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Forget Anthrax and Smallpox. This is what Saddam has planned for the U.S. and our troops.
1 posted on 09/26/2002 9:04:09 AM PDT by ex-Texan
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To: ex-Texan
Iraq an imminent threat? Naaaaaah. What's the hurry? Can't we wait til after the mid-terms?
2 posted on 09/26/2002 9:07:25 AM PDT by Huck
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To: ex-Texan
A bit of scare-mongering on the part of USAToday here - the key to botulinum toxin is that it is an enteric toxin, that is, you have to swallow it. Breathing it won't do you - that's why the U.S. stopped developing it as a biological agent. It's every bit as deadly as the article claims, but it is very difficult to distribute - putting it in the water supply, for example, is potentially deadly to anyone who drinks it immediately, but the toxin is a rather complex molecule that breaks down rapidly in sunlight or in the presence of chlorine.

This is also incorrect: Most people think of botulism as a scary byproduct of careless home and commercial canning, because the bacterium grows — and produces toxin — only in airless environments such as vacuum-packed jars and cans.

Not so - the organism (Clostridium botulinum) is anaerobic, that is, it reproduces in the total absence of oxygen. However, production of the toxin takes place in an environment where a tiny percentage of oxygen is present, a "microaerophilic" environment - a leaky can or jar, for example. That's why dented or swollen cans are a danger sign.

The toxin is probably most useful in a terrorist scare threat to a water supply, and then more so for the panic than actual mortality. On the battlefield it's virtually useless - it breaks down too rapidly to be an area denial weapon, and as mentioned above, doesn't have a handy vector to function as an antipersonnel weapon. As far as toxicity per volume it's the champ, but that's about it.

3 posted on 09/26/2002 9:21:03 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: ex-Texan
Baghdad could within 45 minutes send a missle over Isreal and air burst this toxin and kill millions. But Tommy Dashhole has other more important things to do like disrupting the Senate vote on Iraq for his Political pandering.
4 posted on 09/26/2002 9:23:39 AM PDT by Uncle George
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To: ex-Texan
Forget Anthrax and Smallpox. This is what Saddam has planned for the U.S. and our troops.

Not quite. For use where they have the artillery and barrage rocket launchers to deliver it, yes.

For use by Saddam's agents or co-conspiritors in the continental United States, I think it'll be something else, far more transmissible, and far more devistating both to the civilian population and the U.S. economy.

-archy-/-

5 posted on 09/26/2002 9:33:48 AM PDT by archy
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To: ex-Texan; All
Some useful info:

Nuclear, Biological, & Chemical Warfare- Survival Skills, Pt. II

The Web of Terror

Jihad! Across the World....

The little shop of NBC Horrors-- Yellow Rain-

The Poor-Boy Nuke-- Bioterrorism***

Sen Fred Thompson confirms Iraq is threat to U.S.

Links to information on Iraqi Nuclear Weapons Systems and Design (VERY Scary!)

IRAQ- some links to terror

6 posted on 09/26/2002 9:34:59 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: ex-Texan
The article is very interesting but has too much of the wrong information. I'm left wondering the following:
1. Is it the bacterium or the actual toxin that we're facing? If it is the toxin, how does it function in the body that a vaccine can work against it or is that the role of the antitoxin? Can a vaccinated person fight off the toxin? The article wasn't too clear.
2. How is it dispersed? Is it a powder, a volatile liquid, a fog of large droplets?
3. How does it enter the body? Must it be inhaled, contact mucus membranes, touch the skin?
4. How long can it remain in the 'environment' before degrading? Does it break down in sunlight, oxygen, etc? How long do surfaces remain contaminated?

I'd love for a knowledgable FReeper to fill us in.

8 posted on 09/26/2002 9:38:56 AM PDT by Lil'freeper
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To: ex-Texan; All
Hey ......Saddam just wants this for Botox treatment to his face! Just for Botox .......
13 posted on 09/26/2002 9:53:19 AM PDT by spetznaz
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To: ex-Texan
We can't forget anthrax or smallpox because the drug lobby won't let you. Follow the money. Then you will know & understand the treachery being placed on the citizens. Read about the cipro that was so costly & probably was a less effective antibiotic than simple penicillin or another cheaply priced drug. Again, you all been snookered. Just read it for yourselves.
16 posted on 09/26/2002 10:07:04 AM PDT by Digger
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To: ex-Texan
I think the article is way overblown, but hey, it will further support for going after Iraq, which we need to do.

Here is the first part of an article on the "Real Deal" with NBC weapons.

Link to full article

sourced at the Washington Compost

Words of Wisdom About Gas, Germs, and Nukes By SFC Red Thomas, Armor Master Gunner

U. S. Army (Ret) 10.19.01

Since the media have decided to scare everyone with predictions of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert.

Lesson number one: In the mid 1990s there was a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack, less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. CBS-Television's 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people. He didn't tell you the thousand dead people per drop was theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff is to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too).

Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (Read this sentence again out loud!). These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die.

This is far less scary than the media and their "experts" make it sound. Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and Incapacitating agents. Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians, they are not weapons of mass destruction. They are means of "Area Denial," effective to keep an enemy out of a particular zone for a limited period of time: terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area you almost always leave the risk.

That's the difference; you can leave the area and the risk. Soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy gear.

These are not gasses; they are vapors and/or airborne particles. Any such agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill or injure, and that defines when and how it's used.

Every day we have a morning and evening atmospheric inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day.

So, a chemical attack will have its best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise or sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles, the agents are heavier than air, so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast.

Attackers have to get this stuff on you, or, get you to inhale it, for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or injure you: too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to achieve with military grade agents and equipment. So you can imagine how hard it would be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff, the more you realize how hard it is to use.

Link to full article

29 posted on 09/26/2002 2:08:11 PM PDT by TexasGunRunner
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To: ex-Texan; All
-Iraq...NBC Warfare...Terror--
35 posted on 09/27/2002 4:59:43 AM PDT by backhoe
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