the Earth. Christ said “heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away!” and Revelation describes a remaking of the same....but after 1000 years of Christ reigning on the Earth. It was about life during that reign that I was speculating.
If you have no belief in Christ I would expect you to find the questions ludicrous and incomprehensible. As for “petty”, I’ll posit that an image of Christ’s nail scarred hands might speak for itself!(Jesus Christ, God in Flesh is “Akbar”...so much for “mooselimbs”)
The David depicted by Michelangelo has Roman Italian features and is “uncircumcised”; David would have been as all Hebrew Israelite males were.(as a matter of fact one of David’s accusations against Goliath was “why do we let this uncircumcised man threaten us..”) The statue was commissioned by the Florentine City State as a symbol of independent defiance against Roman secular control.(not the Church, but the secular control). They saw themselves as a kind of “david” city state against a big “goliath” Rome...but by golly that they could defend itself capably against if needed!
From 1Samuel 17:26 Then David spoke to the men who stood by him, saying, “What shall be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this Uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?”
David at the time was not in his full maturity. I find it Ironic that Michelangelo depicts David as a 14 foot tall statue, higher than Goliath’s 9.9 feet!(yeah, yeah artistic license and all that...the Florentines had paid for an expensive piece of marble and they probably wanted as much as possible used up)
The question was whether or not Christ will allow these things to exist in his kingdom, knowing Paul and the disciples mindset toward these things from scripture. We are warned against those things that inflame the lust of the eye, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. Of course Paul speaks of those things that “are wise, beautiful and of good report, that we are to dwell on those things”.
I know there were episodes in art history that certain works were ordered...”dressed up” by local and church authorities as they were seen as too explicit. So I know that my questions weren’t the first time these issues were explored.
What sort of art would God allow in his kingdom when he sets it up on Earth? What would the limits be? That is my question. What art will he allow to remain from the past? Those are my rhetorical questions on the subject...I suppose the answers would depend on one’s conscience and belief...to be decided by each individual.(at least until the time comes when God decides for all of us!)
ps: as for the capitalization....slip of the keyboard. I write more on the subject of God and so little on “gods” and idols that it’s just habit to capitalize the G. Call it bad pre-editing. If there is some other nefarious or darkly spiritual reason why I do so...I guess God will have to help ferret that out!
“David would have been”...circumcised. For clarification of that statement in the previous post.
“That’s assuming that you know of a God with a higher morality and ethos than the one I believe in...do you know of such a one?”
I certainly do know of a God with a higher morality and ethos than the one you describe. That would be the God described in the Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments, which differs substantially from the petulant child you describe.
If he were as petulant as you think I believe or have described, he should have wiped all of us out with the first black thought that entered each our heads. You have accused me falsely sir. God is certainly not as petulant as you have been in reaction to my postings!
“You have accused me falsely sir. God is certainly not as petulant as you have been in reaction to my postings!”
Oh, get real. You’re the one saying that God is offended by art.
The issue of the possibility that I’ve raised that Christ when he takes control in the world, may totally upend all our notions as to what we consider art or beauty seems to have unhinged you. You, who say you know the God of the old and new testaments, then you know of the scriptures where he says he will do that. But out of petulance, is that what you really think I believe? Seems to me love is more like it!
Zechariah 14 day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
2I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquakes in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
6On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
8On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
9The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
10The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. 11It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
12This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. 14Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. 15A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
16Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
20On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty.
Petulance? I don’t think you even understand the meaning of the word!
>> David would have been...circumcised <<
So Michaelangelo made a small mistake, maybe because he couldn’t find any Jewish male models in Florence.
Therefore, all God-fearing people should want the statue to be destroyed?
Or maybe the Italian government should just hire a highly skilled marble worker to “correct” the statue. Then it would be OK?
No, it is a matter of conscience right now, the larger question I was asking has to do with what the Lord will allow when the Son reigns upon the Earth. I’m not necessarily for creating anti temperance gangs to go around smashing art. Though there is some art like “Piss Christ”, that I’m not sure what reaction I would have if I was ever around it. You know in your own soul that in the reign of the Lord to come what Christ will do with such art...your own spiritual enlightenment testifies against such art! Now I have maybe mixed the notions of art verses antiquity creations of depictions of gods...but I tend to view all such as creations of forms or images that depict an intrinsic idea or reality that the artist wished expressed.
A nude statue of a lady at the bath, a few Rubins paintings,some Da Vinci Madonna paintings...some of it I have a tendency to think that it is harmless and what ever is wrong with such art, God will “filter it out” in the end.
Yet when I hear of a Buddhist statue being destroyed by Muslims, my first reaction is...bloody savages, but then a deeper pause...”but they are idols and false Gods” and some how I start not caring so much about the fact that they were destroyed. DSC thinks I believe in a “petulant” God but I think God does what he does because of our own individual and collective petulance and we will be judged so. Our best righteousness is as filthy rags, and mine are as filthy as anyone’s.
“seems to have unhinged you”
Well, that’s just over the top.
Out.
:)
Waiiiiit don’t go, I was going to issue polemics against Christmas trees, the Easter bunny, and whether or not it was just three wise men...../s
You missed the point completely. Nothing is eternal.....but God himself and that which has been done to his further his glory!
The question itself is part of a deeper issue I’ve been grappling with, of whether or not the Christians of America need to think beyond America as home and to remember who our true home is. Ironically, remembering WHO our true home is might help us save America, at least in this generation! The art/antiquities question was part of a spin off of this larger question. We might not be able to impact this America at all until we learn to love Christ beyond what is America, indeed what the world is!
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