British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly has a message for Republicans who want to turn their backs on Ukraine: America is at its strongest when it embraces the world

Daily Mail ^ | July 19, 2023 | Rob Crilly

[Leep]

America is at its strongest when it embraces war we have no business being in.

[PIF]

You are confusing the isolationists who imagine a utopia, if only the US was not involved with the rest of the world in any way shape or form, mainly because, to them, it seems money is far more important then freedom, for which they would have to crawl off their expensive couches to defend, but only if they didn’t have to spend their money to do it.

Isolationists have always been wrong and the cause of many problems for the US. Wrong historically, wrong now. Their naivety does not help

[HamiltonJay]

Bailed them out in 2 world wars and paid for their military protection through the Cold War and beyond…

Petulant teenager attitude is all we get in return for it.

[kabar]

Under our One China policy, we acknowledge that Taiwan is part of China. We just don’t want a forcible takeover of Taiwan by China. When China seized Hong Kong early in violation of its agreement with the UK, it suffered no consequences. It remains to be seen what the world’s reaction would be to a seizure of Taiwan. I suspect it will be muted given the dependence so many countries have on China, including us.

Yellin was just in China kowtowing to Xi and telling him the US will not decouple from China economically.

Agree that Taiwan has been totally infiltrated by the CCP. Doubtful that Taiwan would put up much of a fight. And our compromised President will do nothing.

[mewzilla]

The UK is paying for Brexit.

The US is paying for electing Trump.

And both countries are now under the thumb of their respective Deep State.

[JesusIsLord]

British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly has a message for Republicans who want to turn their backs on Ukraine: America is at its strongest when it embraces the world

Translation: American taxpayers and military needs to resolve European problems because European countries don't want the responsibility to do so.

The Ukraine problem reminds me of WW1, where democrat president Wilson conned us into a European war we had no business being in.

[kabar]

The choice isn’t between isolationism and being all-in on Ukraine. No one is advocating that the US withdraw into some sort of shell. Our involvement in global conflicts should be limited to where our strategic national interests are involved. Ukraine isn’t one of them.

[Red6]

Most politicians and senior bureaucrats have seriously compromised their values on their accent. Few have any true values they stand by.

We are a society where religions only place is to give an invocation or to conduct a right of passage and even that is defined by the government (what the cleric is allowed to say, who gets to marry, even if the church doors are required to close because of some election scam like Covid). The people in attendance of any sort of religious organization today accounts for 28% of the adult population and even those mostly just culturally identify as Christian or attend our of tradition and for social acceptance but no longer live their faith (i.e. go to church and then vote in favor of abortion).

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/03/28/how-the-pandemic-has-affected-attendance-at-u-s-religious-services/#:~:text=they%20did%20both.-,Trends%20in%20attendance%20among%20religious%20groups,in%20September%202021%20(26%25).

We are a heterogeneous society as Christians (different denominations), religions, national/ethnic origins, race and there is no common denominator on what right and wrong is. In fact today much of western society has adopted a new “ersatz religion” with the big bang being Genesis, climate change the Apocalypse, folks like Gore being their new priests. It's an all new secular and man made value system where abortion and LGBTQIA is not just acceptable, but good since it addresses their global over population and climate threat. This new paradigm replaces morals with ethics, the later being the teaching of right and wrong in the absence of God or the Bible in its nuance meaning. Of course that just becomes a form of mob rule and is guided by hedonism since man inherently is sinful, something this new paradigm denies.

All that is left in this brave new world is money. Money is the sole means by which society is organized. Money defines right and wrong, it defines the laws, politics, social policies, foreign policies... everything.

