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That clucking sound you hear is the chickens coming home to roost...
1 posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:08 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Claud
You need to see this if you haven't already...
2 posted on 04/11/2002 7:16:50 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
Apparently even gays can be bigots. It is the dark side of all of our natures, and must be resisted by folks of conscience.
3 posted on 04/11/2002 7:18:23 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Patent; father_elijah; notwithstanding; Dr. Brian Kopp; wideawake; slyfox; Askel5; Romulus...
Read about this in The Wanderer today. I'm sure you all are aware of the book, but did you know about the web site?
4 posted on 04/11/2002 7:20:14 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
Now we know what the liberals mean by the fruits of Vatican II!
5 posted on 04/11/2002 7:24:55 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: Antoninus
The current craze of finding a conservative haven is not easy; in fact I have been in two "conservative" orders recommended by EWTN, and they both have all the trimmings of insanity and untraditional understandings of the Church.

This guy sounds very immature, to me, if even Mother Angelica's recommendations are too "liberal" for him.

I've always thought the Church would be better off if it didn't ordain anybody under 30.

Jesus didn't begin his public ministry until he was 30. Maybe that's the model we ought to follow.

6 posted on 04/11/2002 7:29:56 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Antoninus
Here's another beauty from the feedback page. Seminary really did wonders for this poor kid. Text in brackets is mine.

Did seminary make me lose my faith?
Submitted by Joe C., 28 March 2002, 6:07 p.m.

I haven't read the book yet, except for the excerpts. I just have some thoughts about the premise. I am a former heterosexual seminarian. [One wonders what this ambiguous statement means...] I first contacted the vocation recruiter in July, 1989. I entered formation in January, 1990. I was in formation until September, 1995. I hung in there six years trying to keep my mouth shut in that environment.

I was in a religious order that was supposed to be vowed to poverty. Initially, it was the upper middle-class lifestyle that bothered me most about my experience. Within a couple years, I slowly became aware that I was surrounded by gays. Eventually, in a formation house of 39 residents, 22 had "come out" to me, and I was pretty certain that at least 4 more were gay. There were some older men who seemed to be good priests by traditional standards. But they were in their seventies, and I was in my twenties.

At the theological union I attended (Washington Theological Union), men flirted with each other daily, and prayed that Pope John Paul II would have a happy death, "...and soon," they would add with a smirk. In the classroom, I was listening to professors, some of whom I still don't know what they believed.

I entered seminary fairly conservative. Like many Catholics prior to 1994, I was open to women's ordination, but willing to support the Pope. I had hoped that I would learn the theology for his side in the seminary. I was even open to the possibility of married priests, but thought that I might have a genuine calling to celibacy regardless of whether priests married or not. I was healthy according to the psych tests. I liked sports, voted moderately Republican or pro-life conservative Democrat, and had a taste for apologetic theology.

By the end of formation, I was on the verge of atheism, and had to drag myself to Mass each week until I recovered some sort of faith. I was furious with the Church. My faith has become very different -- even to this day.

By the day I left, I had become convinced that celibacy for the clergy was a big lie forced on the Church by repressed homosexuals who were finally coming out of the closet in the 20th century. I know there were a few straight men in there, but I felt pity for them. I even began wondering whether Jesus, in his humanity, was gay. As true God and true man, he had to have a human sexual orientation didn't he? I still wonder this.

I am now a thouroughly liberal-progressive Catholic angry at Pope John Paul II over Ordinatio Sacerdotalis....[Clearly, this poor kid had his spirit broken. There's a big millstone waiting in Heaven for someone...]
9 posted on 04/11/2002 7:45:15 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
The next thing you know, these same b*st*rds will be claiming that Jesus was gay. After all He spent all His adult life with a bunch of men. There were no female apostles. And most importantly, Jesus never married.
17 posted on 04/11/2002 8:15:30 PM PDT by reg45
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To: Antoninus
In this explosive new book, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose reveals how deliberate discrimination against traditional, or "orthodox," men has been effected by well placed ideologues who want to change the Catholic Church in America to suit their personal tastes and politics

HMMMM sounds like a N.A.M.B.L.A. plot ?

20 posted on 04/11/2002 8:23:35 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: Antoninus
Thanks for posting this. I have heard similar first-hand accounts from decent, fine, young Catholic men. God Bless.
22 posted on 04/11/2002 8:44:27 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Antoninus;patent;lent;longshanks;Freee-dame;maica
23 posted on 04/11/2002 8:46:23 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Antoninus
Thank you for this post. There is no greater work on this earth than purifying Christ's church. We must not rest until the last desecrater is removed.

I pray that the Lord will aid us against evil, and bring us to victory.

33 posted on 04/12/2002 12:54:44 AM PDT by Iris7
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To: Antoninus; *Catholic_list; patent; notwithstanding; JMJ333; Aunt Polgara; AgThorn...
From Anti-Catholic 'Experts' Fuel Church's Scandals

Homosexual Agenda

Shocking as it is, this is not an isolated case. Rose reports that another clinical psychologist, Dr. David J. Brown, screens candidates for the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown in Pennsylvania. Dr. Brown, he reveals, "has gone out of his way to make the case that homosexuality is perfectly normal.

"Testifying before a public school board in State College, he argued on spiritual grounds for legitimizing homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle in the public schools there. Brown told the school board that he was 'appalled' that the school district had excluded known homosexual speakers from Penn State University from making presentations to teachers at in-service day workshops."

