FLAT TAX*** TIME HAS COME???

4/15/02 | ANAGM

[ANAGM]

OKAY Freep-peeps... Now open for discussion, the FLAT TAX thread. I for one think the flat tax is a great idea. My only issue with it is that it would likely put thousands of CPA's out of a job, but it would also do away with the majority of the IRS. I want to hear opinions from everyone. I myself, am self-employed so the flat tax is very appealing. I currently set aside about 30% of what I make to meet my tax "obligations". For info on the old ARMEY proposal got to flattax.house.gov Look forward to hearing from you all.

[Arthur McGowan]

It doesn't matter a bit if we get a flat tax. The INSTANT a flat tax is in place, there will be cries that it isn't fair that the rich are paying the same rate as everyone else. The poor will be easily convinced that if the rich are forced to pay more, they (the poor) will pay nothing. Back on the old treadmill.

The fairness of the "progressive" tax is simply self-evident to some people--namely, the vast majority. It will never be permanently got rid of.

[ANAGM]

"Why would a flat tax (i.e., a uniform tax rate) on income wipe out the "majority of the IRS" or render CPA's useless?"

Under the ARMEY proposal, you forfeit your deductions (weep), and the tax form is the size of a postcard. The simplicity of it all demands that CPA's and the IRS would have to reduce their numbers. Clint Eastwood once put it this way, if the flat tax were passed the IRS would be replaced by a little old lady and a PC.

[45Auto]

Term limits were a good idea - but they haven't worked out as expected. A better idea is to tie in a 10% flat tax, payable at the end of the year instead of skimmed off the top of your pay, with a limit on the legislative session - to about 90 days a year. And like Wyoming, every other year they can work on nothing but budget matters - not legislation. And to top it all of, every fifth year will be devoted to repealing or "sun-setting" lousy laws.

[Umanbean]

CPA = Certified Public Accountant. They have a degree in accounting. Something that seems to have been forgotten by a lot of people. A flat tax presumsumably would be based upon net income. An accountant would be the logical person to do the accurate accounting of a business so that the least amount of tax would be paid. They would have more accounting work.

[Andrewksu]

We need to impliment the flat tax, as well as eliminate all of these "special taxes" such as what appears on phone bills and the like. I really wonder what people pay if you include all of these hidden taxes, it wouldn't be pretty.

[45Auto]

he fairness of the "progressive" tax is simply self-evident to some people--namely, the vast majority. It will never be permanently got rid of.

Which puts us right back at square one. I would rather see a limit on the legislative session than anything else. We could save a lot of money if the crooks in Congress had something else to do besides screw up the freedom of the citizens of the Republic for at least 6 to 9 months out of the rear.

[HiJinx]

for at least 6 to 9 months out of the rear

Freudian slip?

[45Auto]

If you add up just the "big five" taxes - social security, federal income tax, state income tax (where applicble), medicare and sales tax - the bill comes to about 50% of your income. Then if you start adding up all the little taxes, like the federal and state excise taxes on tires, gasoline, park fees, etc, etc, etc. you wind up forking over 65-75% of your income to the rotten miscreants. Having that much money to play with is why someone like the piece of crap Senatrix from Cal, the dishonorable Dianne Feinswine paid out 35 million clams to buy her Senate seat last time around.

[CyberCowboy777]

From the Constitution Party Platform:

The Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, gives Congress the power "to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States."

In Article I, Section 9, the original document made clear that "no Capitation, or other direct Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census of Enumeration herein before directed to be taken." It is moreover established that "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."

Since 1913, our Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property have been abridged and diminished by the assumption of direct taxing authority on each of us by the federal government.

We will propose legislation to abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and will veto any authorization, appropriation, or continuing resolution which contains any funding whatsoever for that illicit and unconstitutional agency. We are opposed to the flat-rate tax proposals that are being promoted as an improvement to the current tax system. The Sixteenth Amendment does not provide authority for an unapportioned direct tax.

