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The Fire This Time
The Wall Street Journal Online ^ | 21 June, 2002 | Staff

Posted on 06/21/2002 8:58:38 PM PDT by brityank

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:46:40 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

In December 1995, a storm hit the Six Rivers National Forest in northern California, tossing dead trees across 35,000 acres and creating dangerous fire conditions. For three years local U.S. Forest Service officials labored to clean it up, but they were blocked by environmental groups and federal policy. In 1999 the time bomb blew: A fire roared over the untreated land and 90,000 more acres.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: enviralists; esa; forestfires; gop; green; greens; landgrab; reuters; usforestservice; wildfire
Before the Clinton Administration limited timber sales, U.S. forests helped pay for their own upkeep. Selective logging cleaned up grounds and paid for staff, forestry stations, cleanup and roads. Today, with green groups blocking timber sales at every turn, the GAO says taxpayers will have to spend $12 billion to cart off dead wood.
1 posted on 06/21/2002 8:58:41 PM PDT by brityank
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To: *landgrab; *Green; *Enviralists; farmfriend; marsh2; dixiechick2000; Mama_Bear; poet; ...
Ping.

I thought this needed its own thread.

2 posted on 06/21/2002 9:00:15 PM PDT by brityank
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To: brityank
BUMP
3 posted on 06/21/2002 9:02:43 PM PDT by Exit148
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To: brityank
The WSJ editorial board on MSNBC (or is it CNBC?) were discussing this very topic tonight.
4 posted on 06/21/2002 9:02:45 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: brityank
Surely there is some lawsuit that can be brought against these "greens" for the damage they have done. The best thing is to bust them dry, take all their money, sue their sponsers blind until fat cats are afraid to spend their money supporting lame idiot organizations that can't just mind their own freakin business. And make darn sure that these organizations recieve zero government money.
5 posted on 06/21/2002 9:09:33 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Balata
ping
6 posted on 06/21/2002 9:10:31 PM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: MissAmericanPie
Great idea, but combined and with the connivance of our elected officials they have Billions of dollars and Millions of supporters to throw into the mix. They do need to be bled dry.
7 posted on 06/21/2002 9:25:41 PM PDT by brityank
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To: brityank
Thanks for posting this thread, brityank and thanks TaRaRa for the ping.

I think a strong argument could be made to get rid of the US Forrest Service. They are filled with Greens in their management which would make it impossible to reform and you know it is impossible to get rid of Federal employees.

Congress could then turn the Forrests over to the states who could manage them. If the voters of the state feel they failed then the Governor and responsible parties could be voted out. The state could keep some land as State Forrests and perhaps privatize a percentage.

Hopefully if anything good comes out of the Colorado fires it will be a national discussion of this problem. There are better solutions than to continue with current way of doing things.

8 posted on 06/21/2002 9:32:55 PM PDT by Balata
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To: Balata
If only the greens/liberals could stop playing G_d and focus some attention to their OWN families, instead of seeking out "causes" to distract themselves from reality, then this country stands a chance to balance itself into rightful thinking, which is also known as "common sense."

Thanks to Clinton, we all spend too much time these days contemplating what ought to "be" instead of what "is" and using the resulting insight gained to work towards solutions instead of being part of the problem. IMHO, part of the problem is the liberal/leftist mind that is prone to coming up with silly sausage theories about You and Me, and THEN gathers (selective) data to substantiate its claim.

9 posted on 06/21/2002 10:13:04 PM PDT by JusticeLives
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To: brityank
Thank you for posting this EXCELLENT column. It belies this cock-eyed notion that the USFS has been a poor steward of the land and lays the blame exactly where it should be. The majority of the men and women in the USFS have recognized this problem for years but have been powerless to do anything about it under the Clinton administration.

A couple of other facts I have heard is that the entire budget for fighting fires in 2002 will be depleted in about 13 days, on or about July 4th. In addition, there are approximately 5,000 greenie lawsuits pending against the USFS.

What a deal, huh?


10 posted on 06/21/2002 10:19:00 PM PDT by justshe
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To: MissAmericanPie
I agree. We need the Dept of Justice to investigate. A friend of mine pointed out that when the DOJ initially takes on certain groups, ie. tobacco, there is a huge outcry intitally but then it dies down and life goes on. I would think the same thing would happen if the DOJ were to start investigating some of the enviro groups and bringing massive lawsuits against THEM.