We've been trying to get Brown kicked out here for years. A close friend here interviwed for Brown's position before Brown was hired. When questioned about his opinions on homosexuality, he replied giving the orthodox Church position. The priest interviewing him, the director of Vocations here, stood up and shouted "WHAT?!? You can't say that!"

My friend was not hired. Brown was. And we know good men Brown prevented from entering seminary for our diocese because of their orthodoxy.

Altoona-Johnstown Diocese Homosexual Scandal:

Part I - Link Between Homosexual Promotion & Penn State Catholic Community

Part II - Video shows Diocese paid psychologist advocating the homosexual lifestyle

And the lies here continue. Comments in BOLD are from a friend here who collaborated with Michael Rose regarding Brown for his book:

[ Thursday, April 11, 2002 ]
Priests, experts respond to national controversy

By Meghan Sedlak
For The [State College PA Campus Paper] Collegian

As several priests have nationally admitted to molesting young children and teenagers within their parishes, local citizens are responding to the incidents. In the past two months, the archdiocese of Boston has provided the names of more than 45 priests accused of molesting children, and dozens more nationwide and around the world are also being brought up on similar accusations. The Rev. Stephen Honeygosky, director of the Penn State Catholic Community, said that allowing priests to marry would not be a cure-all to the situation at hand.

"(This situation) has nothing to do with celibacy and homosexuality," he said. Some people believe it does have something to do with pedophilia, which is defined as the sexual attraction of adults to prepubescent children.

This situation has EVERTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. How can Honeygosky make such a comment, which is unconscionable given that we're talking about boys being molested here, not girls. There is a direct correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia as documented by the National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. Michael Rose's new book Goodbye! Good Men, which documents how generations of vocations were turned away from the priesthood is proof positive that a "gay" subculture exists in the Catholic Church that must be rooted out. Honeygosky's obfuscation on this issue contributes to the problem rather than solving it.- Gary L. Morella

"Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder recognized by the mental health community," said Gowen Roper, Penn State assistant director of The Psychological Clinic and assistant professor of psychology. "There is a diagnosis that can be found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, which has listed behaviors, thoughts and feelings. There are treatments, but the success rate of these treatments is variable." As more and more victims speak out, some churches are being forced to make amends for priests. Some parishes have begun to sell off property and other assets to pay for lawsuits that have resulted. Honeygosky said there are several steps parishes can take to limit further problems among clergy.

We're not talking about a "three strikes and you out mentality" which does not belong in the consideration of those who are supposed to be acting as an "altar Christus", "in persona Christi" (another Christ, in the person of Christ), which is what the Catholic priesthood is. You do not allow people guilty of child abuse anywhere near children. You do not take that chance for the very good reasons that we're seeing reported daily.The Church is not in the business of rehabilitating those suffering from severe developmental disorders, but rather of saving souls. The former is best left to what ever reputable psychiatrists and psychologists remain; the latter is the business of the Catholic priesthood. - Gary L. Morella

"We should be very careful in the screening of people that come into the seminary, and monitor their maturation spiritually and academically and sexually. We also need to teach them not to be afraid to talk about things."

Honeygosky's last statement betrays his true feelings. The Church had better be afraid of such things because being inclined to homosexual acts is not a red badge of courage for the Catholic priesthood. In this context, Honeygosky's statement above is contradictory. How can you claim to be careful in your screening process if you feel that there is not problem at all with those who are inclined to what the Church officially refers to as "an intrinsic moral evil, the inclination itself being objectively disordered?"

Somebody BETTER BE AFRAID ABOUT SUCH THINGS! The consequences are scandalous as we all now know. - Gary L. Morella

Honeygosky believes much of these problems can be attributed to the lack of communication within the Catholic Church, and the repression of problems. Newman Catholic Student Association Treasurer Steven Kiernan, in response to last week's comments by the Pope said, "Here on campus we have four priests who do an excellent job of performing their ministry with honesty and integrity."

The problems are directly attributable to the unchecked dissent from Church teaching that has been allowed to fester since Vatican II. The lack of communication that Honeygosky should be referring to is that of the direct intentional ignorance of Church Teaching in documents from Rome that are dead-on-arrival before the ink is dry. The dissenters have done their work well. In fact, THE problem is nowhere better evidenced than with Honeygosky's comments in the Penn State student paper. - Gary L. Morella

Representatives from Good Shepherd Catholic Church and Our Lady of Victory Church, both in State College, and St. John Evangelist Catholic Church, in Bellefonte, all declined comment.

The Associated Press contributed to this article.

35 posted on 04/12/2002 8:14:48 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Antoninus
Is anyone else as furious as I am?

You bet. A couple of years ago a friend of mine entered the (traditionalist) seminary of the Priestly Society of St. Peter in Nebraska under Bishop Bruskewitz. I asked him if he had considered nearby St. John's Seminary in Brighton, MA under Cardinal Law.

He shook his head and mentioned something about a "gay problem." Since I wasn't sure what he was talking about, I let it drop. The picture for me is becoming clearer.

39 posted on 04/12/2002 12:19:24 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Antoninus
I am going to buy this book. It seems to me important that all Catholics read it.
40 posted on 04/12/2002 12:40:10 PM PDT by B Knotts
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