Posted on 06/21/2002 6:42:36 PM PDT by RCW2001
Would i want an apology from Mrustow? Honestly it really would not matter to me...although his silence (and denial that i 'never posted a link') obviously shows he is either selectively blind or that he is either a juvenile (in age or mental capacity) or that he simply abhors being wrong! Actually i myself hate being wrong....however i remember several times on FR i have made posts that were not accurate...and i PROMPTLY apologized and retracted my posts! Why? Because it is not only the right thing to do but it is the sagacious and mature thing to do.
However you cannot expect everyone to act in a mature proprietous manner...some are only capable of spouting forth baseless curses of 'anti-semitism' and the like.
And one should not get angry with them. After all if someone is having a pavlovian reaction (from the experiments Pavlov did with those dogs where they would respond to certain stimuli 'automatically' by salivating) what can you do? You gave them (people like Mrustow and Zionsit Conspirator) certain 'stimuli' and thus they 'salivated' by automatically calling people names!
And even if you provide factual evidence they will either ignore it, or find another 'thing' to say! Same thing with Pavlov's dogs....even after the food was no longer provided they still salivated at the sound of a bell!
And by the way...knowing i am correct (and other Freepers noticed this) is better than getting an apology from some types! And i was right.
Had that happen too and I have no idea what they are talking about. Another favorite is to say you copied information from a racist site. I've had people do google searches on a word or a few words I've written, find those words on a racist site and then claim I didn't write them myself and I'm putting racist material on FR.
It is simply amazing what has been said on FR since 9/11.
I am posting your old message, and contacting you, because a number of individuals registered at FR have been misrepresenting your post. They have ripped one line out of context, and paraphrased it, to boot, to present you as either a traitor or an enemy of America, in order to serve their anti-Israel and, in most cases, anti-Semitic agenda.
I say, if somebody wants to flame someone, do it directly, and not by saying "So-and-So said such and thus," without letting one's target know about it.
Save your respect for someone who has to have it....."F***" me right?
The Israeli goal wasnt to kill Americans....it was to quickly disable the "spy" ship.
To the Israelis, American deaths were subordinate to stopping intelligence aquired by the ship from getting back to Washington.
The attack would've never come had some pussy Liberal President not woken up one morning on the wrong side of God and decided that he was opposed to the Israelis taking ground slated for them to have.
Hell, I respect them that much more for doing it knowing the risks involved.
LBJ was interjecting his political wishes into a situation that was about survival for the Israelis.
They did what they had to do.
I dont support anyone killing Americans...and I would've been the first one out of the hatch if called on to avenge their deaths but I would've been doing it sobermindedly knowing that they were simply trying to ensure that they took ground [the Golan Heights] that was supremely important to their own National Security.
LBJ stuck his nose into someone elses sovereign business and as a result Americans were killed. I hold him just as responsible as I do the Israelis.
The Israelis subsequently paid the families for it.
It is over.
Why arent you whining and crying about the Frickin British, or maybe the French, Mexicans, Spanish, Germans, Russians, Saudis, Iraqis?
They killed alot more Americans then the Israelis ever have.
Another Liberal Losertarian with an anti-Israel agenda.
31 posted on 6/8/02 10:43 PM Pacific by VaBthang4
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
I am posting your old message, and contacting you, because a number of individuals registered at FR have been misrepresenting your post. They have ripped one line out of context, and paraphrased it, to boot, to present you as either a traitor or an enemy of America, in order to serve their anti-Israel and, in most cases, anti-Semitic agenda."
If possible, could you give links to the offending posts where this is taking place?
Thanks.
I dont mind someone quoting me in order to discredit me, but if intentional misrepresentation of my words by other FR members is taking place I would like to see it myself.
Admin Moderator: I do not know that this is true and even if it is I am unsure if the offenders are breaking any FR rules, but I wanted to key you in if this is a problem.
Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari are Jewish names, not Muslim names.
I am saddened to be contacting you about a rather asinine situation (which usually would not deem to be worthy of even reporting under more mundane circumstances) but since some people seem to ahve taken it to reporting me to be an 'anti-semite' i would appreciate that if you bother to investigate the matter you have a look at the pertinent posts and decide who is abusing the other.
Although it really does not bother me when a Freeper calls me an anti-Semite (after all this is a forum for the sharing of ideas and opinions, and at times they are divergent) it does bother me when they continue doing so, and calling me a liar....and then contacting you as if i am the offending person!
