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GOP Was the Real Victim in Fla. Vote
LA Times ^ | 11/12/01 | John R. Lott Jr. and James K. Glassman

Posted on 11/12/2001 4:22:40 AM PST by WxMan2000

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:31 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

But if spoiled ballots do indicate disenfranchisement, then the new data show that, by a dramatic margin, the group most victimized in the Florida voting was African American Republicans.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2000election; 200111; acorn; blacklash; deneenborelli; florida; floridarecount; freedomworks; gorewar; project21
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Clink on the link for the full article....an interesting read. We'll NEVER here this from Terry McAuliffe..
1 posted on 11/12/2001 4:22:40 AM PST by WxMan2000
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To: WxMan2000
The events reported that supposedly led to disenfranchised voters has been exposed as a fraud and lies. It is a non-issue.
2 posted on 11/12/2001 4:30:35 AM PST by WOOHOO
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: JohnHuang2
How do you do that mass mailing linky dink thingie? I LOVE this article....the most interesting twist on the Florida vote count..really an interesting read!!

LOL as I remember Mary Frances Berry and her Civil Rights Commission hearings on the Florida vote!!

I'm almost glad Clinton sneaked her in for another term as chairman of the Civil Rights Voting Commission, just so she can continue to make a fool out of herself.

And don't forget Allan J. Lichtman. He was a willing pawn in perpetuating the lies Berry, the Florida Democratic Party, Gore/Lieberman, and the national media tried sell to the American people.

4 posted on 11/12/2001 4:42:59 AM PST by YaYa123
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To: semper_libertas
From the article:

These results take into account a wide range of factors that influence spoiled-ballot rates, including education, gender, income, age, number of absentee votes, voting-machine type, ballot type and whether votes were counted at the precinct or centrally.

What I want to know is how this information is available when looking at the ballots and making decisions. I thought we had "secret" ballots in this country.

5 posted on 11/12/2001 4:48:14 AM PST by basil
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To: WxMan2000
In addition, we found that the overall rate of spoiled ballots was 14% higher when the county election supervisor was a Democrat, and 31% higher when the supervisor was an African American Democrat.

Whoa! I'd love to have someone do an investigation and explain why this is the case. But if anyone did, they'd be branded as a racist, to be sure.

6 posted on 11/12/2001 4:49:54 AM PST by randita
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To: WxMan2000
If the election officials had to determine the intent of the voters, would it not follow that the voters should now determine the intent of the media in conducting a pseudo recount.
7 posted on 11/12/2001 4:50:21 AM PST by chainsaw
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To: WxMan2000
wow......a fair article...I am rather surprised.
8 posted on 11/12/2001 4:55:09 AM PST by rwfromkansas
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: WxMan2000
The most interesting fact from this story is that African-American Republicans were 50 times more likely to have an overvote (i.e. both Gore and Bush punched) that AA Dems. This is strong circumstantial evidence that ballots were tampered with by election officials, such as inserting a metal wire through the "Gore" hole in a stack of cards, thereby invalidating all Bush votes.

This explains a couple things. One, how there were so many "hanging chads" for Gore. And two, why the dems never asked that overvotes be counted.

10 posted on 11/12/2001 5:02:40 AM PST by TomB
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To: TomB
Ref: your #10. Good point, because if they had asked for the overvotes to be examined then the question of election fraud would have been raised without a doubt. I think that is what was behind Baker's always veiled references to "mischief." He was warning the dems away from that scenario, and in the final analysis, it could have been the fear of having that exposed that kept Gore at bay rather than a stupid reliance on the undervotes. Hmmm.. Food for thought, no?

regards

11 posted on 11/12/2001 5:07:40 AM PST by okiedust
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To: WxMan2000
This SHOULD be the lead story in every TV news show today -- because it's the ultimate 'man bites dog' story -- but I expect that it will be conspicuously ignored.
12 posted on 11/12/2001 5:11:16 AM PST by WL-law
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To: WileyCoyote22
Do ya suppose W has the goods on them and their rigged election and gave them the choice to either stop the nonsense or get exposed for the frauds that they are ?

Now THERE'S a thought.

My personal opinion is that the "overvotes" were caused by someone pushing a spike through the "Gore" hole on ballots (and that the PBC "Buchanan" mis-votes were caused by a person/people running the spike through the wrong hole, which they discovered AFTER they had put a bunch of them into the ballot box. Since they couldn't get those ballots back, they started riling up the old folks and screaming about the butterfly ballot. IMHO.) either before or after people voted. All Gore votes would be unaffected, but everyone else's votes would become "overvotes." This may also explain the dimpled and hanging chads, but I think that those more likely came from putting multiple ballots into a voting machine before punching.

