ALAN KEYES: Justifying War

WND ^ | 11/10/01 | Dr. Alan Keyes

[marajade]

"I've seen and heard plenty of Alan Keyes - and he is by no stretch of the imagination a Bush supporter."

Keyes has come out publicly stating that he is not a Bush Republican (whatever that means).

[marajade]

"Sorry you feel this way."

That poster is in no means alone either. What is Alan doing to change that?

[Amelia]

This is a fine thing, to disagree without insult. You might think about applying the same standard to your remarks about Keyes.

Richard, I must be dense - would you mind stating just what in DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet's posts you found "insulting" to Keyes?

[deport]

I am not a Bush Republican!

[Mad Dawg]

The first thing that happened on this thread when I dared to suggest that President Bush was not obligated to give him a job was - guess what - an insult directed at me by a Keyes supporter. (In other words, you might think about applying some consistency to your remarks.)

I don't understand. The first response to your sugestion was Gelato's, and the only thing that might be (mis)construed as an insult was his characterization of what you said (not of you) as an "extreme exaggeration".

I agree that the SECOND response got personal. I hate that stuff.

But then there's the "applying some consistency to your remarks" remark. Did rdf insult you? He's not responsible for what everyone, or even every Keyester, says to you. How could he be?

Further I saw nobody suggesting that Bush was obligated to give Keyes a job. Is there a Keyester here who thinks he is?

Mind you, it might be pretty prudent to do so, if Keyes would take it, which I doubt. One thing I would consider doing with something that I thought was a loose canon would be to tie it down.

But all this is beside the point. My own personal preference woud be for Keyesters and Shrubonistas (and in this thread it was a Keyester who started the digression) to stick to the topic. Vain dreamer that I am.

I think Gelato nailed it. There is indeed a set of "self-evident" principles which undergird our polity. They are broad enough to encompass a very great deal - excluding bald nihilism on the one hand and any worldview which denies or abrogates the dignity of each human being on the other.

These principles are sufficient to justify our response to terrorism, especially that of Osama Yo' Mama. Whatever our disgreements with Islam itself, we need not go into them to find ample justification for bringing terrorists and their supporters to bay.

Seems to me, anyway.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

And isn't that more important than our various disagreements?

This is just not complicated. Though I was not the one to bring it up, I was simply addressing the notion that President Bush has somehow been negligent by not offering this man who has repeatedly been disrespectful to him some sort of position in the Bush Administration, or that Keyes ought to be running the RNC - which, in my view, is absurd. That's all. I wasn't even talking about this specific article, nor would anything in this article change my opinion of Alan Keyes.

There's nothing personal about it, and that's really the only point I was trying to make.

[Torie]

Yep, I don't disagree with a word of it. It was a thoughtful commentary. There is a subtext between the lines about fetuses perhaps with which I disagree, but only if you are familiar with Keyes' cadences. It is a bit disappointing the the focus of the replies is not on the commentary in question, but scar tissue abounds. But focusing on old or new grudges is not the way for me. It is not healthy, at least with those worth cultivating. Someday, I would like to have a lunch with Keyes. It might be interesting. We are so different in so many ways (the cool cerebral secular neocon WASP of moderate temperment in general versus the passionate but nevertheless intellectual advocate for certain take to its ultimate absolutist logical conclusion religious Catholic sometimes paleo, sometimes libertarian sometime Burkean conservative), but still we might have some common denominator that would allow some useful exploration. It would be worth finding out. The only problem is that am nobody, and Keyes is somebody. :)

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I don't understand. The first response to your sugestion was Gelato's, and the only thing that might be (mis)construed as an insult was his characterization of what you said (not of you) as an "extreme exaggeration".

I agree that the SECOND response got personal. I hate that stuff.

You're correct - it was not Gelato's post I was referring to. It was the second one.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Give me a break... It's as clear why as the nose on my own face.

It is to me, too. I'm sorry to hear your character has been called into question because you are not in awe of Alan Keyes.

I was reflecting today and trying to remember a time when President (or candidate) Bush demonstrated an attitude of disrespect to Alan Keyes, and I could not think of one. If he did, I missed it.

