Why It Is Misleading to Compare Murder Rates in the US and Western Europe

American Thinker ^ | 04/07/2018 | Antonio Chaves

[SeekAndFind]

A 2016 article by the American Journal of Medicine claims that homicide rates in the U.S. are 7 times higher than an average of other “high income countries.”  This conclusion is based on a select list of OECD nations compiled in 2010.  The lowest income nation on the list is Hungary, where per capita GDP is $28,000 per year.  Turkey and Mexico did not make the cut because their per capita GDPs are respectively $25,000 and $19,000.  Latvia and Estonia are not on this list, presumably because Latvia joined the OECD in 2016 and Estonia joined in December of 2010.  Turkey, Estonia, and Latvia have murder rates comparable to those in the U.S.  Mexico exceeds the U.S. by about 4 times.  Most would agree that Mexico is not “high income” but the case for excluding these other three nations is not as clear cut.

If the list were to include all of Eastern Europe, Russian and Lithuania would surpass the U.S. in homicides per capita.  Only when the U.S. is compared with affluent Western nations that were never under the iron curtain does its murder rate far exceed all other in the sample.  The AJM attributes this grim statistic to high levels of gun ownership in the U.S., but the authors fail to point out that two of the safest nations in the world (Switzerland and Finland) rank 3^rd and 4^th in per capita gun ownership.

The U.S. has almost double the gun ownership rate of Finland and (according to a table in the AJM article) 12 times the gun homicide rate.  Does this mean there is a “critical mass” for gun ownership where the murder rate increases exponentially? 

[rb22982]

US murder rate was also far higher than Western Europe before either country started cracking down on guns. Of course, when you start looking Demographics, the murder rates for Caucasians in the US is not materially different than in Europe.

[pepsionice]

These homicide studies between the US and Europe tend to miss dozens of factors.

I’ve lived around Germany off and on, for twenty years. If you did go and look at murders and assaults...you can red-tag urbanized areas, and come to realize that the vastly rural areas of the country rarely see any murders or assaults.

You can also go and ask Germans about crime before 1990 (the West Germany days), and most will tell you that the crime rate and murders were half of what you see today. Since the wall came down, and borders opened up...there’s been a trend going on.

But the one factor I will point out....nowhere in Germany will you find some urban jungle area (where you need to carry a gun on you in the car) like Baltimore or Memphis. There are no-go areas in highly urbanized areas (like Hamburg or Berlin), but it’s more to avoid the doped-up freaks and the street crime associated with them.

[CottonBall]

With the Muslim invasion, this will change. Of course, many if tggem use knives, bombs, and trucks for their homicides.

[blam]

"Of course, when you start looking Demographics, the murder rates for Caucasians in the US is not materially different than in Europe."

I read years ago that just taking the Black crimes out made the numbers lower than Europe.

[xkaydet65]

Compare traffic deaths in the US to the other industrialized nations and you will find similar differences. More Americans die in traffic accidents than the UK, Ger., Japan, France, Canada, Scandinavia, BenNeLux, Spain and Italy combined.
What is the reason? I do not know except maybe something in our national character causes chance taking behavior. Maybe TR’s speech at the hunting camp in Wind and the Lion was just John Milius being spot on about the American Character.

[PapaBear3625]

FBI homicide data 2016, by race and ethnicity

Where race and ethnicity of the offender is known, 5,004 are white, 6,095 are black. Of the "white" offenders, 1,533 are Hispanic, leaving 3,451 non-Hispanic whites.

So out of the 11099 homicides where the offender's ethnicity is known, 3,451 (31%) are non-Hispanic white.

The 2016 US homicide rate is 5.4 per 100K. 31% of that is 1.7 per 100K. The European Union homicide rate is 1.0

Also, many inner-city black-on-black murders are unsolved, and thus the perp's ethnicity is officially "unknown".

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Treat black murder separately from the rest of the population’s and the US is as peaceful as Sweden... before the Moslem invasion.

[AlaskaErik]

Once you account for suicides (not sure if they are included), criminal on criminal murders and justifiable homicides, our rate isn’t nearly as bad as it’s made out to be. Sadly, there are many cases of domestic violence.
But, once you get down to random murders, where the perp and the victim didn’t know each other, we are no worse than any western country.

[Thank You Rush]

WORLD MURDER STATISTICS

From the World Health Organization:
The latest Murder Statistics for the world:
Murders per 100,000 citizens.

Honduras 91.6
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d’lvoire (Ivory Coast) 56.9
Jamaica 522
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 81
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname .6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2
And ...................
The United States 4.2 !!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL the countries (109) above America have 100% gun bans.