Anyhow, I'm just a hippie chick sitting at home on my couch - if I can figure this stuff out, I would hope that our President's team did, too. Maybe they DO have the goods on the massive fraud that I really believe took place in this past election.

13 posted on 11/12/2001 5:12:13 AM PST by small_l_libertarian
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To: TomB
Unfortunatly, this article nor anyone else is going to bring up alligations of vote tampering. In fact Terry McAwful and the DemocRATs insist that it's the GOP that deals in vote fraud.
14 posted on 11/12/2001 5:16:45 AM PST by SolitaryMan
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To: TomB
This is strong circumstantial evidence that ballots were tampered with by election officials, such as inserting a metal wire through the "Gore" hole in a stack of cards, thereby invalidating all Bush votes.

Nail on the head, sir!

In other words, it is the isolated fact of being a Republican that makes an African American vastly more likely to have his or her ballot declared invalid.
This is just a sad example of the liberal left's attempt to keep the Presidency at any rate. They would disenfranchise their own mother if it would gain them one more vote.
15 posted on 11/12/2001 5:18:50 AM PST by callisto
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To: WxMan2000
Resolved: African American Republicans are smarter, as a group, than African American Democrats. I think this is true and demographic information shows that black republicans, like white republicans are more upwardly mobile.

If this proposition is true, how to explain black republicans being _50_ times more likely to overvote.

Only fraud can explain this.

I also want to echo what someone else has said: How do they seperate Republican ballots from Democrat ballots so they can know these things.
16 posted on 11/12/2001 5:50:19 AM PST by BillCompton
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To: TomB
I've asked for this a half dozen times on this forum; does any body have proof that only 10% of blacks voted for Bush?
17 posted on 11/12/2001 7:08:15 AM PST by big bad easter bunny
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To: WxMan2000
From the article:

These results are disturbing. They show that, if there was a concerted effort to prevent votes from being counted in Florida, that effort was directed at Republicans, not at African Americans.

This conclusion conforms with another fact that the new data reveal: Among white voters, Republicans were much more likely than Democrats to have spoiled ballots.

Yep, the demonRATS can't win the hearts and minds of Americans, so they misuse the courts and they steal elections.

18 posted on 11/12/2001 7:20:27 AM PST by freedomcrusader
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To: WxMan2000
The most disenfranchised/victimized group from the Florida election was the block of panhandle voters who turned around and went home befreo voting, because the major media outlets all called the state for Gore.

Anyone know those numbers? Did any of the articles even mention it?

19 posted on 11/12/2001 7:21:30 AM PST by irish guard
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To: WxMan2000
This is the biggest story of the day, IMHO. Black Republicans ballots were invalidated by Dem. headed precincts. This story must be added to the USCCR's racist report.
20 posted on 11/12/2001 9:09:42 AM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: TomB; okiedust
I can explain this away easy. Not only do democrats commit vote fraud by fabricating new votes for their candidate, but more importantly, nullifying a vote your opponent is just as good. democrats in the inner cities do this all the time. All you have to do is punch out another chad. I have no doubt that this is what was done in the 2000 election.
21 posted on 11/12/2001 9:23:02 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: My Favorite Headache; gonzo; JulieRNR21; summer; RMDupree; BigWaveBetty; Bryan
The new findings show that African American Republicans who voted in Florida were in excess of 50 times more likely than the average African American to have had a ballot declared invalid because it was spoiled.

These results take into account a wide range of factors that influence spoiled-ballot rates, including education, gender, income, age, number of absentee votes, voting-machine type, ballot type and whether votes were counted at the precinct or centrally.

In other words, it is the isolated fact of being a Republican that makes an African American vastly more likely to have his or her ballot declared invalid.

These results are disturbing. They show that, if there was a concerted effort to prevent votes from being counted in Florida, that effort was directed at Republicans, not at African Americans.

Well, surprise, surprise! Do you think AG Bob Butterworth, Kwasi, JJ, Ms. Berry will apologize to Jeb, GW and the GOP? International papers all picked up the USCCR's racist report. The UN/NAACP is still crying racism. This is the biggest recount story of the year, IMHO.

22 posted on 11/12/2001 10:15:23 AM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: WxMan2000
it is the isolated fact of being a Republican that makes an African American vastly more likely to have his or her ballot declared invalid.

In addition, we found that the overall rate of spoiled ballots was 14% higher when the county election supervisor was a Democrat, and 31% higher when the supervisor was an African American Democrat.

