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TOLKEIN AND THE LORD OF THE RINGS (David Cloud can't even spell TOLKIEN right when he attacks him!)
Way Of Life Literature ^ | February 5, 2002 | David Cloud

Posted on 02/05/2002 10:57:20 AM PST by Darth Sidious

TOLKEIN AND THE LORD OF THE RINGS

February 5, 2002 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org) -

The Lord of the Rings movie has made more than $260 million since its release on December 19; and in spite of its PG-13 rating and its occultic imagery, it and its literary counterpart are being praised by some professing Christians. The Lord of the Rings is the first in a proposed fantasy trilogy based on the books by J.R. Tolkein. The movie edition of the trilogy was filmed at a cost of $300 million, but as we have seen, that amount was almost fully recovered a mere two months after the release of the first episode; and the second and third parts of the trilogy are yet to appear. The television rights to the trilogy were recently purchased by WB network for $160 million.

Christianity Today ran a positive review of the books and the movie entitled "Lord of the Megaplex." Focus on the Family praised Tolkein's fantasies and promotes the book "Finding God in the Lord of the Rings" by Kurt Bruner and Jim Ware (Tyndale House). The glowing advertisement at the Focus on the Family web site calls fantasy a "vehicle for truth" and says: "In Finding God in the Lord of the Rings, Kurt Bruner and Jim Ware examine the 'story behind' the stories the inspirational themes of hope, redemption and faith that Tolkien wove into his classic tales." World magazine's review is titled "Powerful Rings" and claims that the "movie version of Tolkien's book speaks to today's culture." There is no warning in these reviews about Tolkein's occultic imagery.

HARMLESS FANTASY, WHOLESOME ALLEGORY?

Is the Lord of the Rings harmless fantasy or perhaps even a wholesome Christian allegory? We think not. I read The Hobbit and the three volumes of The Lord of the Ring in 1971 when I was in Vietnam with the U.S. Army. I was not saved at the time, and, in fact, I was very antagonistic to the Christian faith; and had the books contained even a hint of Bible truth, I can assure you that I would not have read them at that particular point in my life. Though I have forgotten many of the details of the books, I can recall very vividly that they are filled with occultic imagery. The books were published in inexpensive paperback editions in the late 1960s, and they became very popular with that generation of drug headed hippies.

THE AUTHOR OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS

The author of the Lord of the Rings, John Ronald Reuel Tolkein, was born in South Africa in 1892, but his family moved to Britain when he was about 3 years old. When Tolkein was eight years old, his mother converted to Roman Catholicism, and he remained a Catholic throughout his life. In his last interview, two years before his death, he unhesitatingly testified, "I'm a devout Roman Catholic." J.R. Tolkein married his childhood sweetheart, Edith, and they had four children. He wrote them letters each year as if from Santa Claus, and a selection of these was published in 1976 as "The Father Christmas Letters." One of Tolkein's sons became a Catholic priest. Tolkein was an advisor for the translation of the Roman Catholic Jerusalem Bible.

As a professor of literature at Oxford University, Tolkein specialized in Old and Middle English and loved ancient pagan mythology. His first fantasy novel, The Hobbit, appeared in 1937, and The Lord of the Rings, in 1954-55. Several others were published later, some posthumously.

One of Tolkein's drinking buddies was the famous C.S. Lewis. They and some other Oxford associates formed a group called the "Inklings" and met regularly at an Oxford pub to drink beer and regale about literary and other matters. Tolkein, in fact, is credited with influencing Lewis to become a Christian of sorts. Like Tolkein, though, Lewis did not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God and he picked and chose what he would believe about the New Testament apostolic faith, rejecting such things as the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ. And like Tolkein, C.S. Lewis loved at least some things about Catholicism. He believed in purgatory, confessed his sins to a priest, and had the last rites performed by a Catholic priest (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, pp. 198, 301)

J.R. Tolkein died in 1973 at age 81, two years after his wife, and they are buried in the Catholic section of the Wolvercote cemetery in the suburbs of Oxford.

THE STORY OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS

The setting for Tolkein's The Lord of the Rings is in "Middle Earth" and the hero is a little creature (a hobbit) named Frodo Baggins who accidentally becomes possessor of a magical ring that is the lost and greatly desired treasure of the "Dark Lord Sauron." The story line revolves around Frodo's action-filled journey to take the ring to the Cracks of Doom where it can be destroyed. The individual titles of the trilogy are "The Fellowship of the Ring," "The Two Towers," and "The Return of the Ring."

