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To: old-ager
But you don't obey His word. You sin all the time. Jesus died for your lack of obedience. You are disobedient. If you don't realize this, you are a Pharisee. You are forgiven all your disobedience through Christ's life, death and resurrection.

True enough, I have no hope in heaven if it weren't for the grace of God. However, your response might lead some to think that everyone will go to heaven and that we are free to continue in our sin. I suspect this is not the point you were trying to make. Can you clarify? Please.

53 posted on 12/30/2001 9:31:45 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: PFKEY
True enough, I have no hope in heaven if it weren't for the grace of God. However, your response might lead some to think that everyone will go to heaven and that we are free to continue in our sin. I suspect this is not the point you were trying to make. Can you clarify? Please.

Right, it's not what I said. And right, some might make incorrect conclusions. But nobody is going to honestly conclude that Christ's suffering and dying because of their own sins makes further sinning a good thing, are they? And Scripture itself explicitly says it's completely wrong to conclude that we should sin more just so grace can abound. But my point here is that the "meat" is never going to be primarily obedience, but rather, forgiveness. I'll say it again: if the "meat" is obedience, we are in trouble.

55 posted on 12/30/2001 9:42:07 PM PST by old-ager
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To: PFKEY
Once we are saved, we are to repent - that is, turn away from those things that cause us to sin. However, we still are imperfect humans and will do things that aren't Christlike. We still will have consequences to face for our sinning. The Holy Spirit causes us to feel guilt (conviction). The Christian who is sincere will continue to pray for forgiveness and ask God's help in repenting. A sincere Christian will do alot of soul-searching and self-examination. Just because Christians don't advertise and explain their shortcomings daily to the world doesn't mean they are hypocrits. Like someone else on this thread said, if we were perfect, we wouldn't need a savior. A Christian's duty when he sins and hurts another is to make amends with his brother and to ask God for forgiveness and help. We are also to forgive one another as God has forgiven us.

However, forgiveness is a whole other thread - a very misunderstood concept. A topic for a new day when we are all refreshed.

63 posted on 12/30/2001 9:54:51 PM PST by 3catsanadog
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