Yoo hoo, Jesse, where are you? (probably counting your money)

23 posted on 11/12/2001 10:17:02 AM PST by lowbridge
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Very interesting, RC. Thanks for the flag. (And, I would guess no apology is forthcoming from anyone in this matter!)
24 posted on 11/12/2001 10:25:47 AM PST by summer
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To: WxMan2000
In addition, we found that the overall rate of spoiled ballots was 14% higher when the county election supervisor was a Democrat, and 31% higher when the supervisor was an African American Democrat.
So, if spoilage should be viewed as disenfranchising African American Democrats, the new figures strongly suggest that Democrats were disenfranchising African American Republicans.

Wow....I never would have imagined seeing this actually reported!

25 posted on 11/12/2001 10:35:20 AM PST by PogySailor
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To: basil
"What I want to know is how this information is available when looking at the ballots and making decisions. I thought we had "secret" ballots in this country."

Race could be inferred by the ethnic composition of the precinct.

Democrat vs Republican could be determined with accuracy by the voting pattern in other races.

In other words, there would be sufficient data available to support the assertions made by Lott and Glassman.

26 posted on 11/12/2001 10:40:43 AM PST by okie01
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To: rwfromkansas
"......a fair article...I am rather surprised."

Don't be. This isn't an LATimes original article. That is, Lott and Glassman aren't LATimes reporters.

Instead, it's a syndicated article, or column, by Lott (a professor at the University of Chicago) and Glassman (a libertarian economist who writes for the WashPost).

And the circumstantial evidence in support of vote tampering by Democrats, to systematically spoil Republican ballots, is statistically overwhelming.

Easily accomplished in punch card precincts by taking a stack of cards and driving a wire through the Gore chad -- which a.) doesn't disturb any existing vote for Gore, b.) creates a vote for Gore when the voter chose not to cast a ballot for President, and c.) nullifies any Bush (or Buchanan) votes by turning them into overvotes.

27 posted on 11/12/2001 10:49:00 AM PST by okie01
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To: BillCompton
"How do they seperate Republican ballots from Democrat ballots so they can know these things?"

Easy. The down-ballot voting pattern.

28 posted on 11/12/2001 10:50:22 AM PST by okie01
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To: WxMan2000
Wait, this is in the LA Times?

???

What's happening to our leftist media outlets? Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but this is kinda shocking.

I wonder if they're trying to get back all the subscribers that have been jumping ship ever since 9/11...

BTW, does anyone remember how a few weeks ago the media were saying that they didn't want to release the latest recount analysis/data because they didn't want to be divisive? They were trying to imply that the data pointed to a Gore win, without actually saying anything about the data itself....

I think they tried to not come out with this information, to suppress it. I wonder where the pressure came from for them to finally release it anyway....

It'd be hilarious if the libs were pushing for the info to come out anyway, talk about having something blow up in their faces, LOL...

-penny

29 posted on 11/12/2001 10:55:18 AM PST by Penny1
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Bump! Everyone must send this article out to everyone they know.
30 posted on 11/12/2001 11:21:14 AM PST by My Favorite Headache
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Very disturbing but not surpeising....the RATs play dirty....they will do everything to win!

Too bad most Americans will never know about this! But I'll email it everywhere I can......suggest we all do that.

31 posted on 11/12/2001 11:43:24 AM PST by JulieRNR21
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To: My Favorite Headache
I agree. E-mailing aplenty today.

E-mail MANCOW
E-mail Rush
E-mail Sean Hannity
E-mail Ken Hamblin
E-mail Drudge
E-mail G. Gordon Liddy
E-mail all Reps. at once, or media outlets

32 posted on 11/12/2001 12:12:23 PM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: WxMan2000
This is a keeper. I'm bookmarking it.
33 posted on 11/12/2001 2:22:12 PM PST by Jean S
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To: okie01; basil
I don't know about FL. In CA, the ballots are (by colour too?) coded by party. It wouldn't be hard to know what the series of ballot serial numbers were that corresponded to GOP registered voters and other parties if the same happens in FL.

Mix in demographic data for precincts and a thorough statistical analysis can reveal the types of information they claim in the article.

34 posted on 11/12/2001 3:32:24 PM PST by newzjunkey
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To: BillCompton
See my reply here for one way they could easily separate Dem from GOP (and other) voter ballots.
35 posted on 11/12/2001 3:34:22 PM PST by newzjunkey
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To: newzjunkey
And yes, I'm talking about the punch-card type ballot.
36 posted on 11/12/2001 3:34:57 PM PST by newzjunkey
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To: okie01
This is the issue/event tat brought me to FR ... Statistical Evidence of Voter Fraud
37 posted on 11/12/2001 3:39:36 PM PST by gjenkins
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To: gjenkins; Robert A. Cook, PE
I recall that particular post from Robert Cook very well. I contributed a separate study, comparing Buchanan's votes to the votes that other Reform Party candidates received in PBC, which seemed to establish that Pat's vote totals didn't seem out of line at all (he was only the third leading vote getter among Reform candidates in the county, and neither of the others ran countywide).

