Posted on 12/12/2001 7:21:41 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
Let me try to answer your question again. "If Jesus is not shown in the message, how will others know He is there?" From a catholic perspective, Mary NEVER says anything or does anything contrary to the will of God. She is the Theotokos. So, right off the bat we know that Our Lady is in perfect conformity to the will of God.
I think that will help alot, if you can realize our undestanding and acceptance of Mary as intercessor.
Also, in the Eucharist we do not see Jesus, yet He is present; Body, Blood Soul and Divinity. Our Lady of Guadalupe is pregnant, carrying Jesus in her womb, to us Jesus is there.
I have heard apologists say that the perspective of Catholics and Protestants is different. With Protestants it is the "either/or" thinking, ie it's either Jesus or Mary, in which case it can only be Jesus.
Catholics think in a "both/and" perspective. It is both Jesus and Mary.
Of course we do not think of Mary as God, we think of her as intercessor. But she is with her Son, as she is in the Gospel.
So I think that is a part of the miscommunication/misunderstanding. With our view of Mary as intercessor, to us it makes perfect sense.
I don't know if that answer will be sufficient for you, like I said, there are many more learned people than I, including saints and doctors of the Church who are much more eloquent than I who can give you a better understanding.
Best wishes.
They were Holy, through Christ.
Isn't she wonderful?
Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mystical Rose, make intercession for our Holy Church, protect the sovereign Pontiff, help all those who invoke you in their necessities, and since you are ever Virgin Mary and Mother of the true God, obtain for us from your most Holy Son the grace of keeping our faith, of sweet hope in the midst of the bitterness of life, of burning charity, and the precious gift of final perseverance. Amen.
I remember when I read the story for the first time when Our Lady called Juan Diego "my little son", melted this heart of stone.
Ave Maria Virgo Fidelis
Thank you Jesus, for giving us your Mother to be our Mother also.
I also believe that, as some have said, Mary will play a role in converting Islamists - Fatima seems to play a major part in this.
Very Orwellian. Do you perhaps mean, "unambiguous" - not a word, according to Webster's. Ambiguous - "not clear"; unambiguous - clear?
Really, you have to read the books. One of the books I have that I recommend is "The Wonder of Guadalupe" by Francis Johnston, available from TAN books and publishers. They have a website.
Best wishes. And thank you for the prophetic blessing!
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After reading this post, I can safely say to you "Mission accomplished." Thank you so much for posting it, it meant more to me than I can tell you. Pax domini sit semper vobiscum.
Peace be with you.
I believe that you are sidestepping the specifics of my question by responding the way you have. Your comments have very little to do with the issue, which is that of Mary appearing as a pregnant woman. Of course God uses humans. The point is that in this particular message, there is no glorification of Jesus (aside from the single reference to the Almighty, and that doesn't even address Jesus by name) but rather it appears to glorify Mary. I know that is the standard reaction from non-catholics when looking at this kind of thing but honestly I can't interpret it any other way.
However, sinkspur, you miss my point. I never said Roman Catholics were not Christian. You should not assume neither I nor biblewonk think that you are not Christians. I did say, what I said. If you have a sound Biblical and Theological basis for Mariology, then give it to me.
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