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TWA 800 - Testimony of Commander William S. Donaldson III, (ret.)
Various

Posted on 12/20/2001 5:04:28 PM PST by Asmodeus

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To: Asmodeus
As HAL says to CMDR Poole in '2001' : "I'm sorry Frank, I'm afraid you missed it."
You didn't bother to read the report itself.. you never saw the fact that the FBI interviewed all witnesses and that they won't talk to anyone now. Did you read that? Isn't reading fundemental? You get really sarcastic with anyone who won't go along with the trial ballons of "The Navy did it" and "Faulty wiring". Now, if the wiring thing were true, wouldn't ALL 747's been grounded? They weren't. This means something. Figure it out. If the Navy did it, a ship commander would have been canned and in Levinworth. Again, nothing. This means something, figure it out.

Gee, I've also noticed that when anyone with any ties to the military says anything against you're accepted theory.. you pull out your 'expert' graphic.. Where's YOUR experts with proof of a Navy/wiring fault that isn't politically motivated or sanctioned by Bubba himself? Now that's two mil types I know of that are saying 'missile'. I'm inclined to trust mil types (Having been one myself and knowing the capabilties of a Stinger) over anything Clinton(Traitor! Provable!) sanctioned. Here, take this compass and this magnet and go navigate those trees over there. Don't stop until you find the wiseman.

41 posted on 12/24/2001 8:39:51 AM PST by Darksheare
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To: coloradan
Let's also not forget that:

The Navy originally denied they were in the area.
The Death on the High Seas Act was suspended so that families of the victims could collect more damages.
Boeing received a large contract shortly thereafter, enabling them to buy one of their competitors.
Monica Weaver and Larissa Uzupis, two teenagers who died in the crash.

42 posted on 12/24/2001 1:25:35 PM PST by Tymesup
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To: Asmodeus
Thank you for posting those animations. You claim that they are "a figment of Goddard's imagination." With the links you used I was able to find the page you lifted them from but did not share with us.

At that page we discover the that animations include the witnesses sketches. I followed several of Goddard's links to the original witness reports and found the sketches there as he shows them. These witness sketches show the opposite of what you want us to believe, they show us that witnesses said the streak came from the surface. How could you have overlooked this detail?

Asmodeus, you try to make yourself out to be a witness expert and yet you managed to confuse the witness accounts with "Goddard's imagination." It seems it's your arguments that are a "figment of imagination."

43 posted on 12/24/2001 9:15:48 PM PST by VectoRama
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To: Asmodeus
"Yet, not one expert witness report analyst has ever agreed with Commander Donaldson's allegations about the observations of the witnesses. Not even one."

FALSE! You Sir are the most incompetent "analyst" I've even seen! Look at this....

Having followed the link to the official report of witness 649, I found it contained a letter from a real expert witness analyst from the Suffolk County Police Department (Douglas S. Matulewich, Deputy Inspector, Commanding Officer, Marine Bureau) who was employed to determine if TWA 800 witness accounts indicate that a missile was involved. Inspector Matulewich along with an agent from the Defense Intelligence Agency triangulated several witness accounts and concluded this,

Witness Expert: "I became involved in a joint effort to determine the possibility of a missile shooting down TWA flight 800. The objective was to determine if the observations of eye witnesses could be plotted on a chart to determine a location from which a missile was shot. ... The above Latitude and Longitude locations INDICATES THE CENTER OF AN AREA THAT IS STRONGLY RECOMMENDED TO BE SEARCHED AND AT A MINIMUM A ONE (1) nautical mile area should be searched for the remains of equipment that would launch a portable missile. The possibility exists that the equipment was discarded and now remains on the ocean floor." From official NTSB report.

All caps are in the original. You can read that on page 265 of 446 of the pdf file in the first link in this reply. There is it Asmodeus, an expert inspector who reviewed the witness accounts and concluded that they are enough like missile witness accounts to justify a massive search for residual missile parts. How could Asmodeus have overlooked this detail if he is the master analyst he implies and is sufficently versed in this case to render such strong opinion? It seems that Asmodeus capitalizes on what people don't know, either that or his tin-foil hat is getting too tight.

Now get this, the expert analyst Commander Donaldson found evidence of the FBI's search that was recommended based on the expert conclusion that the witness accounts support a missile strike. If the expert analysts and the FBI believed what Asmodeus believes they would never have recommended and conducted such a massive search of the ocean. It seems that Asmodeus' beliefs expose him as the real tin-foil hatter.

44 posted on 12/24/2001 10:35:50 PM PST by VectoRama
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To: VectoRama; Coloradan; Rokke
See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/579114/posts?page=441#441
45 posted on 12/27/2001 11:25:56 AM PST by Asmodeus
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To: VectoRama
Senator Charles Grassley "A January 1997 ATF report, which will be discussed today, showed that the cause of the crash of the TWA Flight 800 was a mechanical failure. The FBI did not want that report out. It tried to suppress it. The FBI feared that if the case became a criminal case and went to court, the ATF report would be discoverable through Brady doctrine and might help exculpate the potential suspects.

But the FBI had the cart before the horse. You cannot start suppressing information when there is no crime. The vast majority of explosions like TWA are due to accidents, not to sabotage. For the FBI to assume first that an explosion is sabotage reveals its lack of experience in dealing with explosion incidents. Indeed, the FBI rarely investigates explosions and fires. Other law enforcement agencies, most notably the ATF, investigate many explosions and have lots of experience.

The proof is in the pudding. The ATF called the cause of the crash correctly, 10 months before the FBI did. In fact, it is fair to say that the FBI hindered the investigation and the public's and the families' right to know, and in the process, in my view, the FBI risked public safety."