OCCULTISM

Though the aforementioned reviewers would have us believe that Tolkein's books contain simple allegories of good vs. evil, Tolkein portrays wizards and witches and wizardry as both good and evil. There is white magic and black magic in Tolkein's fantasies. For example, a wizard named Gandalf is portrayed as a good person who convinces Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit to take a journey to recover stolen treasure. The books depict the calling up of the dead to assist the living, which is plainly condemned in the Scriptures. Though not as overtly and sympathetically occultic as the Harry Potter series, Tolkein's fantasies are unscriptural and present a very dangerous message.

TOLKEIN SAID THE BOOKS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN ALLEGORIES

In his last interview in 1971, Tolkein plainly stated that he did not intend The Lord of the Rings as a Christian allegory and that Christ is not depicted in his fantasy novels. When asked about the efforts of the trilogy's hero, Frodo, to struggle on and destroy the ring, Tolkein said, "But that seems I suppose more like an allegory of the human race. I've always been impressed that we're here surviving because of the indomitable courage of quite small people against impossible odds: jungles, volcanoes, wild beasts... they struggle on, almost blindly in a way" (Interview by Dennis Gerrolt; it was first broadcast in January 1971 on BBC Radio 4 program "Now Read On…"). That doesn't sound like the gospel to me. When Gerrolt asked Tolkein, "Is the book to be considered as an allegory?" the author replied, "No. I dislike allegory whenever I smell it."

Thus, the author of The Lord of the Rings denied the very thing that some Christians today are claiming, that these fantasies are an allegory of Christ's victory over the devil.

TOLKEIN SPAWNED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS

Tolkein's books single-handedly created the vast and spiritually dangerous fantasy role-playing games that are so influential today. Dungeons and Dragons, which appeared in the early 1970s, was based on Tolkein's fantasy novels. One fantasy-game web site makes this interesting observation: "The whole fantasy adventure genre of books came into play when J.R. Tolkein wrote his The Lord of the Rings books. From his vivid imagination and creative thinking he created the fantasy adventure genre. Tolkein probably got his ideas from ancient religions. Peoples of different civilizations were writing epic's way before Tolkein was even born. They wrote epics about people with superior strength, about gods that punished people and, travels to the underworld. Tolkein is accredited to being the man who started it all but if traced back even further you'll see that he wasn't the one that created it, just the one that pushed it forth."

This secular writer better understands what Tolkein's books are about than the aforementioned Christian publications. Tolkein certainly did get his ideas from pagan religions, and the message promoted in his fantasy books is strictly pagan.

ROCK AND ROLLERS LOVE TOLKEIN

Tolkein has influenced many rock and rollers. The song "Misty Mountain Hop" by the demonic hard rock group, Led Zeppelin, was inspired by Tolkein's writings. Marc Bolan, of the rock group Tyannasaurus Rex, created a musical and visual style influenced by Tolkein. The heavy metal rock group Iluvatar named themselves after a fictional god from Tolkein's novel The Silmarillion. Others could be mentioned.

The world knows its own; and when the demonic world of fantasy role-playing and the morally filthy world of rock and roll love something, you can be sure it is not godly and it is not the truth.

[Distributed by Way of Life Literature's Fundamental Baptist Information Service. These articles cannot be stored on BBS or Internet sites or sold or placed by themselves or with other material in any electronic format for sale, but may be distributed for free by e-mail or by print. They must be left intact and nothing removed or changed, including these informational headers. The Fundamental Baptist Information Service is a listing for Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing Christians. Our goal in this particular aspect of our ministry is not devotional but is TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO ASSIST PREACHERS IN THE PROTECTION OF THE CHURCHES IN THIS APOSTATE HOUR. This material is sent only to those who personally subscribe to the list. If somehow you have subscribed unintentionally, following are the instructions for removal. To Subscribe to the Fundamental Baptist Information Service, send an email to lists@wayoflife.org and put "subscribe FBIS" in the subject field. To Unsubscribe, send an email to lists@wayoflife.org and put "unsubscribe FBIS" in the subject field. To change addresses, simply unsubscribe the old one, then re-subscribe the new one. We take up a quarterly offering to fund this ministry, and those who use the materials are expected to participate (Galatians 6:6). Some of these articles are from O Timothy magazine, which is in its 19th year of publication. Way of Life publishes many helpful books. The catalog is located at the web site: http://www.wayoflife.org. Way of Life Literature, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061. 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org (e-mail)]


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: davidcloud; tolkien
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Got this in my e-mail today. Apart from formatting for HTML and some boldfacing, I did nothing else to this article. It appears exactly as I received it.