Thus if you do decide to investigate the matter look at the posts i posted, and the ones Mrustow posted in reply. My original post was no.67....with Mrustow 'stepping in' at no. 93....and i replied his post in no.96. There are also other posts pertaining to the both of us.
Anyways if you deem any investigation appropriate please look at the various posts and decide who was doing the flaming and name calling. Again i reiterate that his comments really do not have any significance to me (since i know the credence of my posts....and his basis of calling me an anti-Semite is because i referred him to a certain thread that he said did not exist, and thus i was not only a liar but an anti-semite in his thinking). His assertions do not bother me one iota....however if he will go as far as contacting you i think i should also have my say! And i am sure after making the necessary checks you will arrive to a fair decision (if any is indeed warranted since to me this seems to be the rantings of someone who was proven wrong but just cannot let go...that is Mrustow called me an anti-Semite and a liar, and after i proved to him my references DID exist he could not let things be and decided to make a mountain of a molehill).
Anyway the decision rests upon you. As for me i have long left this rather inane matter and gone back to discussing important issues with Freepers who have better things to do than call people anti-Semites, and then mop and cringe when their 'basis' is proven to be asinine!
Thank you and Freegards
Spetznaz
Please post what I have said that is anti-israel, or anti-semetic. There is nothing. You show very bad form, did your parents teach you to accuse people of things and then run away when you can't support them?
No one misprepresented you. You comments from a post were printed in full. No one attacked you or called you a traitor. It was a debate with mrustow, where he called spetznaz a liar, and now refuses to apologize.
Well, i have also personally contacted the Admin (since Mrustow and his ilk decided to do that..otherwise i do not go running off to the authorities crying just because someone prooved me wrong, unlike some people)and i am sure once he (or she) looks at the pertinent posts the real perpetrator will come to light....after all i was not the one calling people names based on some 'formula' for sniffing out anti-Semites and the like.
And anyway to me Mrustow is not worth wasting my time over....the only reason i am actually still into this is probably out of a matter of principle, and because it is always interesting to me to try to decipher the mental cognitive processes of such people (who even when they are clearly wrong to other Freepers still try to hold on to their false assertions)!
Actually even Vbathang4 could not find anywhere i had misquoted him since i had put his statements verbotem and had not tried to alter them. He was not certain where i supposedly 'misquoted' him and was not sure Mrustows claims were true (and even told the admin. he was not sure of the credibility of that. Vbathang4 obviously is a clever Freeper who does not go jumping off into conclusions and thus clearly stated he was not sure what Mrustow was trying to say).
However Mrustow had to keep on keeping on! And i am bothered...nope! After all i consider myself well above some caliber of people! Well above!
I am still unsure as to where my comments were misprepresented. I went to the thread but that thing has so many layers on it that I decided to just FR the admin, figuring that if anything was out of order he/she would straighten it out.
Anyway...
Based on my Christian Faith I am a staunch supporter of Israel. Also based on my faith, alot of the standards of right and wrong that most people apply to the situation in the middle east goes out the window with me.
God's covenant is with Israel. Whether that is a perceived right or wrong is for others to debate but as for me...the Word makes it clear, so my position is also clear.
As a decorated former Marine 0331 I am confident in saying that 90% of the population of this country cannot utter a word where my Patriotism is concerned, but my bottomline, "push come to shove" Loyalty is to Jesus.
If my country and my own people go against Him....then that is their choice but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Honestly i really do not understand him because if you do not agree with someone you can agree to disagree (after all this is a forum for the exchange of ideas and there will be divergent opinions). However when Mrustow was proved wrong (even by other Freepers) he did not cease from his rather inane assertions but decided to contact you with some rather acerbic statements that i was using your name in a misrepresentative and nefarious manner! All i did was provide him with a link to a thread and a post (that you had written) since he had claimed that the way he had known i was an anti-Semite is that i had become 'over confident' and lied by referring to 'phantom posts' that did not exist. Actually here is a portion of the post he sent to me accusing me of not only being an anti-Semite but a liar:
You're lying. I dare you to come up with the thread and post number. I know, I know, how could you possibly be expected to go that far back ... especially to a post that DOESN'T EXIST. I have to hand it to you -- you are much more sophisticated than the average anti-Semite. The cool, calm tone, the claim that you are interested in the facts, the subtle bending of reports. Where you screwed up was in conjuring up a phantom post re the U.S.S. Liberty. You got overambitious, and as a result, you got caught. Thus, I am giving you a "B" for anti-Semitic propaganda.
Thus i found the post and referred it to him.....but at that moment he decided to change his cadence and call you up saying i was 'misrepresenting' you and dirtying up your name. If you look at the posts you can come up with your own conclusions as to how i 'misrepresented' you.