These groups are creating exactly what Bosworth addressed...analysis paralysis. With over 5,000 pending greenie lawsuits against the USFS, the bulk of their budget is going into litigation instead of putting the people out on the ground where they can do the most good.

I live in the middle of a national forest. My husband works for the USFS. The local enviros have totally hog tied the local office with lawsuits and FOI requests. It is time the DOJ used these same tactics against the enviros.

Unfortunately, often, the enviros win because the laws have been so poorly written that a judge has no choice but to uphold the enviros claims in court. And what the enviros are doing is LEGAL. Bothersome and expensive and brilliant from a 'tactics' standpoint.....but legal.

Sick, no?
11 posted on 06/21/2002 10:35:37 PM PDT by justshe
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To: JusticeLives
Right you are. Then add to that political correctness being on their side and we have a very difficult problem to solve.
12 posted on 06/21/2002 10:53:56 PM PDT by Balata
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To: brityank; tinacart; Saundra Duffy
ping
13 posted on 06/21/2002 11:03:00 PM PDT by farmfriend
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
A ping for my reply in post #8.
14 posted on 06/21/2002 11:03:48 PM PDT by Balata
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To: justshe
Unfortunately, often, the enviros win because the laws have been so poorly written that a judge has no choice but to uphold the enviros claims in court. And what the enviros are doing is LEGAL. Bothersome and expensive and brilliant from a 'tactics' standpoint.....but legal.

There is a solution. Both you and your husband should read this book. Good advise from the brat of a USFS man (now retired). HE hates spotted owls.

15 posted on 06/21/2002 11:09:33 PM PDT by farmfriend
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To: brityank; Carry_Okie
One solution would be to follow the lead of private timber companies, whose forests don't tend to suffer such catastrophic fires. Their trees are an investment; they can't afford to let them burn. Americans should feel the same way about theirs.

Amen!!!

16 posted on 06/21/2002 11:10:51 PM PDT by farmfriend
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To: justshe
Sick yes, sounds like some laws need to be changed.
17 posted on 06/22/2002 12:04:00 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: brityank
BTTT
18 posted on 06/22/2002 10:31:58 AM PDT by hattend
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To: brityank
Stop the attacks by the wacko, extreme left-wing, enviro-nazis terrorist's on our Freedoms !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

19 posted on 06/22/2002 1:57:40 PM PDT by blackie
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To: brityank
Here is an idea for an enterprising lawyer.

Start a class action suit against every evironmental group that has be against logging. You could even throw in politicians that have been against logging.

Sue them for the cost of fighting and the clean up and the damage of the recent fires in Colorado and Arizona.

20 posted on 06/22/2002 7:51:55 PM PDT by eFudd
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To: eFudd
Sue them for the cost of fighting and the clean up and the damage of the recent fires in Colorado and Arizona.

Wouldn't that be great!
But it wouldn't get past the first gate -- 'Act of God'; and since the government has effectively banned God from our political, legislative, and judicial venues, acts of omission and commission with respect to Him have no standing at the 'Bar of Justice'.

21 posted on 06/23/2002 4:10:37 AM PDT by brityank
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To: brityank
It really would not have to get past the first gate.

It would just have to tie up their time and resources fighting it. Just bleed them to death financially.

It is the same tactic they use against people who want to be productive.

Forest fires, oddly enough are part of nature. There are some species of fir whose cones do not even open up and drop their seeds unless they are exposed to the heat of a forest fire.

22 posted on 06/23/2002 7:15:57 AM PDT by eFudd
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To: farmfriend; Carry_Okie
Stunt Ranch has a nice write-up on the benefits of fire in the woodlands.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE LESSONS OF FIRE?

  • Fire hastens the recycling of nutrients necessary for plant life
  • Plants are adapted to fire and dependent on it
  • Some spectacular wildflowers will bloom only after a fire
  • Indians used fire to take advantage of its benefits
  • Fire helps control pests and plant diseases
  • Fire actually helps to protect wildlife by providing rich food sources

23 posted on 06/23/2002 8:08:30 AM PDT by brityank
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To: brityank
Sue them for the cost of fighting and the clean up and the damage of the recent fires in Colorado and Arizona.

Clinton EO 12986 exempted all NGO members of the IUCN from civil liability. Totally unconstitutional and still not reversed.

24 posted on 06/23/2002 10:33:06 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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