Does Times Reporting Support Donald Trump’s Wiretap Claim? (NY Times Implosion Underway)

The New York Times ^ | MARCH 8, 2017 | Liz Spayd THE PUBLIC EDITOR

[Helicondelta]

Several readers have written in this week saying they’re having a hard time squaring The Times’s own past reports of wiretapping with the paper’s assertions that there is no firm evidence that any warrants for wiretaps have been issued. Readers also expressed confusion with The Times’s assertion that it would be illegal for a White House to receive information about such investigations, when its own wiretapping story in January said the Trump White House was given some information from intercepted communications.

“For months now the NY Times and many other mainstream news sources has been running stories based on anonymous leaks saying that a massive investigation was going on into Trump and company’s Russian dealings based on wiretaps and intel intercepts,” wrote John Penley of Asheville, N.C. “Now Obama officials are saying this all never happened so my question is this: Why have the NY Times and others been saying it has for months now basing their stories on anonymous leaks?”

I reached out to editors in the Washington bureau to seek their help in clarifying the difference between Clapper’s — and The Times’s — assertions that no warrants had been issued, and the reference to wiretapping in the January story.

[KC Burke]

So, essentially, the New York Times reporting and President Trump say that former President Obama and his people interfered and surveilled a US election opponent.

[dp0622]

OBAMA HEARD ABOUT IT ON THE TV!!!

EVEN JARRETT MOVING IN!! HE DIDN’T KNOW SHE WAS COMING! :)

[Bodleian_Girl]

Hoist with their own petard!

[ManHunter]

And if that’s the case, the arrest and trial should be VERY public. I was an intelligence officer for over 30 years, worked with or for almost every one of the 17 agencies in the community and retired at a pretty senior level; I’ve never heard of any such thing occurring anywhere within the Intelligence Community.

I would add that, in 1997, Newt Gingrich was the target of a very similar and highly suspicious intercept supposedly done by a janitor and his wife with equipment they purchased at Radio Shack, if I recall correctly. I’d look for the media to roll out a similar line of BS if this story begins to gain traction - and it is. I can see something like, “Teenager Hacks Verizon (or some other carrier) and Intercepts Trump Phone Conversations”.

[wildbill]

Wow! When talking about parsing words to deflect the truth I guess it depends on the meaning of Obama.

First deflection: Times said, “these investigations have been conducted by the F.B.I., intelligence agencies and Congress, not by Obama himself.” Any moron would not interpret Trump’s remark literally to mean he personally installed a tap or electronic surveillance on Trump or his aides.

2nd Obfuscation: The Times has also said Obama administration officials sought to spread intelligence about a possible link between Trump and Russia to ensure a trail of evidence for investigators, but it said Obama himself was not involved. Another parsing to confuse the context of the article on Jan. 20. The King did not kill the Archbishop of Canterbury but who was responsible.?

3. A truth that reveals the crime. “And no Times reporter has claimed that any warrants have been issued to spy on Trump or his associates.” Ah, so the electronic surveillance that the Times reported on was done without a warrant. This is possible under current law where all intel agencies have access to anything the NSA has collected simply by asking. Check with NSA whistle blower William Binney

[Billthedrill]

That’s quite a stirring defense right there: “The charge that we’re lying sacks of donkey crap is completely untrue. What you’re smelling is really horse crap. And we’ll tell you the difference in detail...um...later.” Bart Simpson did it better.

[kiryandil]

Brand value of the NY Times seems to be slipping.

You mean "the failing NY Times"... LOL!

[b4its2late]

Clinton put the bug in Lynch’s ear on the plane “happen chance” meeting that was months in the planning actually.

[RightGeek]

Brand value of the NY Times seems to be slipping.

You mean "the failing NY Times"... LOL!

Soon to be the Mexican Times

[treetopsandroofs]

I recall the knee-jerk defense of all his lies about Hussein Care being “Obama was just generalizing”.

[HotHunt]

I think the surveillance was routine against the Russian ambassador as a foreign person but his conversation with Flynn was picked up in the course of that surveillance without a FISA warrant.

The initial recording of the Russian Ambassador's phone conversation was routine and not a crime, in and of itself. Including Flynn's portion of the conversation was a crime without the FISA warrant being issued but sharing it with other agencies was no longer a crime because Obama and Lynch gave it legal status just before leaving office, in allowing all the intelligence agencies to share their raw intelligence data with other agencies.

Trump needs to put a stop to the sharing of raw data immediately. This was only done to be able to use those conversations to discredit Trump, not for some other laudable purpose.

The leaking of the unauthorized conversation to the press was definitely a crime.

Only one thing is clear to me. That draining the swamp is a messy operation and rife with hidden reptiles and creepy, algae-covered anti-Trumpers, both democRATS and establishment Republican-types.

Without Trump, we would never see what's even in the swamp, let alone exposing all these vile creatures to the daylight.

[Grampa Dave]

"Elisabeth Bumiller, the NY Slimes bureau chief, said the January story was referring to information picked up from wiretaps and other intelligence collected overseas, a process that requires no warrants."