And to me it seems that you did not find a place where i was 'messing' with your name. However Mrustow has an obvious bone to pick (after all he was proved wrong and seems unable to digest that fact) and thus he decided to act in that manner. Honestly in my opinion he is the type of Freeper who should be ignored in favor of more intelligent discussion with Freepers who have more noble objectives than engaging in useless name calling.
Hopefully in the future Mrustow will check his 'anti-Semite detection formulae' to ensure he is correct before he starts calling people names, and then running off complaining to others when he is proven wrong.
Freegards,
Spetznaz
What was your motive?
With that I can agree.
February 2, 1996Pentagon lambasted by ADL for
doubting Jews' U.S. loyaltyMATTHEW DORF
Jewish Telegraphic AgencyWASHINGTON, D.C. -- Under fire from the Anti-Defamation League, the Department of Defense has repudiated a memo by its security agency warning government contractors that "strong ethnic ties" to American Jews allow Israel to steal military and industrial secrets "aggressively."
A low-level field official in upstate New York issued a confidential memo to defense contractors in October putting them on alert for Israeli espionage.
"The strong ethnic ties to Israel present in the U.S., coupled with aggressive and extremely competent intelligence personnel, has resulted in a very productive collection effort," the three-page memo states.
After the memo's existence was first reported in the February issue of the Jewish monthly magazine Moment, the Defense Department went public with its disdain for the memo.
"I want to stress that the content of this document does not reflect the official position of the Department of Defense," Assistant Secretary of Defense Emmett Paige Jr. wrote to Abraham Foxman, the ADL's national director.
"While we object to the document in general, singling out ethnicity as a matter of counterintelligence vulnerability is particularly repugnant to the department," he wrote.
The department stopped distribution of the memo in December and, as a result of the public outcry, has "canceled" the memo.
In a letter to the department, Foxman had chastised it for singling out Israel and its strong ethnic ties in the United States.
"This is a distressing charge which impugns American Jews and borders on anti-Semitism," Foxman wrote.
"In addition, we are disturbed by the general tenor of the memorandum considering the fact that Israel is America's longtime ally, considering the fact that only five years ago Israel refrained from taking military steps against Iraq despite Scud missile attacks because its U.S. ally asked for restraint."
Foxman called the department's response "the beginning, but not the answer."
"To issue a blip that the memo was canceled doesn't mean anything" unless there is a new memo sent detailing the department's policy, Foxman said.
In addition, Foxman belittled the department's claim that the author of the original memo was a low-level staffer. "That's her job" to write security memos, he said.
In a second letter Foxman sent on Tuesday, the ADL reiterated its request for an internal investigation into the matter.
Rep. Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), who is Jewish, added her voice to those calling for an investigation.
In a letter to Secretary of Defense William Perry, Lowey wrote: "I deeply resent the implication that American Jews would commit treason against their nation because of their Jewish heritage."
For their part, the department has "instructed appropriate personnel that similar documents will not be produced in the future," Paige wrote.
The memo labeled Israel a "nontraditional adversary" and warned contractors that "Israelis have a voracious appetite for information on intentions and capabilities relating to proliferation topics, i.e., nuclear, chemical and biological weapons."
The memo cited the case of Jonathan Pollard, a former U.S. Navy intelligence analyst serving a life sentence for spying for Israel, as a prime example of the danger faced by government contractors.
Pollard, who is Jewish, cited his loyalty to Israel as a reason for his espionage work.
"Pollard conveyed vast quantities of classified information to Israel for ideological reasons and personal financial gain," the memo stated.
Other incidents alleged include a 1986 theft of proprietary information from Chicago-based Recon Optical Inc., for which Israel paid $3 million in damages in 1993, according to the memo.
The memo concluded with an oft-cited charge that Israel gave China U.S. technology for the Communist regime's fighter-plane program. The United States has never proven the charge, which Israel has vehemently denied.
An Israeli official in Washington refused to address the charges in the memo but said the Pentagon response speaks for itself.
While the memo drew swift condemnation, the charge that American Jews have greater loyalty to Israel than the United States is not new.
Polls consistently show over the past 30 years that about one-third of all Americans believe that American Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the United States.
Another 20 percent of Americans routinely answer that they do not know where Jews' loyalties lie, according to "Anti-Semitism in Contemporary America," a study published by the American Jewish Committee.
ussliberty.org
bump
Guess I'll have to call in the Kosher Nostra.
Oy vey!
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