[Bodega]

Of course, when you start looking Demographics, the murder rates for Caucasians in the US is not materially different than in Europe.
***************
Absolutely correct. I don’t know right off hand what the murder rate is in Chicago or Detroit or St Louis or DC or any huge city with a huge ghettosized central or even spread out area. But the rate is very different and hugely higher than out here in the Big Empty. Demographics largely explains it as the people out in the Big Empties of the US tend to be Caucasians except in the southern South.

[aquila48]

Nice reference.

[Truthoverpower]

Cut out black on black murder in the inner city and we’re way lower

It skews the stats

[Fightin Whitey]

Health stats too. Obesity. Unemployment and underemployment. Poverty levels. School achievement evals. On and on.

I would wager than Modern Leftists have wrought more harm on blacks than slavery did.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: ALL the countries (109) above America have 100% gun bans.

I wish what you aid were true, but it is not. There are no gun bans in the Philippines, which is on the list ( where I used to live and work ).

See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_Philippines

[Svartalfiar]

Actually, both Puerto Rico and St Lucia do not have full gun bans either. Both are, however, mere restrictive than these US. I’m honeymooning in St Lucia later this year, and per their gov website, tourists can obtain a carry permit for their visit.
These two just jumped off the list at me, and I’m guessing a lot more of these countries don’t have 100% bans either Do some research before you post stuff like that..

[Thank You Rush]

“”Do some research before you post stuff like that..””

Golly - guess I should apologize then? There are hundreds of the same article online and not one that disputes the info. Maybe you should check out the rest of the countries so you could post more NOT TRUE comments!

[Svartalfiar]

Golly - guess I should apologize then? There are hundreds of the same article online and not one that disputes the info. Maybe you should check out the rest of the countries so you could post more NOT TRUE comments!

Why are you getting pissy at me? YOU are the one who posted incorrect information. Just because lots of other websites have incorrect info posted, doesn't mean that we need to do the same thing here.

You should be the one checking the rest of the countries, as you are the one posting the information and it is your reputation that would be harmed by posting incorrect information, not mine. I don't need to research all of those countries - I know for a fact that two of them are incorrect (and SeekandFind mentioned a third one), and don't know about any of the others. But, that little information leads me to believe that you don't know what you're talking about, and didn't bother to check the veracity of the information you're posting. So why should I believe any of the others are correct? The fact that you claim all of those countries have 100% guns bans is a red flag off the bat - not that many countries have a complete and total ban. Very very restricted, yes, but 100% bans aren't that widespread.

But, since I'm bored at work, here's a couple of countries on your list that DON'T have 100% bans:
- Philippines
- Puerto Rico
- St Lucia
- Russia
- US Virgin Islands
- Panama
- El Salvador
- Dominican Republic
- Uruguay
- Honduras
- Ukraine
- Timor-Leste (East Timor)
- China
- Haiti
- Belize
- Lesotho
- South Africa
- Congo (DRC)
- Congo (RoC)
- Malawi

Some that actually do have full bans:
- Venezuela - Banned in 2012, only police/army/security is allowed to have, but not 'own'.
- North Korea - military only
- South Korea - actually allows several categories, but they cannot be stored at home, so I'll give you this one.
- Jamaica

[Thank You Rush]

“”The fact that you claim all of those countries have 100% guns bans is a red flag off the bat “”

The fact that “I” claim????? Are you kidding? You’re not able to tell the difference between what someone posts from another source and what they believe themselves?

I merely posted what is on the internet and are you going to tell me that incorrect information NEVER gets posted at FR? I DIDN’T CLAIM ANYTHING!

MY REPUTATION IS GOING TO BE HARMED???? I’m trembling!!

[Svartalfiar]

The fact that “I” claim????? Are you kidding? You’re not able to tell the difference between what someone posts from another source and what they believe themselves?

Yes, what YOU claim. You posted a bunch of murder stats from WHO. I very highly doubt they include the last part of your post as part of their murder stats, which, incidentally, is the part of your post that is incorrect:
The United States 4.2 !!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL the countries (109) above America have 100% gun bans.

I merely posted what is on the internet and are you going to tell me that incorrect information NEVER gets posted at FR? I DIDN’T CLAIM ANYTHING!

You posted information from the internet that you didn't bother to verify, which makes it difficult to ascertain what is correct or not. (Assuming the "100% gun ban" was from the internet, and not your commentary. If it was, then it is what you claimed!) Yes, FR gets incorrect stuff posted all the time. But that isn't ideal, and that's why you need to check stuff before posting. And why posters will correct people when they do post misleading or incorrect stuff.