Moreover, it is our intention to replace entirely the current tax system of the U.S. government (including income taxes, Social Security taxes, estate taxes, and inheritance taxes).

To the degree that tariffs on foreign products are insufficient to cover the legitimate Constitutional costs of the federal government, we will offer an apportioned "state-rate tax" in which the responsibility for covering the cost of unmet obligations will be divided among the several states in accordance with their proportion of the total population of the United States, excluding the District of Columbia. Thus, if a state contains 10 percent of the nation’s citizens, it will be responsible for assuming payment of 10 percent of the annual deficit.

The effect of this "state-rate tax" will be to encourage politicians to argue for less, rather than more, federal spending, and less state spending as well.

[humbletheFiend]

Under the ARMEY proposal, you forfeit your deductions (weep), and the tax form is the size of a postcard. The simplicity of it all demands that CPA's and the IRS would have to reduce their numbers. Clint Eastwood once put it this way, if the flat tax were passed the IRS would be replaced by a little old lady and a PC.

I understand that the tax code can be simplified by, among other things, eliminating various deductions. What I don't understand is the connection between uniform rates and simplification. Once I've waded through the deductions and the more complicated parts of the code, the simplest part of the project is to find the appropriate rate. They even provide a table for that and making the rates uniform won't significantly simplify that task.

I do understand the usual philosophical arguments in favor of uniform rates, but I don't think that they have much to do with simplicity. And I hate to see the effort to create a simpler tax code stymied by its being attached to the more controversial demand for uniform rates.

[ANAGM]

Uman, you're right, CPA's are generally very motivated entrepreneur types and they'd find business likely. I guess my original comment was based on what I know of accountants, which admittedly isn't that much. However, would you agree that the IRS would take a big hit?

[John Jamieson]

Most tax payers who say they want a 10 or 15% flat income tax, already pay way below that. The bottom 50% pay an average of 4.4%. Flat tax will only help the $100,000 grand and up crowd. Most of you would pay more! People who are claiming they pay 30% are wrong, or make alot of money and are not managing it well, or are counting SS, which would not change.

I'm retired on about the average US income, I paid less than 5%.

Everybody do your math, how many paying over 15% of gross income now?

[jetson]

THE IRS IS A MONSTER WITH A BUNCH OF MORON ROBOTS WORKING FOR IT. FLAT TAX NOW!!!

[Umanbean]

I would hope so. I won't hold my breath. By the way, every "simplification" has made the code more complex. One more comment, CPA's do not sweat about the flat tax. Lenders will want detailed information and a postcard sized return would not provide the data necessary to analyze a business. (I have worked for a CPA for 21 years.)

[gitmo]

It looks like everyone is talking about a flat tax rate rather than a flat tax. If I go to purchase a refrigerator, the price isn't dependent upon my income. It has the same price for everyone. Shouldn't the same thing apply to government services? We should know the cost up front ... X number of dollars.

The problem would be that if we took the federal budget and divided it by the number of taxpayers, some people would not be able to pay that amount. Then there should be a huge cry to lower the amount. The most logical way to lower the price would be to reduce the spending.

Alas, logic has nothing to do with politics.

[fire and forget]

No argument here. Once the Constitution was breached with respect to the inviolable property rights of citizens, Pandora's box was opened. The rest is history. We're a great nation of great people. How'd we let this happen?

[ANAGM]

John, My father and I both are self employed and we sock away 30% for taxes. Are we missing something? Give me your CPA's number if you only pay 5%

[CyberCowboy777]

Your Right, everyone has to pay taxes. Every person must "feel" the cost of service!

[M.K. Borders]

I like the flat tax msotly because it respects the Contitutional gaurentee to "Equal Protection under the law", that is, everyone pays the same rate.

However I much prefer a repeal of income tax in favor of a national sales tax. I really do not like reporting my finacial dealings to the goverment. Also, I can much better regulate the taxes I pay through national sales taxation.

Unfortunately I cannot support a Sales tax unless the 16th Amendment is repealed.