_______________________________

The FBI's own Chief Forensic Metallurgist and other experts told Kallstrom the same thing less than 2 months after the crash:

GRASSLEY: When did you arrive at the hanger in Calverton, New York where the plane was being reconstructed?

TOBIN: I arrived on August 4th of 1996.

-----

GRASSLEY: Within 30 days of arriving at Calverton, what was your professional assessment of as to whether the cause of the crash was a bomb?

TOBIN: It progressed from an inclination of viewing the earmarks as possibly a bomb, but it changed rather quickly to confirmation within my mind that there was no indication of a bomb and unlikely to be that of a missile within the first 30 days.

-----

GRASSLEY: At some point, did the bomb techs agree with yours and the NTSB's assessment that the cause of the crash was not a bomb?

TOBIN: Yes, Senator. I would estimate that probably four to six weeks -- after about four to six weeks, we were all unanimously or near unanimously on the same page. And all being the bomb techs, the National Transportation Safety Board and the metallurgy or the material science interests in the FBI laboratory. We were all unanimously -- we were united in our observations and conclusions that there was no bomb or missile damage evident on those aircraft parts.

GRASSLEY: The term four to six weeks brings you to what date on the calendar approximately? Just approximately.

TOBIN: My guess would be mid September, early to mid September.

_______________________________

Having parlayed his unprofessional knee-jerk conclusion at the outset, that zoom+boom=missile shootdown, into authorization from Louis Freeh, Janet Reno and the White House to seize control of the investigation from the NTSB along with a blank check, James Kallstrom kept his cop mentality neck bowed and barged ahead with more futile wild goose chase efforts to prove he was right.

FBI Assistant Director Schiliro: "It should also be pointed out that the main 92 foot reconstruction project of the plane's fuselage was initiated at the insistence and urging of the FBI to identify possible patterns of damage or directional forces in a three-dimensional perspective, despite the repeated objection and reluctance of many NTSB senior managers to take on such an investigative project."

"It was also at the urging of the FBI that the evidence collection effort continued after the cessation of diving operations on November 3, 1996 due to weather conditions. The FBI contracted for the services of four (4) scallop trawlers to literally ``rake'' the ocean floor for aircraft debris from November 1996 until the end of April 1997. Each trawler operated 24 hours a day, weather permitting, and was staffed by two FBI Special Agents who painstakingly separated sea life from manmade objects and ensured a proper chain of custody."

"Through such arduous and thorough efforts, the FBI and the NTSB and its parties were afforded an unprecedented opportunity to conduct further forensic and engineering analyses which assisted in the overall decision making process."

Translation: Kallstrom fell on his face in his efforts to prove that zoom+boom=missile shootdown.

Click here for the sources of all the above quotes.

_______________________________

James Kallstrom's clones, the tinfoil hats, have continued his efforts to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with more of his zoom+boom=missile shootdown.

Commander Donaldson: . . . . the loss of the aircraft was caused by an explosive event in the number two main tank. [Underlined emphasis added]

-----

Commander DONALDSON: I think a missile was fired, that we have dozens of people that agree with the flight time of the missile, where it came from and where it went. I think it steered for the center wing tank. I think it veered forward and entered the number two main. There is 45 square feet of front spar missing in front of that tank. [Underlined emphasis added]

As Portrayed In This Animated Graphic

But Donaldson made the same blunder James Kallstrom earlier did. He succumbed to his knee jerk reaction that zoom+boom=missile shootdown of Flight 800 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12.

The "boom" is aka the Massive Fireball explosion. It was informally calculated to have been approximately 2000 feet in diamater. It was by far the most dramatic fiery event in the sky and seen by virtually all of the witnesses - including those airborne such as witnesses Faret & Wendell who saw it explode below their own flight altitude of 8500 feet, flew over to the smoke cloud it left and thereby determined that its clearly defined top was at 7700 feet. Source

Their report also includes the following interesting addendum:

Feb 97: Addendum:
Time has passed, the mystery of the downing of Flight 800 still eludes us. (probably not all of us). Until all data is evaluated, we’ll have to wait for the official facts. From an idealistic view, there is no reason to think otherwise. (what a perfect world we live in). Since Ken & Sven made this report public, we have heard many opinions on our sighting. We saw what we saw and report it as such. We have nothing to gain or loose. It is apparent that some aviation experience is required.

There is one fact that bothers us, however. No mention is ever made of the fact that the explosion was at 7500 feet! We do not dispute the fact that something happened at 13,800 feet, but what happened after that. There is 5000 feet unaccounted for.

We would like to emphasize:
We approached the black-gray smoke cloud on the west side. We were at 7700 feet and were at the top edge of the cloud. The cloud center was at 7500 feet. There were 2 small bumps atop it. There was no smoke or smoke trails above it. It was still lit up a little by the sun, clear above.

We don’t know why this has never been discussed in any scenarios.

_______________________________

Compare their report on the altitude of the Massive Fireball explosion with the following and note the Massive Fireball explosion altitude estimates of the other airborne witnesses:

NTSB Exhibit 4-A Airborne Witness Matrix

You say:

"Now get this, the expert analyst Commander Donaldson found evidence of the FBI's search that was recommended based on the expert conclusion that the witness accounts support a missile strike. If the expert analysts and the FBI believed what Asmodeus believes they would never have recommended and conducted such a massive search of the ocean."

Expert witness report analysts don't succumb to knee-jerk reactions that zoom+zoom=missile shootdown.

Expert witness report analysts would determine the altitude of the boom.

ex·pert (kspûrt) n. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.

The proof is in the pudding.

http://www.100megspop3.com/bark/800MslWitMyth.html

46 posted on 12/29/2001 12:17:20 AM PST by Asmodeus
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