Posted on 07/18/2002 11:11:56 AM PDT by Michael2001
Edited on 05/26/2004 5:07:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
(which cannot survive on the strength of it's own arguments, so they have to stoop to crap like this.)
Martin had and has no "right" to ride, despite the court ruling. Making your own rules in a private club isn't a right. He can ride if the PGA players change the rules so he can ride. Are you familiar with liberty and conservatism at all?
Tiger is in better physical and mental shape than Mickelson and it shows at the end of the majors where Mickelson needs both his talent and stamina.
Look, I golf and I'm not bad. I also run. I know how I feel when I'm done running 3 or 4 miles and I know how I feel when I'm done golfing, I carry my bag. For you to sit there and say that walking doesn't make any difference in a four day tournament is just not credible.
But its your views on who makes the rules for a private organization that really bothers me. Lets extrapolate on your equipment example. Corey Pavin is a little guy and thats how God made him. He can't generate the clubhead speed that the big hitters can. Why shouldn't the court force the PGA to allow Corey to use Callaways new illegal club as an equalizer?
LOL!!! Oh yeah, very scary, hahahahahaha.
You may be right, however, I still do not see a men's only club the same as discriminating against race. I just don't.
Ooops.
Right off the bat this author is nailed as a liar.
As a matter of fact, Tiger told Nike to knock it off with those types of ads. He even came out and said he was never kept off a golf course in his life because of the color of his skin. This was all fairly well publicized, to the point that I am certain that the author would know about it. Making the author a liar and a fraud.
He does have the right to ride despite your pretend argument to the contrary. This is not about letting everyone with a temporary kink in their back or a sore foot ride a cart. This is someone with a permanent disability who developed the skill to become a pro. The PGA Tour was making up its own rules in violation of the rules of golf. He doesn't need the PGA Tour to change its rules because he now has the right to ride, a result of a ruling by the Supreme Court, a legitimate body that didn't have to hear his case, which thankfully is a conservative majority. This is the same Supreme Court that, thankfully, affirmed that vouchers are valid and that, thankfully, ended Al Gore's coup attempt. I know quite a bit about liberty and conservatism, but I am more concerned with right and wrong. By your reasoning Curt Flood was wrong to challenge the reserve clause in baseball, a private organization that would oppress its players by binding them to the same club forever, preventing them from reaching their full financial potential and perhaps even denying them a shot at the major leagues if the big club was already loaded with talent. I am glad that the PGA Tour has been forced to obey the rules of golf and that Casey Martin's right to demonstrate his golf talent can no longer be denied. The fact that Casey Martin is a nobody on tour further exposes the fallacy of his detractors' argument. Had he won 6 tournaments and a few majors in a single season, I would be more willing to concede that he may have an advantage.
Tiger is in better physical and mental shape than Mickelson and it shows at the end of the majors where Mickelson needs both his talent and stamina.
Are you trained in physical therapy? Besides the fact that he needs a man-bra, how can you tell Mickelson is physically lacking? Mickelson has beaten Tiger in regular tour events in the past. How is this possible? Did Tiger forget to do pushups those weeks? Mickelson came awfully close to beating him at the US Open this year and actually scored better on the weekend. His physical fitness and his supposedly tiring out is therefore not a factor. Your reasoning is total nonsense and you clearly know nothing about golf. Mickelson hasn't won majors yet because of his mental game and his sometimes faulty course management. He now may be psyching himself out to the detriment of his game, as demonstrated by his comments that he needs to play perfectly mistake free golf in order to beat Tiger.
"Look, I golf and I'm not bad. I also run. I know how I feel when I'm done running 3 or 4 miles and I know how I feel when I'm done golfing, I carry my bag. For you to sit there and say that walking doesn't make any difference in a four day tournament is just not credible."