David Cloud has sunk to an entirely new low. And he was already pretty darn low.

1 posted on 02/05/2002 10:57:20 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: BibChr; 2Jedismom; RosieCotton; Penny1
Hey guys... looks like a thread that needs our help!

C'mon in, the water's great!

2 posted on 02/05/2002 11:00:23 AM PST by JenB
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To: Darth Sidious
C.S. Lewis loved at least some things about Catholicism...

But he died a devout Anglican (Episcopalian)!!

3 posted on 02/05/2002 11:01:40 AM PST by meandog
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To: Darth Sidious
Heaven forbid. and those satanic messages in Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast (with implied carnal beastiality), and the idol worship implied in Pinichio, the whorish behavior of Snow White (living with 7 male unmarried dwarves), the S&M implications of Sleeping Beauty, and the unforgiveable sins of elevating animals to human status in 101 Dalmations. (/sarcasm)

David, see what happens when you stop taking your Zoloft?

4 posted on 02/05/2002 11:02:18 AM PST by Hodar
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To: Darth Sidious
fantasy trilogy based on the books by J.R. Tolkein.

Maybe he really thinks Tolkien is Jewish?

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! What a maroon.

FMCDH

5 posted on 02/05/2002 11:03:03 AM PST by nothingnew
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To: Darth Sidious
Got this in my e-mail today.

You shouldn't give your e-mail address to mentally unstable people.

6 posted on 02/05/2002 11:03:48 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Darth Sidious
The writer of this article obviously has a bone to pick with Catholics. At least half of the article is spent pointing out Tolkien's various Catholic connections.

What is it with fundamentalist Protestants hating Catholics so much? Aren't they both of the Christian faith? The wars of the Reformation are centuries behind us, and this guy acts like they are still going on.

Notforprophet

7 posted on 02/05/2002 11:06:15 AM PST by Notforprophet
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To: Darth Sidious
Though I have forgotten many of the details of the books, I can recall very vividly that they are filled with occultic imagery.

Translation: Although I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm going to tell you what I think anyway.

I never cease to be amazed at how I can be embarrassed by my "fellow" Christians...

8 posted on 02/05/2002 11:06:47 AM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Darth Sidious
This guy needs to grow up. There is nothing wrong with a little fantasy in life.
9 posted on 02/05/2002 11:06:49 AM PST by Michael2001
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To: Darth Sidious
Had to ping some of my Tolkien-friends. Let's say it's a very good thing you make it obvious that you disagree with this moron.

First off, D&D is not evil or Satanic. I don't play RPGs but there's nothing evil about them, science fiction, or fantasy novels.

Second, Tolkien said LotR was not allegory, true, but he did say it was applicable. (This is taken from the Introduction.)

Third, good is Good, bad is Evil, and never the twain shall meet... Tolkien shows clearly what evil does, and why it must be opposed. There's plenty of other stuff but I think I'll leave some for the other Tolkiendil (a possible name for 'lovers of Tolkien'?) who are here!

10 posted on 02/05/2002 11:09:17 AM PST by JenB
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To: Darth Sidious
Tolkein has influenced many rock and rollers. The song "Misty Mountain Hop" by the demonic hard rock group, Led Zeppelin, was inspired by Tolkein's writings. Marc Bolan, of the rock group Tyannasaurus Rex, created a musical and visual style influenced by Tolkein. The heavy metal rock group Iluvatar named themselves after a fictional god from Tolkein's novel The Silmarillion. Others could be mentioned.

The world knows its own; and when the demonic world of fantasy role-playing and the morally filthy world of rock and roll love something, you can be sure it is not godly and it is not the truth.

No, seriously tell us how you feel.

This reminds me when I went to a maranatha meeting in college, and they tried to convince me that that a rock music was the debbil!