Bush values loyalty, and he is right to do so. He can count on none from Alan Keyes. If by chance Keyes is searching for the reason he has no position in this administration or the RNC, he need look no further than the mirror for his answer.

[marajade]

"I'm sorry to hear your character has been called into question because you are not in awe of Alan Keyes."

And it came from Keyes own spokesman no less.

That's okay I'm a big girl and I can take it.

I just get sick of Keyes superior moral attitude that no one else seems to be able to attain.

I guess Keyes forgot the part in the Bible where Jesus says he desires mercy not sacrifice.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Richard, I must be dense - would you mind stating just what in DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet's posts you found "insulting" to Keyes?

I hear the theme from "Jeopardy" right now. : ) (Actually, I could probably guess - but it wasn't personal - it was just my observation of his professional style.)

[Mad Dawg]

All Keyes has done is criticize Bush, even to the point of calling him "evil."
and
I guess Keyes forgot the part in the Bible where Jesus says he desires mercy not sacrifice. Yeah, and then there's the part about false witness.

You cannot show from any published writing by Keyes that he called Bush evil. He may have said he did an evil thing - but to the extent that politics involves good and evil, such a statement would be neither unusual nor remarkable. He may have questioned his motives. But only perfect people have unquestionable motives.

If I am wrong, as I often am, show me where, in so many words, he called Bush evil.

If you can't (heck, even if you can) maybe we could discuss whether Keyes and the President are right to say that we are not fighting and ought not to fight a religious war.

[Paulie]

"So why don't they use you?"

First - I don't have any answers for you.

Last election I was a strong Keyster and I was angry he was ignored and poo-poo'd by both the GOP and the media. I was also quite disappointed that Keyes was not offered a high ranking position of the Bush cabinet (and to think Christy Whitman is a member of the Bush team!)

I believe a lot has to do with Keyes' strong and uncompromising opposition to abortion. Above all Keyes is a man of principle and that doesn't sit well with the GOP elite apparently. Just my opinion.

[marajade]

Oh come on... everyone knows he said it.

[Rowdee]

..."Yes, Dr. Keyes does seem to be supporting the same position as the administration. Just a thought -- and I'm sure you'll think it's nit-picking -- but he might have made a little headway against those who say he's always "Bush-bashing" if he'd just added "As our President has said," in front of "The war against terrorism is not a war against Islam."

It's a small thing, but one that would have made it abundantly clear that in this case, because "he thinks it true and wise", he's supporting the position of the administration."....

This is soooooo rich.

Excuse me, Amelia, for using your response to rdf, BUT.....

rdf and Keyes for President......I swear before God that when I responded to KFP, I had started to make a 'snarling, half-assed snide remark' to the effect of bitching that Keyes had done it again---this time deliberately not using President Bush's name as a way to show his disgust of, hatred for, jealousy of, or ________________(fill in the blank) for the most beloved and wonderful and greatest President since before the founding of this republic.

I opted NOT to do it because I knew rdf would come back at me asking me to try to remain civil and not to inflame the feelings of others, yada yada yada. Especially seeing as how it does no good to attempt to do so.

And SOAB, if a Bush supporter doesn't come along and complain about it!!

Go figure.......incredible, absolutely incredible.....well, rdf, henceforth I shall put my honest feelings in print just to be the martyr and take the bullet someone would mean for a Bushie!!!!!

Is this world upside down or what!!!

[TrueBeliever9]

So now is a lovely moment for various Keyes haters

I don't hate Dr. Keyes - I just don't respect him anymore as a man of truth! He of all people should be willing to engage in thoughtful and strategic debate on this issue! And he should welcome the opportunity instead of burying his head in the sand!

[Fintan]

It still amazes (and infuriates) me that in this feminized, PC-polluted culture we live in, we have to justify retaliation for the mass murder of 5,000 Americans on our own soil..

[Amelia]

Excuse me, Amelia, for using your response to rdf.....

Why, because you mischaracterized what I wrote for your own self-aggrandizement? You are learning well from your mentor!

[rdf]

I think Keyes means what he said. And I know that he is in favor of sliting the terrorists' throats. But not in the name of a religious war. Rather, a war in defense of human dignity.

[Rowdee]

You are soooooo cute and half clever, I might add.....are you now trying to backpedal from what you wrote?

Hugs and Regards.....