Justice Department won't let (FBI) agent testify (in Nichol's state trial)

Indianapolis Star ^ | November 3, 2001 | JAMES PATTERSON

[OKCSubmariner]

While Terry Nichols, already convicted on federal charges in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, returned to court Monday to face the state's case against him, the government was squirming to squelch evidence that Nichols and Timothy McVeigh did not act by themselves.

[OKCSubmariner]

Last week the DOJ refused to let former FBI agents Dan Vogel and Richard Ojeda testify in the Nichols state trial. Vogel and Ojeda had appeared on a CBS 60 II minutes program devoted to the OKC bombing earlier this year and had indicated the FBI had deliberately withheld key evidence in the Nichols and McVeigh trials.

Vogel had said the FBI would eventually destroy itself for violations of basic COnstituional rights he had seen while at the FBI. Ojeda had said that 302 interview reports he had written up on German National Andreas Strassmeyer involvement with McVeigh were never allowed to reach the defense.

The FBI & DOJ are guilty of criminal obstruction of justice and witness tampering in the OKC case especially becasue of FBI foreknowledge and complicity in the bombing(failed sting operation?) as well as the deliberate lack of prosecution of several known John DOes both Middle Eastern(Iraqi/Pakistani) and American (provacateurs,informants from Arizona & Kansas directly involved with McVeigh in OKC at the scene).

Ashcroft and Mueller are no better than Reno and Freeh when it comes to the corruption, the perjury and the obstruction of justice by FBI and DOJ officials. They will not gain GOd's favor in the domestic war on terrorism until they repent and start being honest and truly protective of Amercian citizens and also Christians who are citizens.

[OKCSubmariner]

BUMP

This story was buried (not adeqautely covered) in the FBI controlled newspaper for Oklahoma, the Daily (Disappointment) Oklahoman.

[carenot]

Thanks for posting this.

I've been wondering what was happening.

[OKCSubmariner]

BUMP

[Tymesup]

How can John Ashcroft expect us to believe anything he says when he deals out stuff like this? Thanks for keeping us informed.

[lelio]

"The ruling was that he (Linder) would not permit him (Agent Vogel) to testify because the Department of Justice had taken the position that it would not authorize his testimony," Bergman said Thursday.
I have two problems here: 1) how is Terry Nichol's supposed to defend himself when the FBI says that its agents can't testify? 2) can Vogel testify on his own behalf? Is he somehow sworn to never say anything? Can't he testify as a private individual?

[EarlyBird]

Ashcroft and Mueller are no better than Reno and Freeh when it comes to the corruption, the perjury and the obstruction of justice by FBI and DOJ officials. They will not gain GOd's favor in the domestic war on terrorism until they repent and start being honest and truly protective of Amercian citizens and also Christians who are citizens.

Submariner, thank you for your tireless efforts to keep us all informed about these developments. Unfortunately, it seems that a change in administration has done nothing to alter the position of the FBI on covering up these affidavits.

Do you, as the most well-informed Freeper on this subject, have any sensible theories that would explain WHY the Bush justice administration would want to continue this charade?

This and the recent attempts to seal the records of previous presidents is really starting to make me wonder JUST WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE! Anyone else getting a bit curious?

[lelio]

Do you, as the most well-informed Freeper on this subject, have any sensible theories that would explain WHY the Bush justice administration would want to continue this charade?
Well in this case I think it is somewhat obvious: McVeigh had some middle eastern connections. There is no way this person, who had a nitro-gylerine accident before, would ever transport it again, especially in a Ryder truck.
Either the government knows who his contacts are or they don't. Either way they don't want the American people to know that there was a terrorist event against them and the government couldn't do a thing about it.
And if they came clean now it would cast doubt on anything the agency does. So they are kinda stuck. Once you start lying you have to continue.

