The 2 Worlds of Muslim-American Teenagers

The New York Times ^ | October 7, 2001 | SUSAN SACHS

[muawiyah]

The way religious folk get along in the US is to relegate the more difficult parts of their faith to the background. This is particularly important for Christians who are obligated to take their faith into all the world. Else, we'd have 'em lined up at our doors 10 deep every day.

One day in a discussion with a couple of mullahs, one gentleman asked me how it is that Christian missionaries will go anywhere and everywhere, but Moslem missionaries don't go to the worst places.

I told him it was that prohibition on Moslems living or working in places with legal systems incompatible with Islamic principles. After all, the places that need the missionaries, if not their religion, the most, barely have law, to say nothing of having law compatible with a high order of civilization.

You will notice that Moslems live in the United States. That is because our system of laws is compatible with Islam. That was determined first by the Ullema in Cairo, and by others later. With 5 million or so Moslems, that actually makes us pretty much one of the major Islamic states in the world.

All is not as it seems, eh?!

[dennisw]

Where's El Cid when you really need him?

[sarcasm]

I sure hope all the Islam apologists here on FR read this.

They'll tell us that this worldview is shared by only a minority of Moslems and that Islam means peace.

[BamaCharm]

"Their ideal society would follow Islamic law and make no separation between religion and state. In the meantime, they said, they want to become doctors and lawyers and teachers in the United States. Even though the American government uses taxes to finance things that are un-Islamic..."

These young miscreants should be labeled MUSLIM "WHORES" because that's what they're espousing - living a lifestyle they believe is wrong solely for the money.

The sooner they are back where they belong, the better for all involved.

[DSH]

There is a medical term that mostly describes what you are talking about. In the human body it's a cancer.

Early detection and treatment, we are told, are crucial if one is to survive cancer. This country, I am afraid, is in deep, deep denial as to the diagnosis.

[muawiyah]

Truly an amazing point of view. Medieval Spain, where the Moslems never constituted an overwhelming majority, was considered possibly the best place to live at the time by everyone who'd heard of it.

Under the Umayyads it was certainly an excellent piece of civilization. Under later regimes where the central power had been broken up, and a federalism prevailed, you could find a community in Spain that satisfied your own personal attitudes toward law, religion and style of community.

Can't say we have yet attained that in the US. At the moment it looks like a single standard imposed from the top that forces us all into an uncomfortable conformity is the rage.

So, what was that you were saying about how Moslems will do it when they try to "take over"? Is that what they did in Spain? Is that going to be worse than a system where we have a bunch of perverts in a Supreme Court telling the rest of us we have to put up with baby killers?

[Truthsayer20]

Considering that 70% of American Muslims voted for Bush it is evident that most Muslims aren't here for handouts. Nor should they be all labeled as fifth columnists.

[Conservative til I die]

I've defended Muslims and Islam on this forum from unwarranted and downright bigoted attacks, but I've begun to come to the conclusion that the American ideal and Islam are just not compatible.

Jews and Christians seem to be able to live the American way and obey American laws with no threat to their religious values, but it seems there is conflict when it comes to Islam. This might make sense, considering that while the Founding Fathers intended for all religions to be free and welcome in the US, they founded the US on Judeo-Christian, Western values.

[FITZ]

They seem to be on the level of Nazis. We don't need this kind of immigrant to the US. I remember just until a few weeks ago, the Jews in this town were free to worship without harassment, now every synagogue must hire security guards for their services and people are finding their flags ripped down and burned.

They really should not mind being sent back to Islamic countries which need their skills because we sure don't.

[Conservative til I die]

Good points. If you are talking about a MUslim majority trying to bend America towards a theocratic rule, I agree with you, although the Constitution does allow, on a local level, people to basically govern themselves as they please, and religion plays a role in it (look at Utah). However, if you're talking about other countries, the Constitution, though it is my ideal, is not binding on anyone else. If Muslims as a majority religion want to rule using Islamic law, then that's what they are going to do. I don't think its neccessarily right, but that is the way the world works.

[porte des morts]

They'll tell us that this worldview is shared by only a minority of Moslems and that Islam means peace.

This view is very often held by non-Arab converts to Islam.Yet they fail to explain why the majority of interviews and the actions (or non-action) of the Islamic community does not mesh with the definition of peaceful. I have been saying since 91101; there are only two sides.....I jumped for joy when GWB said basically the same thing.

This article clearly points out were these peoples sympathies lie.

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

When I see American Muslims purging and denouncing their own extremists and staging large protests against the slaughter of innocents by their brethren, I might think differently than I do now.

On September 11th, a group of Muslims working in a computer manufacturing plant in my U.S. city, rejoiced and cheered over the carnage in New York, thereby starting a fist-fight with fellow workers.

[IRtorqued]

No reason to be shocked this goes back way before bushtheyounger, he is just carrying on the traditions of his father and his fathers father.

[IronJack]

They cannot be shaken from the conviction that America is intrinsically anti-Muslim.

Let me ask you this, carpet rider: how many churches do you have in Saudi Arabia? How many mosques do we have in America? Now WHO are the bigots???!!!!

Maybe America is "anti-Muslim" because Islam has shown itself to be anti-Western. Or, maybe America isn't anti-Muslim at all. Maybe that is just a convenient fiction behind which to hide a murderous agenda, and speciously justify the slaughter of 7,000 innocents.

[kosta50]

Sura 9, verse 5: Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them, in every strategem [of war]."

This is what Islam teaches. "Nice," eh?

People read the Koran. Don't let those who embraced it tell you about it. Learn what's it all about from the source.

[Gracey]

Ping

[Let's Roll]

And what do you wanna bet that legal Islamic immigration to the US is still running at max?

[laconic]

We're being used by people such as this who have no appreciation for this country, its history or traditions (I'm not saying that about all Muslims, but this bunch certainly fits it). All the supposed "anti-Muslim activity" of the US armed forces during the past decade?: 1) freeing Kuwaiti Muslims from Iraqi domination in 1991; 2) in 1992/3, feeding 3 million Somali Muslims at a loss of 20 of our Rangers; 3) in 1995, garrisoning, feeding and supporting Muslim Bosnia against Serbs whose parents helped us in the fight against Hitler; 4) in 1999, bombing the tar out of our fellow Christians in Kosovo on behalf of Albanian Muslims. I could add paying billions a year to the Egyptian and Palestinian Authority governments but I know this bunch wouldn't care to hear it.

[BamaCharm]

"...Islam has shown itself to be anti-Western."

Excellent point IronJack! With all the propoganda about America being "anti-Islam", we need to turn the tables and press home the point that America permits their mosques and the practice of Islam in this country. Can Muslim countries say the same about Christian churces and Jewish synagogues in their countries? The truth as you correctly point out is that Islam is anti-western, anti-anything but Islam. It is the epitome of intolerance and tyranny.

Who can argue this point? Step forward. Who in the media has the guts to ask these questions of Islamic Clerics and the liberal left?

[mafree]

So ... if the US Supreme Court rules that vouchers for private religious schools are constitutional, how do you all feel about this school getting tax money to spread anti-Americanism?

They already do in Milwaukee, and at least two of those schools are Islamic.