This guy has probably never read the Lord of the Rings. I bet he would be a laugh riot at a cocktail party.

11 posted on 02/05/2002 11:09:26 AM PST by ThreeYearLurker
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To: Darth Sidious
The writer says that Tolkien was a Catholic...like its a BAD thing. OH MY GOODNESS HE WAS A C A T H O L I C ! !

And Tolkien begat LOTR which begat Led Zepplin which begat D&D which begat pop rocks which begat cocaine which begat....

12 posted on 02/05/2002 11:09:59 AM PST by Portnoy
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To: steve-b
You shouldn't give your e-mail address to mentally unstable people

I'm subscribed to his e-mail list with another address. There's all kinds of nutty nuggets that come in from him.

He's also against people enjoying themselves while watching the Super Bowl, anything having to do with the Beatles, and anyone who dares suggests that any version of the Bible other than KJV is a real Bible also.

13 posted on 02/05/2002 11:10:31 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
Is the Lord of the Rings harmless fantasy or perhaps even a wholesome Christian allegory? We think not. I read The Hobbit and the three volumes of The Lord of the Ring in 1971 when I was in Vietnam with the U.S. Army. I was not saved at the time, and, in fact, I was very antagonistic to the Christian faith

Well, there's your problem, Mr. Cloud. You do a critique of a movie based on the books you read 31 years ago, when you weren't a believer. Your impression of the Tolkien books are based on your own particular grid of preconception from 31 years ago, in your pre-Christian life, and it came out negative. I watched Christopher Hitchens on CSPAN this past weekend, attempting to talk about religion, and from his perspective, the crucifixion of Christ is a horrific doctrine: "What God would supposedly save the world through human sacrifice?" That's all he, through his twisted perspective, can see within the death of Christ: senseless human sacrifice.

Mr. Cloud, do yourself a favor and read the books again. The fact that the movie and books were given glowing endorsements by Christianity Today, Focus on the Family, Word magazine, not to mention numerous other Christian writers and publications, should have tipped you off that something was wrong with your narrow perspective.

14 posted on 02/05/2002 11:12:29 AM PST by My2Cents
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To: Darth Sidious
Heavens to mergatroid! The books were written by a...(gasp)...Catholic!
15 posted on 02/05/2002 11:12:56 AM PST by kidd
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To: Darth Sidious
We need to add a new special interest group, with this guy as the poster child. Call them "imagination impaired."
16 posted on 02/05/2002 11:13:06 AM PST by Snake65
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To: Darth Sidious
had the books contained even a hint of Bible truth, I can assure you that I would not have read them at that particular point in my life.

Okay, you BACs: Explain to me, please, what is "Bible truth" compared with just plain, ordinary everyday "truth."

17 posted on 02/05/2002 11:14:07 AM PST by Illbay
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To: Darth Sidious
Wow. I'm speechless. I'm trying to think of a reply, but for once, I'm at a loss for words.

This isn't a parody of some sort by any chance, is it?

18 posted on 02/05/2002 11:15:56 AM PST by RosieCotton
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To: Notforprophet
Just for the record, I am what many would consider a "fundamentalist Christian" -- I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. But I have great respect for many Catholics. In fact, some of the most influential books on my life were written by Catholics: St. John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence, Francois Fenelon, Thomas Merton....

On second thought, maybe I'm not that much of a "fundamentalist Christian..."

19 posted on 02/05/2002 11:17:33 AM PST by My2Cents
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To: JenB
D&D is not evil

Well, Gary Gygax's modules were. Oh, wait, maybe I'm just confusing sadistic with evil. ;-)

20 posted on 02/05/2002 11:20:28 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: My2Cents
I meant no disrespect to fundamentalists, nor to Catholics. Can't we all just get along?
21 posted on 02/05/2002 11:22:07 AM PST by Notforprophet
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To: Darth Sidious
"met regularly... to drink beer..."

Boy, sounds ominous. They must have been stoned on beer when they dreamnt up their dark occult plans to enslave humanity to the wild global conspiracy of demon-possessed hobbits.