"This has been basically going on since Truman got rid of the OSS and formed the CIA and NSA. Part of their charters was not to spy on or monitor Americans."

So, we monitored Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and Canutes and they monitored our citizens to get around those bans re not monitoring your own citizens. America and the 4 countries mentioned above, formed the 5 Eyes.

So here is how this could have gone down. Obama asks Clapper privately to monitor TrumpTower and Trump. Or Obama asked Lynch to ask Clapper to monitor TrumpTower and Trump.

Then, Clapper could have asked Canada, the UK, Australia or New Zealand to spy on Trump and any American or Americans without ordering it to be done by the NSA or FBI. Leaving Obama able to say, “I didn’t order the spying on Trump Tower, or as Nixon said decades ago, “I am not a crook!”

This has been going on for decades starting with #1 through #3 below:

1. Project 5 eyes

2. Project Echelon

3. Project Prism

#1 and #2 go back to the early days after President Truman got rid of the OSS and established the CIA and the NSA.

As noted,neither agency were supposed to spy or monitor American citizens as per their charters.

With 5 eyes, we would/could spy on the UK/Brits, Australians, Kiwis and Canadians and let the mother countries know when they might have problems. Then, they would monitor American citizens like Trump and his people for us and give us the data on those American Citizens. Supposedly the countries mentioned above can’t spy on their own people. Our NSA/CIA/? Could do that and report to the mother country if there was a problem.

Echelon came about a little later. With the 5 eyes lateral spying agreement, Echelon became solidified and very functional for decades. We monitored their citizens, and they monitored our citizens like candidate Trump and his people.

Prism supposedly replaced 5 eyes and Echelon, but the 5 Eyes/Echelon concept was/is still there.

So Obama would not had to ask NSA/FBI to spy on Trump. He could have had Clapper ask his counterpart in Canada or any of the 5 Eye countries to monitor Trump Towers and listen in to what was said.

The FBI may have put bugs in or set up electronic interceptions at Trump Towers for their Canadian intel counterparts to monitor all verbal and digital transmission to and from Trump Tower in October of last year until this year up to Trump becoming President. There is minimal need for bugs with todauy's state of electronic monitoring from afar.

So did Canada/GB/ monitor Trump and his people in Trump Towers, in NYC, and then report back to Obama, NSA, FBI and ?. If so, Obama could deny that he ordered the spying?

Obama is playing a game by saying he didn’t order the FBI?NSA to spy on candidate Trump and his people. Obama probably had Clapper or ? ask his Canadian counterparts to spy on Trump and his people. Or he had Lynch ask Clapper, then Clapper asked one of the 5 Eye countries to monitor Trump Tower, Trump and his people.

Have fun with this data! Don’t try searching for this late at night to avoid getting insomnia.

Remember Clapper is probably somehow involved and is a first class liar.

[Avalon Memories]

I had the same reaction. Poorly written CYA tripe masquerading as a editorial.

[Avalon Memories]

no...from wiretaps AND information collected overseas...important to read every word the NotTrueNews actually says

[Grampa Dave]

Were they using British M16 as proxy to monitor without a warrant?

It would have been GCHQ.

GCHQ: The British Are Spying On Us More Than the NSA Is - Mic

https://mic.com/articles/50333/gchq-the-british-are-spying-on-us-more-than-the-nsa-is

Jun 21, 2013 - The latest revelations obtained from Edward Snowden detail a vast, top secret surveillance operation run by the British spy agency GCHQ to ..
.
Is The NSA Paying Britain To Spy On Americans? | Off The Grid News

www.offthegridnews.com/privacy/is-the-nsa-paying-britain-to-spy-on-americans/

They note that it is illegal for the NSA to spy on US citizens and legal residents of the ... The GCHQ’s reach is worldwide, and it is more aggressive than the NSA.

Global surveillance disclosures (2013–present) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)

Ongoing news reports in the international media have revealed operational details about the .... As a contractor of the NSA, Snowden was granted access to U.S. ... that the Bush Administration had spied on U.S. citizens without court approval .....

For more than three years GCHQ has been using an automated monitoring ...

American and British Spy Agencies Targeted In-Flight Mobile Phone Use

https://theintercept.com/.../american-and-british-spy-agencies-targeted-in-flight-mobil...

Dec 7, 2016 - American and British Spy Agencies Targeted In-Flight Mobile Phone Use ... The NSA attributed the increase to “more planes equipped with in-flight ... or GCHQ, the British equivalent of the NSA, in turn disclosed a program ... and “when the flights enter U.S. airspace, they should be more than covered by the ...

[dragnet2]

Trump knows who was behind it. Otherwise, there is no way he’d go public and point right at Obamba.

[Grampa Dave]

CNN is in the same potential death spiral with money from our State Dept., foreign countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran and ?.

CNN is probably the mouth piece of the CIA.

If CNN loses the State and Farm/CIA money, it will be in serious financial trouble.

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks for your service and knowledge.

Can we have open trials with this constant screwing by using with the CIA/NSA/FBI and only God knows what other 3 letter agencies?

[dhs12345]

And if it is an ally like Great Britain, it might not look good for them — a foreign spy agency fighting a US president.