[IRtorqued]

I get the feeling the gubment doesn't want their collective faces rubbed into their ineptness. see also fury as bush keeps key to the archives

[OKCSubmariner]

Ashcroft and Mueller are trying to save their own butts and they honestly believe they are serving America's interests by protecting the institutions of the FBI and DOJ with coverups at all costs. They do not think America could survive if she learned the truth about the corruption in the FBI and DOJ. Ashcroft and Mueller have said they are cleaning up the FBI and DOJ but I doubt they are trying very hard since they are spending most of their time covering up the previous coverups so they can buy time (they say?)to clean up the FBI and DOJ in the future.

They are arrogant in their reliance on their belief that there are not enough Americans with enough clout to stop them and the FBI and DOJ coverups. That is, they think and believe they can get away with breaking the law, not enforcing the law properly and not adequately protecting Americans.

Given this mentality on their part, it makes me concernned these men will not have the proper wisdom, the best judgement, adequate leadership and integrity skills to successfully protect Americans from terrorists already in the US and coming to the US.

But all the while they are slowly but surely creating a police state (greatly reduced freedoms) in America with laws which may never be rescinded once the war on terrorism subsides.

[chantal7]

"The Supreme Court said (in United States vs. Touhy) that a state court judge could not hold an employee of the Department of Justice in contempt for failing to comply with a subpoena if they had been ordered not to provide the information by their superior," Bergman said. "Tom Majors, who is an assistant U.S. attorney, testified at Monday's hearing that he had received a letter from the Department of Justice refusing to authorize such testimony."

This is just so wrong! The President, the DOJ, FBI..none of these agencies or any of our branches of government or their people are above the law and this ruling..The US vs. Touhy and the Nichols case show us that the government thinks that it and it's people are above the law.

WE, the people, need to take those arrogant, egomanics down a notch or two. This really makes me mad!

If they won't let the witnesses and the agents who know the truth testify in court, then they should let Nichols go. If they can't give him a fair trial with all the facts laid out on the table then they have no business putting him in jail because he hasn't had a fair trial therefore his prior trial is null and void and if they won't give him a fair trial then they should not be allowed to try him again.

This is as bad as the federal government infringing on people's right of double jeopardy. Once a person is tried in any American court of law, even if the government doesn't like the jury's ruling then they shouldn't be allowed to get a second chance by letting the feds have a go at it or visa versa. Especially, with the feds' history of lying, framing, falsifying evidence and forensic tests.

We need to get a grip on our government, like yesterday. It's totally out of control!

[chantal7]

Isn't there a law that states that any one in law enforcement, the DOJ, and/or judges, prosecuters, etc. that says that if any of the above mentioned lie in a court case involving a person that could get a death sentence and they are found to be lying, that they themselves face a trial and the death sentence for possibly putting an innocent person on death row?

[lelio]

"The Supreme Court said (in United States vs. Touhy) that a state court judge could not hold an employee of the Department of Justice in contempt for failing to comply with a subpoena if they had been ordered not to provide the information by their superior,"
Is that a double, wait triple negative? Okay I will try and dissect:
You subpoena Joe from the FBI to testify. Normally they would be forced to do so or be held in contempt.
Joe's boss says that Joe can't testify. That nullifies the next step which would be to find Joe in contempt.
This is crap, unless there is a matter of national security at stake. I would just like to see the FBI claim that and have people say "Why? Wasn't it just a right-wing nut that blew up the federal building?"

[Swordmaker]

We foolishly put out government into the hands of a criminal who proceeded to fill the upper and mid-management positions of the Department of Justice, the FBI, the CIA, the NTSB, Customs, DEA and other investigatory agencies with other criminals. For the first time in history an incoming president required the resignations of all Federal Attorneys and replaced them all with his cronies.

Eight more years of advancing those with a willingness to go along with Clinton's program and side-lining and marginalizing honest agents has resulted in a totally corrupted government.

George W. Bush has NOT cleaned house as should have been done.

[Texbob]

The FBI and the Justice Dept. are the new Keystone Kops.