I have some alarming news for this guy.Most adult males in the British Isles drink beer and ales regularly as part of their diet. Among these, some heard - horrors! - fairytales when they were children. But...uh...for the record, I'm not aware that either Tolkien or C.S. Lewis ever offered any detailed comments on the type of Biblical interpretation theory the author mentions, so the claim about denying the "infallible word" of God is false. Many would consider his own warped approach to Christianity to be a little...cloudy. So, hey, if you ever see any old guys around drinking beer and you think they may be plotting the next stage of collective D&D demon-possession of children, call this guy right away.

22 posted on 02/05/2002 11:22:30 AM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: RogueIsland
D1 Descent into the Depths of the Earth by Gary Gygax
D1-2 Descent into the Depths of the Earth by Gary Gygax
D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa by Gary Gygax
D3 Vault of the Drow by Gary Gygax

We had a rockin' good time with those. We didn't play Led Zepplin music while gaming (I think it was Carl Orff, acutally), so we weren't sufficiently daemonized.

23 posted on 02/05/2002 11:26:18 AM PST by Snake65
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To: Darth Sidious
I just noticed the guy is from Port Huron. THAT explains EVERYTHING.......

Signed, a former Port Huron High Big Red.

24 posted on 02/05/2002 11:27:22 AM PST by Portnoy
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To: RosieCotton
This isn't a parody of some sort by any chance, is it?

Would that it were! Unfortunately you are reading the rantings of a seriously disturbed individual, said individual being taken seriously by a woefully large number of other people who think Cloud is a legitimate "preacher of God's word."

There are two kinds of people who make up institutionalized Christianity at large: those who like being under power, and those who like having power over others. Cloud is the kind who loves his power. For those who take him seriously, the "spiritual sheeple", I have very little pity for them.

25 posted on 02/05/2002 11:28:45 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Notforprophet
What is it with fundamentalist Protestants hating Catholics so much?

You aren't really asking that, to get an answer — are you?

Dan

26 posted on 02/05/2002 11:28:48 AM PST by BibChr
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To: Darth Sidious
He's also against people enjoying themselves while watching the Super Bowl

So, he believes that the game should be an absurdly mismatched blowout 100% of the time instead of only 75%?

27 posted on 02/05/2002 11:28:54 AM PST by steve-b
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To: *Tolkien; ecurbh
ping
28 posted on 02/05/2002 11:31:25 AM PST by John Farson
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To: Darth Sidious
This so-called writer has quite a way with words! He believes that he has managed to reduce the brilliant Oxford dons to banal fluff. Regarding his "point" about LOTR and Tolkien "spawning" dangerous groups, any book, including the Bible, can and has been used as the basis for all sorts of dangerous and lame-brained groups, cults, etc. Cloud probably thinks it is dangerous to read the Iliad and the Odyssey. Obviously he is a moron. Although not an allegory per se,the good guys in LOTR are inherently "Christian" in their morality, and the bad guys follow Lucifer's prideful manifesto.
29 posted on 02/05/2002 11:32:09 AM PST by Mimsy
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To: Robert_Paulson2
Remember this guy? He's back: big as life and TWICE as ugly.
30 posted on 02/05/2002 11:32:51 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: lowbridge; Lazamataz; JohnHuang2; Registered
One PING to get them all...
31 posted on 02/05/2002 11:34:10 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Mercuria; AnnaZ; Jeremiah Jr; Sir Gawain
One PING to find them...
32 posted on 02/05/2002 11:34:54 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
On second thought, Mr. Cloudy may be having BZ flashbacks from Vietnam. Loss of a sense of reality is one of the classic signs of quinuclidinyl benzilate intoxication.
33 posted on 02/05/2002 11:34:55 AM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: GeronL; incindiary; Rebelbase
One PING to bring them all...
34 posted on 02/05/2002 11:35:43 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
Is this guy any relation to a Thomas Cloud?
35 posted on 02/05/2002 11:35:53 AM PST by L,TOWM
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To: MouthOfSouth; Sabertooth; diotima
...and in the darkness call them!
36 posted on 02/05/2002 11:36:36 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
This guy's writing is on the level of a C- high school freshman English paper.
37 posted on 02/05/2002 11:38:11 AM PST by LouD
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To: Darth Sidious
I have forgotten many of the details...

Sorta says it all. Mr. Cloud sir, you are in a fog, an incredibly thick one at that.

I actually feel bad about responding to this nitwit.

prisoner6

38 posted on 02/05/2002 11:38:40 AM PST by prisoner6
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To: Darth Sidious
...and in the darkness call them!