There is a huge difference between golf's walking and intense running. Casey Martin was not asking for a car to run a marathon. I also play golf and am quite good. It is one of the true loves in my life. If not for being in med school, I would dedicate more time to it and would be one of the best players in my hometown. I had a scholarship to play in college, where we would have several matches a week. We had to walk and carry our bags. Never as a junior, high schooler, nor in college was I ever tired after matches and neither were any of my friends. None of us were triathletes. Golf is a great game and sport, I believe it's the greatest, but by no means is it high level athletics. Nor is it meant to be an endurance or physical fitness test. Jack Nicklaus, Tom Kite, Lee Trevino, Craig Stadler, etc. are great golfers but are not true athletes. The golf swing, from driver to putter, is a simple move and anyone with proper instruction and persistence can become very good at it. The US Open used to be a 3-day event, with 36 holes on Saturday. That was rightfully changed after 1964, when Ken Venturi won while almost dying of heatstroke at Congressional.
There are things a player can do to not be tired. Golf is not constant walking. You get plenty of rest waiting for other players and groups to play their shots. You can walk slower, brings snacks and drinks along, and sit down. Any professional who is physically exhausted after a round of golf has serious problems. Furthermore, pros do not carry their bags and are pampered all week. Very few players play more than 3 weeks in a row and pick and choose their schedule. Whatever fatigue they feel is more mental than physical.
"But its your views on who makes the rules for a private organization that really bothers me. Lets extrapolate on your equipment example. Corey Pavin is a little guy and thats how God made him. He can't generate the clubhead speed that the big hitters can. Why shouldn't the court force the PGA to allow Corey to use Callaways new illegal club as an equalizer?
This too is nonsense and a totally different issue. The USGA and R&A have equipment standards - for balls, clubheads, shafts, etc. If the governing bodies consider a certain item of equipment detrimental to the game, then NOBODY can use it. Period. Not Corey Pavin, not Tiger Woods, not Casey Martin with or without a cart. There is nothing that says short hitters must be guaranteed parity with long hitters. Whatever your talents bring to the table, that's it. This is not Outcome Based Education. What does this have to do with the PGA Tour not allowing someone with the required talent to play? While this nonsense was going on the head of the Euro Tour said that he had no problem if Casey would have gone to Europe to play. It was a no brainer that Tim Finchem and the tour was going to lose this case. Only the self-appointed guardians of purity and integrity who come up with fantastically impossible hypotheticals, such as people in wheelchairs being allowed to play in the NBA, were surprised by the ruling.
Now I've had enough of this topic and will comment on it no longer.
The reason you've had enough is because, despite the verbosity, you know you are wrong. You're arguing that Casey has a "right" to ride a golf cart is as stupid as your claim that walking is not part of the game.
And your support of federal intervention in a private clubs rulemaking is better served at DU.
And amigo, the Pavin, Martin analogy is dead on. They both are handicapped, Casey because of that awful vascular disease and Pavin because he's a little guy. Both are congenital and both effect their ability to play the game.
Cheers.
The liberals have the worst kind of slavery. Because he's partly black they think they own him and he has no right to his own opinion or thoughts.
The difference with the Casey Martin decision is that it comes down to balancing the desire of a disabled person to participate in an athletic competition and the right of the organization to determine the athletic demands of that competition.
I doubt that the Disabilities act was ever intended to apply to athletic competition, so the Court was wrong just on the interpretation of the law itself. Now, you state:
The PGA Tour was making up its own rules in violation of the rules of golf.
Well, remember that ALL sporting rules are "made up". After all, you yourself state later in your post:
The USGA and R&A have equipment standards - for balls, clubheads, shafts, etc. If the governing bodies consider a certain item of equipment detrimental to the game, then NOBODY can use it. Period.
So why is forbidding the use of carts different from forbidding the use of certain balls or clubs? In both cases, a ruling body is outlawing a certain piece of equipment which it feels will be determintal to the athletic competition. Why in the case of carts are you stating that such a rule violates the "rules of golf", but in the case of clubs, it's not?
I think the court erred in applying the Disabilities act to sporting competions. Sporting competitions by their very nature discriminate against the weak, slow, and disabled. I think now that court has gone down this road, one can expect even further muddle-headed decisions (especially if the court takes a swing to the left as the more conservative jurists retire).
It's very frustrating since I like the show and especially like her. I just wish Doocy would get back and return some sensible controls and civility.
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