Archaeologists Find Celts in Unlikely Spot: Central Turkey (Ellas Go Bragh!?)

The New York Times ^ | December 25, 2001 | JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

[RnMomof7]

Apparently no remnants of the Celtic language or culture in Central Turkey survived until modern times. Human sacrifice has a way of doing that to a population. So why are people so proud of their Celtic heritage when the Celts and their Druid priests were so murdurous? I wonder the same thing about Mexicans and Aztecs. The Aztec world collapsed under its own evil; the Spanish just helped them along. One could ssay the same thing about the Celts and the Romans.

"There is none righteous no not one".. we are sinners in need of a Savior.....just like every other man!

[Nogbad]

Did you know that Che Guevera was half Irish?

Well, I wouldn't hold it against them.
Every basket has some bad apples.

[ValerieUSA]

The Edomites also were the Philistines and lived on the shore of the Mediterranean and branched out from there, too, by sea.

[razorbak]

According to the Bible, all of mankind is descended from Noah's sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth. The Japhethites were the Europeans, the Hamites were the Africans, and the Mid East and Far East are the Shemites. Some put the Orientals in with the descendants of Ham. The prophecy given to Noah indicated that the Japhethites would rule the world. For the most part, through Europe and America that has been true. Of course not everyone believes the above.

[goody2shooz]

Far away, in the western desert edge of China, have been found mummies buried in the sands. These people had light hair or auburn hair and caucasian features.

They also practised human sacrifices. One red haired mummy, wearing a tall pointed witch's hat, was found buried with two others; a woman who had been executed before burial and an eighteen month old baby boy who had been buried alive. Very gruesome and horrorific. (From the National Geographic a few years back).

It was Saint Patrick (Padric was actually a Romanized Briton) who converted the Irish to Christianity and turned them away from the pagan means of worshiping that emphasized death and incorporated human sacrifices.

(SeeHow The Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill.)

Gee! Those Celts really got around!

[PoisedWoman]

Yes, European Celts — the Gauls of Roman times and the forerunners of Bretons, Welsh, Irish and highland Scots — once migrated as far east as what is now central Turkey and settled in and around post-Alexander Gordion, beginning in the early third century B.C.

Hey, cousin "Fid," looky here.

Why does this report not surprise me? I'll tell you why. Though my ancestors are Irish, English, and Welsh, the place in the world that I felt most mysteriously at home and absolutely knew what lay beyond each turn in a never-before-traveled road was Turkey.

That settles it! I'm going back! My DNA wants to go home.

[abclily]

Hate to disappoint you, but there is a (quite substantial) theory that the Celts were one of the lost tribes of Israel. The Turkish finds are probably evidence of their migration north, rather than the other way around.

[JoeSchem]

Please God, don't let my ancestoral blood be from the Mideast!

Coming from the Middle East doesn't make you crazy. Staying there does!

[aristeides]

It has of course long been well-known that this part of Anatolia had a Celtic population. Both the Roman province in the area -- and the preceding local kingdom -- were called "Galatia." The famous statue of a dying Gaul is in fact of a Galatian.

Interesting that the Romans apparently allowed these human sacrifices to continue in Galatia after they subjected it to Roman rule in 25 B.C. The suppression of such sacrifices in Gaul (and, I believe, also in Britain) was an important part of the propaganda justifying the establishment of Roman rule there.

Simon James, The World of the Celts, p. 41, says about religion in Galatia: "The best recorded instance of Galatian human sacrifice occurred in 165 B.C., when prisoners not about to be ransomed were offered to the gods." He says the Galatians were noted for this practice, and that neighboring peoples felt fear of them as a result, so that they would even commit suicide rather than fall into their hands. So some ancient writer -- I do not know which --must mention this practice in Galatia.

There is a discussion of human sacrifice in Gaul in Strabo IV iv 5.

As an Irish-American who praised earlier today on another forum the Spanish conquest of Mexico for its suppression of Aztec human sacrifice, let me say here that I applaud the suppression of this barbaric practice in Celtic lands, and thoroughly deplore the idiots who are now trying to resurrect Celtic paganism.

[Restorer]

The Edomites also were the Philistines and lived on the shore of the Mediterranean and branched out from there, too, by sea.

You've got a rather large number of things mixed up. The Philistines were (or at least were ruled by) a completely non-Semitic group, probably related to the Myceneans run out of Greece by the Dorians and other invading Greek tribes.

There is also little or no evidence that the Philistines were a seafaring people, at least once they reached Palestine. You may be confusing them with the Phoenicians, who were another Semitic people, essentially northern Canaanites, and who spoke a Semitic language almost identical to Hebrew.

Some of the other ethic groups in the area included Ammonites, Moabites, Hittites, Amorites, etc. There were a lot of different groups around.

Extra points if you can figure out the only one still extant!

[Fiddlstix]

Thanks for the Ping J
Btw, got your email too
Thanks
Merry Christmas

[Restorer]

prophecy given to Noah indicated that the Japhethites would rule the world. ""Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be his slave."

It sounds more to me like the primary blessing was given to Shem, with Japheth almost an afterthought.

Note also that Ham is not mentioned, only his son Canaan.

[Fiddlstix]

*Ping*
Thought you might like to look at this J

[RnMomof7]

We have that book :>)...

[Elsie]

. A worldwide Christian brotherhood that reunites the separated family of mankind is part of God's plan for this world.

---

Yup: that's true!

---

Ephesians 2
 11.  Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)--
 12.  remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
 13.  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
 14.  For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
 15.  by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
 16.  and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 
 17.  He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
 18.  For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

[d4now]

Thanks for posting. Bump.

[dr_who]

Neat.

[ValerieUSA]

Psalms 60:8
"Moab is My washbowl;
Over Edom I shall throw My shoe;
Shout loud, O Philistia, because of Me!"

They were all the same peoples with different chiefs.

[DeaconBenjamin]

Bernardo O'Higgins was the bastard son of an Irish peddlar. This Irish peddlar became governor of Chile and later Viceroy of Peru. Source: Latin America: A General History, by John Edwin Fagg.

[L`enn]

Hate to break the news to you but if you are Irish and have dark features, odds are that it is from the plundering of Ireland by the Spanish Armada, and we all know who rules Spain for quite awhile just before the rise of the Spanish Empire.