Early Christians Hid The Origins Of The Bethlehem Star

New Scientist ^ | 12-21-2001 | Marcus Chown

[woollyone]

Again, it is interesting to note that in post#105 I was specifically addressing fv, yet you just HAD to respond to a dialog that was not directed to you specifically.

I guess we can see that by your own actions, you are feeling convicted.

That's a good start...it leads to confession and repentence.

Keep praying about the truth and love thingy John.

[woollyone]

"...men like this...they never quote God"

Gee...it would appear that you aren't telling the truth here John...

I count at least 6 references that I've made to the Bible, either by direct quotes or with chapter/verse in the past posts to you, not to mention at least one Biblical reference in the private freepmail that I sent to you John.

Start telling the truth. You're fleshing-out John!

[mugwump62]

the one true word. Period, the BIBLE. Period.

[Elsie]

It seems to me, that someone with ESP, who knowingly comes onto a 'religious' thread, would be able to at least get a small clue that his/her statement would provoke controversy.

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It appears that this gift, power, curse or whatever you wish to call it, is not very reliable.

[Thinkin' Gal]

I have several search programs for various needs, but I primarily use God's Word for Windows. Download available here. Unless they changed the program, it won't cease to function after "x" days. Honor system. The CD is only $25.

But back to your inquiry. A search of those two words returns:

2 Samuel 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield [4043], and the horn of my salvation [3468], my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour [3467]; thou savest [3467]me from violence.

2 Samuel 22:36 Thou hast also given me the shield [4043] of thy salvation [3468]: and thy gentleness hath made me great.

Psalms 18:2 The LORD [3068] is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler [4043], and the horn of my salvation [3468], and my high tower.

Psalms 18:35 Thou hast also given me the shield [4043] of thy salvation [3468]: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.

04043 magen {maw-gane'} also (in pl.) fem. m@ginnah {meg-in-naw'}
from 01598; TWOT - 367c; n m
AV - shield 48, buckler 9, armed 2, defence 2, rulers 1,
scales + 0650 1; 63

1) shield, buckler

(Star of David lit. Magen David, shield of David)

***

03468 yesha` {yeh'-shah} or yesha` {yay'-shah}
from 03467; TWOT - 929a; n m
AV - salvation 32, safety 3, saving 1; 36

1) deliverance, salvation, rescue, safety, welfare
1a) safety, welfare, prosperity
1b) salvation
1c) victory

>>>

03467 yasha` {yaw-shah'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 929; v

AV - save 149, saviour 15, deliver 13, help 12, preserved 5,
salvation 3, avenging 2, at all 1, avenged 1, defend 1,
rescue 1, safe 1, victory 1; 205

1) to save, be saved, be delivered
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be liberated, be saved, be delivered
1a2) to be saved (in battle), be victorious
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to save, deliver
1b2) to save from moral troubles
1b3) to give victory to

>>>

2424 Iesous {ee-ay-sooce'}
of Hebrew origin 03091; TDNT - 3:284,360; n pr m
AV - Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975

Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"

03091 Y@howshuwa` {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} or Y@howshu`a {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah}
from 03068 and 03467;
AV - Joshua 218; 218

Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation"

[woollyone]

You had me confuzzed, because I had though you were referring to Mat. 2:2-9, in relation to the thread topic.

Thanks for the link. I currently use the Blue letter Bible, which is exclusively an online resource, as they have yet to make it available in a CD format. Last time I talked to them, they said that it was too large of a program to be made available in CD format. Thought that was rather odd.

Anyway, I really prefer hard copy/book resources and am looking for an exhaustive Strongs cross reference book...one which will list all the uses of each strong's number in both the OT and NT.

Take care TG.

[Thinkin' Gal]

Software is the way to go for checking combinations of Strong's #'s, or combination English and Strong's numbers. The Exhaustive Strong's book I have lists every word by indexing the English (KJV). If you are looking for a book which lists verse by Strong's number, see The Englishman's Greek Concordance of the New Testament and The Englishman's Hebrew Concordance of the Old Testament. For an excellent Hebrew organized-by-root study, get the two volume Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (aka TWOT, the reference number you will see listed in those Strong's OT entries at BLB).

[TxBec]

Yeah.. they celebrated diversity regularly by tossing Christians to the lions

[floriduh voter]

That poof was a playful reference to the wizard of oz which is fiction. Are you against fiction too? You also have no sense of humor. You are a very hateful person and I wish that you would be banned from Free Republic. Maybe I'll get my wish after the holidays.

[floriduh voter]

You said, it Elsie, re: precognition - that's why I don't do anything with it but,I think it's far worse for freepers to attack other freepers than anything I may be accused of. It is not a game and I didn't ask myself, wait, if you talk about the wise men, you may get in deep doo doo with those freepers without sin.

By the way, I was very ill last year and at my request, many freepers were praying for me to be well. I believe in prayer and have witnessed the power of prayer.

However, other things whatever they are, cannot be denied. I remember when I was an innocent child in grade school and we had a big family reunion. I always had a good appetite and my Aunt Opal looked at me and said "pick a number between one and a hundred." Well, I guessed the number and got to be first in line to eat. I'll never forget the look on my aunt's face.

There are many things about life that are beyond my understanding except for faith. Faith is my cornerstone giving me strength to take care of my mother and support my friends.I do not insult people who are different from me at free republic or in my daily life. I try to live "Love one another." What I am reading here instead is "insult one another." You have a Merry Christmas anyway.

