Posted on 05/26/2022 11:01:30 AM PDT by Mount Athos
According to information from the German Press Agency, there are informal agreements among the NATO states to refrain from delivering certain weapon systems to Ukraine.
As the dpa was confirmed in alliance circles in Brussels on Wednesday, the risk of a direct military confrontation between NATO states and Russia should be kept as low as possible.
There are fears, for example, that Russia could officially see the delivery of Western battle tanks and combat aircraft as entering the war and then take military retaliatory measures.
Weapon systems of this type have not yet been delivered to Ukraine.
According to information from the SPD parliamentary group, this informal appointment is known in Berlin. "The Defense Committee was fully informed of this in mid-May," said the defense policy spokesman for the SPD parliamentary group, Wolfgang Hellmich, of the German Press Agency.
In Germany, statements by the Parliamentary State Secretary in the Ministry of Defense, Siemtje Möller (SPD), had recently caused discussions. She said on Sunday in the ZDF program "Berlin direct" about arms deliveries that it was recorded within NATO "that no armored personnel carriers or battle tanks of Western models were delivered".
Union parliamentary group leader Johann Wadephul (CDU) then criticized on Wednesday that the federal government had not mentioned such an agreement during the deliberations in the Bundestag on the delivery of heavy weapons. “Either it is due to a scandalous incompetence coupled with sloppiness and ignorance. Or, and that would be a veritable scandal, the German Bundestag and the public are being led behind the spruce with ever new pseudo-justifications in order to camouflage a systematic delay strategy," he told the "Focus Online" portal.
A NATO spokesman only commented on the subject in general on Wednesday. He pointed out that all delivery decisions are ultimately a matter for the individual Member States. According to diplomats, they have so far adhered to informal agreements - also because otherwise they would have to fear that they would not receive the full support of their alliance partners in the event of a Russian attack. For this reason, Poland, for example, is said to have refrained from delivering MiG-29 fighter jets of Soviet design to Ukraine more than two months ago.
The commander-in-chief of the US armed forces in Europe, Tod D. Wolters, said in March that the transfer of MiG-29s could be misunderstood by Moscow's intelligence services and could result in an escalation between Russia and NATO. This is a high-risk scenario, the four-star general said.
Agreements in the past have been indirectly confirmed by French President Emmanuel Macron, among others. In March, after a special summit of the heads of state and government of the NATO countries on the subject of arms deliveries, he said: "There is a limit, which is not to become a party to the war." This border is shared by all Allies and that is why no one has yet delivered weapons such as airplanes.
The CDU politician Wadephul accused the federal government on Wednesday of violating the Bundestag decision to supply heavy weapons to Ukraine. 'It's not happening. In doing so, the federal government is violating a binding decision by parliament,” he criticized. “If things continue like this, there will be a committee of inquiry later!”
The federal government has so far publicly promised to deliver two types of heavy weapons to Ukraine: Gepard anti-aircraft tanks and Panzerhaubitzen 2000 (heavy artillery pieces). However, Ukraine is also demanding that Germany supply battle tanks and armored personnel carriers to defend against the Russian attackers. Armored personnel carriers are smaller and lighter than main battle tanks. The Bundeswehr has Leopard-type battle tanks and Marder-type armored personnel carriers. The armaments group Rheinmetall has offered to deliver used examples of both models directly to Ukraine. Nothing is known about a formal decision by the federal government.
NATO, on the other hand, protects the federal government. "Germany has provided Ukraine with thousands of weapons, including anti-aircraft missiles and anti-tank missiles," a spokesman said on Wednesday. In addition, the German decision to provide Ukraine with artillery weapons and anti-aircraft tanks is also welcomed.
Against this background, it was also emphasized in alliance circles that the risk analyzes for arms deliveries are constantly being updated. Accordingly, it cannot be ruled out that at some point western battle tanks and fighter jets will also be delivered to Ukraine.
I’m still wondering just how they expect to successfully deliver all of this heavy equipment without much of it being intercepted by Russia along the way. It’s a long way from Ukraine’s western border with limited roadways to bring this east where the fighting is at.
That was always the problem. These is no network of Interstate highways and if there were it would be child’s play to interdict them. Sealift is ruled out. So it’s unlikely that much heavy equipment would ever make it to the Ukraine.
But it was a good opportunity for Biden and the EU to posture and puff up their feathers and make rousing patriotic speeches.
Logistics, logistics, logistics.
The T-72s gifted by the Czech Republic still have not found the war theater.
That was a month ago.
Prevent war — bypass logistics — drop a Rod from God on Pootsie.
“He pointed out that all delivery decisions are ultimately a matter for the individual Member States. According to diplomats, they have so far adhered to informal agreements - also because otherwise they would have to fear that they would not receive the full support of their alliance partners in the event of a Russian attack. For this reason, Poland, for example, is said to have refrained from delivering MiG-29 fighter jets of Soviet design to Ukraine more than two months ago.”