Sure, we occasionally still use these old concepts because we all know they are noble: sovereignty, human rights, democracy, privacy, freedom of speech, religion, government transparency... But these ideas have become no more than a punchline. Our policy decisions don't actually reflect any regard for these ideas, we simply use these as rationalizations to justify an action when we can somehow associate them with what we want to do. But in reality we contradict ourselves constantly, i.e. our inaction regards Taiwan vs Ukraine, Mexico military intervention while talking about sovereignty in Ukraine, our pressuring of Solomon islands not to host PRC naval operations while we declare that Ukraine as a sovereign nation should be able to choose on their own if they want to join NATO... And these things are happening concurrently. Even a 5 year old child knows that truth is in consistency.

[dfwgator]

The Ukraine problem reminds me of WW1, where democrat president Wilson conned us into a European war we had no business being in.

The fact is, despite our claims to be neutral, our defense policy pretty much required reliance on the Brits for the defense of the Atlantic, in order to allow us to focus more on the Pacific. That's why we were never "neutral".

[dfwgator]

Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won’t have it!! Is that clear?! You think you’ve merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance!

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state — Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there’s no war or famine, oppression or brutality — one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

-Arthur Jensen (Network)

[nonliberal]

Zip it, Brit.

[PIF]

Ukraine isn’t one of them.

—
Really?? Sort of like Iran, right? Let them die, they are only seeking their freedom which cost too much for us to help. Money is precious - human life and freedom, not so much.

PS: our “strategic national interests are involved”. Whether you like it or not. Support Ukraine now or watch Russia take all or Europe, UK - and then with all of that industrial might and troops really isolate the US. So you can buy your stuff, food, and medicines from Russia or China ...

The US no longer has the trained work force or the educated people or the money or the laws to rebuild it now. The Dems, the Greens have seen to that.

[Socon-Econ]

...if we don’t establish the principle that you cannot change borders by force, the world has become a more dangerous place,’ he said.”
............
Maybe they should arrest Tony Blair and Bill Clinton for Kosovo.
**************
It also depends on what the people are doing on the other side of the border and who is supporting it.

[ViLaLuz]

Embracing the world is not the answer. Embracing God is the answer.

[kabar]

Really?? Sort of like Iran, right? Let them die, they are only seeking their freedom which cost too much for us to help. Money is precious - human life and freedom, not so much.

I lived in Iran for almost two years and left on March 31, 1979. I was there for the fall of the Shah and the return of Khomeini. It was US policy under Jimmy Carter that led to the mullahs taking over Iran, a legacy we still live with today. I see no comparison between Iran and Ukraine. Apples and oranges.

PS: our “strategic national interests are involved”. Whether you like it or not. Support Ukraine now or watch Russia take all or Europe, UK - and then with all of that industrial might and troops really isolate the US. So you can buy your stuff, food, and medicines from Russia or China ...

You have to be batsh*t crazy to believe that. Russia poses no conventional military threat to Europe. It doesn't have the ability to defeat and occupy Europe or the US. Russia is an aging, declining country of 142 million people. Economically and demographically, Europe and the US dwarf Russia, which is having a hard time defeating the ragtag military of Ukraine. There is no Russian boogeyman, except in you imagination.

Take a look at the CIA profile of Russia.

Life expectancy for Russian males is 67. The total fertility rate is 1.6, well below the replacement rate of 2.1.

The population growth rate is minus .24%, 212th lowest in the world. The Russian population pyramid is not the stuff of world domination.

Russian military expenditures can't compete with the West.

[dfwgator]

Turkey will be a much bigger threat to Europe in the long-run, as they can galvanize the entire Muslim population in Europe.

[SMARTY]

I frget who said that in terms of foreign policy ...’the US is like a big friendly dog that knocks over the furniture when he wags his tail.’

[dfwgator]

Haha. I like to think of that classic speech at the end of "Team America"....

"We're d___s! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid d____s!....."

[joe fonebone]

Europe is a continent in a constant state of war.
Better for us to stay out of it.
Thomas Jefferson.

Europe was at war with itself before Christ was born.
It will be at war with itself when our grandchildren are old and grey.
Thomas Jefferson was correct.
Better for us to stay out of it.

[pas]

Let’s have Europe pay the lion share for once.