[mdwakeup]

That's a heckuva long post just to say, "It's a miracle!"

[AnnaZ]

But it's the thought that counts.

 

;^)

 

All the best!

[asformeandformyhouse]

Didn't the Romans also sack the Jewish temple in AD 70?

I haven't seen this one answered so I thought I'd explain.

This was under a different Ceaser than when Jesus lived. Roman rule under Jesus' time was much more tolerant of other religions. As long as taxes were paid, the Romans didn't bother themselves with the religion of occupied lands.

[Cultural Jihad]

Misspellings and all, not meaning to embarass you, but you really should check your post before hitting the reply button.

Doh! We should all accept the advice we so freely hand out to others, eh?

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam for this nearly three year old topic (originally www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3c2343176050.htm? the URL has been converted on the fly to this one). This seems to be the earliest such FR topic, obviously pertains to ancient history, to astronomy, to archaeoastronomy, anthropology, and a raft of other specialties. Plus I've got some stuff to post in here.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[SunkenCiv]

Check the GGG homepage (linked below, or in my previous post) for other pertinent topics. Did not ping everyone for each of them. My apologies for the spurt of activity during the past half hour, that's not usual, because I'm lazy.

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PDF to HTML translation·Translation page·Wayback Machine·My Links·FreeMail Me
Gods, Graves, Glyphs topic·and group·Books, Magazines, Movies, Music

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[SunkenCiv]

The local paper once had an article on another supposed astronomical connection with the Star of the East found in the Book of Matthew. Deborah Haarsma, a professor at Calvin College, noted that Molnar's book of 1991 attributes the phenomenon to Jupiter. Here's an old link:

Coin May Link Star of Bethlehem to King of Planets
by Henry Fountain

The Star of Bethlehem has been called many things by many people: a comet, a conjunction of planets, a supernova, a miracle, a myth. With just one biblical account, in the book of Matthew, of the star and how it caused the wise men to come to Judea in search of the newborn Jesus, exactly what it was, if indeed it was anything at all, remains an open question.

Dr. Michael R. Molnar, an astronomer and physicist and former teacher at Rutgers University, proposes that the star was the planet Jupiter, seen in the constellation Aries the ram on April 17, 6 B.C. A Roman coin, which Dr. Molnar bought for $50 at a New York show for his collection, was minted in Syria around A.D. 6. It showed Aries looking back over his shoulder at a star. The Romans, he learned, annexed Judea in A.D. 6, and Aries first appeared on Roman coins in that year. That told him that Aries was a symbol for Judea, a fact confirmed by reading Ptolemy.

Dr. Jack Finegan, an emeritus professor at the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley, Calif., and author of "The Handbook of Biblical Chronology," a standard reference on the subject, now puts Herod's death more likely at 1 B.C. John Mosley, program director at the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles and an expert on the Star of Bethlehem, said that while it may never be possible to know what the star was, "when Herod died was an actual event and should be knowable." And if Herod died in 1 B.C., he added, "you can't stretch the birth of Jesus back to 6 or 7 B.C."

Others have made the connection with Aries. Some have pointed to a nova which seems more likely to me. Bright Jupiter is in the sky at least as often as not. The presence of Jupiter in Aries wouldn't have heralded the beginning of an astrological "age". There are no astronomical or astrological clues in Matthew, and this Aries connection is just a supposition. The Romans may have commemorated their conquest by minting coins showing Aries fleeing in vain. A portent of Jupiter in Aries would have looked pretty good in retrospect to the Romans.

There's no relationship between the three wise men or kings of the book of Matthew and any known annal or archive of any kind outside of the New Testament. Trying to come to a definite conclusion about what these three must have been seeing may be futile and perhaps foolhardy.

Searching for the Star of Bethlehem
by Ned Rozell
Alaska Science Forum
December 12, 1996

In 5 BC, Chinese sky watchers saw a "broom-star," a comet with a tail that seemed to sweep the sky. Colin Humphreys, a researcher at the University of Cambridge in England, thinks it was this celestial fireball, which probably looked much like Comet Hyakutake, that guided the three wise men on their journey. The Chinese observers saw the comet for 70 days, plenty of time for the wise men to reach Jerusalem from their homes in Persia, Humphreys claims. Matthew's description of the star of Bethlehem, "lo, the star, which they had seen in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was," could easily describe a moving comet... Henbest suggests Matthew could have made up the tale of the star to enliven the story. Or maybe the guiding star was a miracle, the result of divine intervention. The only sure bet is the origin of the star will remain a mystery for many Christmases to come.

[adam_az]

"According to Molnar, early Christians hated pagan beliefs and did not want to justify the Biblical story with astrological mumbo-jumbo."

Easter bunny, easter eggs, yule log, decorating a tree, wreaths, etc etc etc. All came later from the European pagan traditions.

Early Christians hated pagan idolatry... because they were not yet that far removed from the traditions of Judiasm.

[adam_az]

Really!! I mean goodness forbid that the Creator of the universe just put a star there to announce the birth of His Son into the world. Everyone knows that God has to fit into our little box of understanding else he isn't really God, now is he? < /sarcasm>

It doesn't discount any such thing. We live in a world ruled by physics - stars don't just pop up out of nowhere and go away.

[Paperdoll]

>Christmas star? That ain't the freakin' Christmas star. It's the light from the sewage treatment plant!<

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