Hilarious.
They virtue signal like US politicians, but do very little.
Screw that. Give the Ukies whatever they need to kill Russians.
Exactly, non western MSM has reported strange unmarked aircraft ( US? NATO?) landing on western Ukrainian highways to drop off arms, ammo, etc,…Vlad destroying lots of foreign gear at the western airfields.
Logistics, logistics, logistics.
————
Everyone screaming arms, ammo, aircraft, etc….what about the basics? Soldiers. Non western MSM have reported many Ukies surrendered/ captured in the Donbass cauldrons, figures from 3,000 to 8,000 the past week.Another Mariupol?
A few videos out there ( you will not find them on western sites) filming a few Regional Defence forces commanders explaining they are equipped only with small arms, no artillery, anti tank, or heavy weapons ( obviously- Vlad has cut off their supply routes), and although they want to fight, they will not comply with suicide missions.
Ukraine MOD planning for a huge defeat in the East. In the end, it is obvious Vlad will not stop until the Donbass is “ liberated”.
The stuff hasn’t been intercepted.
Up to the Dnieper, things are fine. Beyond the river the Russians may see it, but are unable to intercept. Their equipment is that bad
I’m still wondering just how they expect to successfully deliver all of this heavy equipment without much of it being intercepted by Russia along the way. It’s a long way from Ukraine’s western border with limited roadways to bring this east where the fighting is at.
————
You will know when Vlad gets serious. He has been exercising restraint. About 12 bridges span the Dniepner river, cutting Ukraine in half ( like our Mississippi River), the military commentators are aware when those bridges are destroyed, the Ukies are finished.
So the question is, when does Vlad call “ Checkmate “ ?
Dear idiots running this country, and the eneablers in Congress:
STOP POKING THE BEAR.
I don’t give a crap about Ukraine or Russia, or most of the European socialist snobs.
Stay. Out.
They probably have to be moved by rail. It’s unlikely that Russia would allow trains to carry tanks into the Ukraine. It’s another example of “geniuses” who have no ideas of the practicalities involved coming up with “solutions”. The Ukraine War has basically been “come as you are” except for light armaments like handheld missiles.
Back in 1951 Eisenhower said all US troops should be out of Germany by 61. He saw NATO as 10 years, not a lifetime.
They probably have to be moved by rail.
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Exactly, and even western MSM has mentioned the rail centers have been under attack ( destroyed). Ukraine is not the US with interstates, load rated developed roads and bridges, etc, most movement is done by a highly developed rail system, with more than a third being electric locomotives- easily shut down by destroying the power supply ( which Vlad has done) or physical rail lines. The lack of reported heavy armor in the Donbass ( reported by the Ukies themselves) confirms a huge, heavy amount of equipment ( tanks, heavy artillery, etc) is simply not being moved in theatre….mute point anyway, Ukie tank losses are now at 3,125 as of last week.
www.riafan.ru
Strange how western MSM never reports the huge Ukie losses, but only bad Vlad’s losses ( unconfirmed by all independent accounts). This will all come to light in a few weeks when the Ukies pull out of the Donbass ,across the flat plains, to the Dniepner…I suspect when that happens, Vlad brings down all the bridges across the Dniepner, trapping the retreating Ukies.
Stay tuned, and don’t get sucked in.
“Strange how western MSM never reports the huge Ukie losses, but only bad Vlad’s losses ( unconfirmed by all independent accounts).”
It’s not strange. The One-World Cabal wants Russia destroyed. So the western media (owned by Soros and his buddies) dutifully prints every obvious propaganda lie with straight faces.
I’m sure you’re very disappointed. Thankfully wiser and less reckless decisions were made. The globalists will have to be more patient.
“...Russia could officially see the delivery of Western battle tanks and combat aircraft as entering the war and then take military retaliatory measures”
Oh, really? Giving $billions$ in state of the art weapons “could” been seen as entering the war? Should the russkies wait until the equip is positioned on the battlefield instead of blowing them up before they could be used?
“the transfer of MiG-29s could be misunderstood by Moscow’s intelligence services”
Misunderstood? How? Did they think the Russkies expected Nato to send hot air balloons? Are MIG’s used to plow fields or something?
NOT TAKING A SIDE. Just pointing out the stupidity of this analysis. Complete departure from how warring parties would 100% react. Any 1/2 awake general would destroy weapons, if he could, before they could be used against his soldiers.
And I’m surprised and disappointed that Freepers need to be consistently reminded that nearly every comment posted here [by regulars] comes from a healthy, skeptical desire for truth. It’s pointing out stupid decisions, lies, and propaganda. Resisting lies and heralding truths does not imply allegiance to any side.
They say they only have 8000 total so far, but a lot more coming soon probably
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