In the land of Fresno,
where the freepers lie.

LOL!

(Uh, wasn't that four pings?)

39 posted on 02/05/2002 11:41:06 AM PST by malakhi
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To: RogueIsland
"Oh, wait, maybe I'm just confusing sadistic with evil."

Or confusing "terribly written whilst drunk as a sailor" with "evil"

Honestly, Gary .. oh man. I just can't effectively and nicely express my opinion of his later "modules". Comparing some of his early stuff ("Against the Giants") with some of his later stuff is like comparing Styx's early hits with "Mr. Roboto".

40 posted on 02/05/2002 11:43:10 AM PST by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: Notforprophet
The writer of this article obviously has a bone to pick with Catholics.

Saying that David Cloud "has a bone to pick with Catholics" is like saying that Hitler "had some issues" with Jews. Cloud considers people like Jack Chick and Ian Paisley to be heroes. That tells you something about David Cloud.

Oh, and did I mention that he considers Billy Graham to be practically as evil as the Pope? That tells you something, too.

41 posted on 02/05/2002 11:43:42 AM PST by Campion
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To: Darth Sidious
Unbelievable. Not only did I play D&D when I was 15, I did it while listening to Led Zep AND being intoxicated on LSD. I became born again 15 years later.

For a follower of Christ, he sure gives a lot of credit to the adversary.

42 posted on 02/05/2002 11:44:33 AM PST by L,TOWM
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To: Snake65
We need to add a new special interest group, with this guy as the poster child. Call them "imagination impaired."

Here's his picture:


43 posted on 02/05/2002 11:45:05 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
That is incredibly clever! I am SO jealous!

One ping to rule them all.
One ping to find them.
One ping to bring them all,
and in the darkness bind them.

In the land of democRATS,
where the leaders lie.

Apologies, I'm not feeling very witty today.

prisoner6

44 posted on 02/05/2002 11:45:55 AM PST by prisoner6
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To: JenB
Sigh. This just makes me said. There may well be areas in which I agree with the guy, but this is just lame. He needed to heed the admonition not to think of oneself more highly than one ought (Romans 12:3). He's right to be concerned about the occult. But here he's chosen a literary work about which he knows next to nothing, embarrassed himself by repeatedly referring to it as an allegory (which Tolkien despised), and then doing the old guilt-by-association bit.

It's like saying

I can't even finish it. It's just lame.

Embarrassing.

Dan
Biblical Christianity message board

45 posted on 02/05/2002 11:46:15 AM PST by BibChr
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To: Darth Sidious
Wow. This guy really give fundamentalists Baptists like me a bad name. God forbid he should ever see my Douglas Adams collection or even my NIV or (Gasp!) Greek NT.
46 posted on 02/05/2002 11:46:25 AM PST by jae471
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To: RogueIsland
Crap. You too? Gygax should have been thrown to the orcs for some of the traps he threw in...

I lost SO many characters...

47 posted on 02/05/2002 11:46:58 AM PST by Mr. Thorne
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To: Darth Sidious
This writer obviously doesn't understand Tolkien, nor does he understand LOTR. There is nothing occultic in LOTR, it is fantasy. GOOD fantasy ... like LOTR and the Chronicles of Narnia ... have a moral order that is based on the Christian moral order, and BAD fantasy ... like Harry Potter ... has a reversed moral order (such as the ends justifies the means, which is a theme throughout the Potter series).

Someone wrote about the moral order of fantasy and I can't find the article! It was really good. Anyway, LOTR was a fantastic movie and I want to see it again. It did justice to the book, which is rare!

48 posted on 02/05/2002 11:47:04 AM PST by Gophack
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To: Darth Sidious
ROCK AND ROLLERS LOVE TOLKEIN

Oh, no! The horror! I also heard today that rock and rollers love food. I love food. What does that mean for me?

I am just sick about all of this.

No, wait! No I'm not.

Nevermind.

Shalom.

49 posted on 02/05/2002 11:47:23 AM PST by ArGee
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To: angelo
(Uh, wasn't that four pings?)

There is only the One Ping. You only see four because so many lusts after it, my precious, yesssssssss....

50 posted on 02/05/2002 11:47:36 AM PST by Darth Sidious
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