But I believe Cook's study in PBC and JasonC's study of the national vote totals clearly revealed compelling evidence of widespread voter fraud. Committed, no doubt, by the you-know-whos for the benefit of you-know-what.

If Cook's well-reasoned piece brought you to FR, he should get the credit for it.

38 posted on 11/12/2001 4:17:06 PM PST by okie01
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To: WxMan2000
This is one of the most interesting articles I've read in a year. Forwarding it to EVERYONE I KNOW!!!!!
39 posted on 11/12/2001 4:33:44 PM PST by Reagan's_Mom
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To: rwfromkansas
wow......a fair article...I am rather surprised.

Surprised is right. Unbelievable is more like it. From the LA Times no less. I want to know why. Given Bush's sky-high poll numbers has concern for bottom line (subscribers, readership) trumped their liberal ideology? Has Bush become acceptable to the left -- was he all along? What's going on here?

40 posted on 11/12/2001 4:38:05 PM PST by KillerWabbit
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl; summer
We were there, babes, and THAT'S what counted!

Most people don't remember that Florida used to be a democRAT-Machine State, and it took years to correct the blatent fraudulant voting stuff that the RATS tried last November.

It'll take another 8 years to get rid of the FSSC assholes, but they'll eventually be gone too.

Florida is actually 2/3 to 3/4 Republican or Conservative now, and it will show in the 2002 Elections! Stay well and vigilant....FRegards

41 posted on 11/12/2001 6:30:29 PM PST by gonzo
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To: gonzo
Hey gonzo,

Thanks for the flag -- but, I don't know if those numbers are accurate, only because I think FL has a growing independent, swing vote.

And, while it's true that such vote may well go GOP or Conservative, remember, this is a state with two US senators who are Democrats. (And, a GOP gov and GOP dominated Legislature.)

While I believe our fab FL gov will easily win re-election, I also think it will be a long time before GOP people take the two US senate seats in Florida. It's just a reflection of the actual independent, swing nature of this state. It goes either way, depending on the candidate and the mood of the independent voters. They are the ones who still decided elections in this state.

Sincerely, an independent voter :)
42 posted on 11/12/2001 6:34:53 PM PST by summer
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To: summer; gonzo
decided = decide
43 posted on 11/12/2001 6:35:50 PM PST by summer
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To: gonzo
It'll take another 8 years to get rid of the FSSC assholes, but they'll eventually be gone too.

YES! I like your attitude, gonzo.

This particular story deserves widespread play. I've been contacting local and state GOP officials, asked Gov. Jeb to forward the article to Bob Butterworth (with a request for a personal apology for Gov. Bush and Katherine Harris), Rev. Peterson, Rush, etc....That racist smear was more than "politics," it was criminally inflammatory.

Florida Freepers fight back.(^:

44 posted on 11/12/2001 6:43:01 PM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: Mercuria; AnnaZ; Rejoyce; rebuildus; NewDestiny; Trueblackman
Something of interest for Jesse Lee Peterson, Ezola Foster, J.J. Johnson, Project 21, et al.

Article link

45 posted on 11/12/2001 6:57:55 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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Anothe thread: A MUST READ: GOP Was the Real Victim in Fla. Vote
46 posted on 11/12/2001 7:02:22 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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To: WxMan2000
So, African American Republicans had their ballots double punched? I'm sooooooooooo surprised. Democrats kept some of those ballot boxes for 4 and 5 hours after the polls closed. One wonders if there's a connection...
47 posted on 11/12/2001 7:22:10 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: TomB
You get it:

This is strong circumstantial evidence that ballots were tampered with by election officials, such as inserting a metal wire through the "Gore" hole in a stack of cards, thereby invalidating all Bush votes.

This explains a couple things. One, how there were so many "hanging chads" for Gore. And two, why the dems never asked that overvotes be counted.

48 posted on 11/12/2001 7:23:45 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: GOPJ
Bump
49 posted on 11/13/2001 4:49:10 AM PST by Coop
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To: Brandonmark
This is unbelieveable! The RATS have been screaming while hiding the fact it was Republicans that were disenfranchised. Where is Jesse Jackson since it is blacks who were disenfranchised just like he touted or will he stay silent since it was Republicans instead of democRATS who were disenfranchised?
50 posted on 11/13/2001 10:13:32 AM PST by PhiKapMom
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