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Bambi's Mother in the Cross Hairs
The New York Times ^ | 12/02/02 | staff

Posted on 12/02/2002 8:47:38 AM PST by ppaul

Very few people like the idea of shooting Bambi's mother. But there may be no better way to slow the rapid expansion of deer populations that are devastating ecosystems in many areas of the country.

At least 20 million white-tailed deer are ranging the nation at the moment, a huge jump from only 500,000 in 1900, according to a recent report by Andrew C. Revkin in The Times. They plunder farm crops and alter the ecology of forests by eating the low-lying vegetation and destroying the seedlings needed for new growth. In the process, they displace many smaller animals from their habitat. Deer also plunder suburban gardens, help spread Lyme and livestock diseases, and cause an astonishing number of highway accidents. Each year more than a million deer are hit by vehicles, and while the deer are the biggest losers, the accidents kill more than 100 people and cost more than $1 billion for repairs.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to control a fast-growing population of animals that have few natural predators in most of the range they inhabit. The option preferred by many animal welfare groups — birth control darts or oral contraceptives — may work in self-contained environments like islands but are less effective when deer can roam freely. Sharpshooters have culled the deer in some localities, but they are often unwelcome in crowded neighborhoods. Capturing and moving the deer can be expensive and very stressful for the animals, who often die shortly after release. High fences and repellents can keep the deer out of specific properties but are impractical over large areas. Poisons and germs are too indiscriminate. Large predators like wolves might help stabilize the deer population, but most citizens would not regard importing such beasts as a good tradeoff.

Hunting seems like the best option in rural areas. It is certainly the most cost-effective method of deer control, since the hunters provide their labor free. Ideally, hunters should be encouraged to kill does rather than bucks, despite the resistance from those hoping for an antlered trophy. New Jersey has slowly cut its deer population to some 150,000 to 170,000 animals, wildlife officials say, largely by changing its hunting rules to allow more deer to be shot and to promote the shooting of does.

New York is home to more than a million deer, probably double the number a decade and a half ago. Although the state offers incentives to shoot females, deer have reached nuisance densities in many parts of the lower Hudson Valley and western New York. State experts estimate that in those areas, 40 percent of the adult does would have to be killed each year to keep deer numbers from continuing to explode.

In rural or forested areas, if the damage becomes too great, hunting of does will need to be expanded. But in suburban communities where hunting may be too dangerous, the answers are less obvious, and people who regard deer as very large vermin are pitted against those who admire these graceful wild creatures and feel humans should simply adjust. Concern over more traffic accidents and Lyme disease is pitted against the specter of hired marksmen piling up the bodies of surplus does. Neither alternative is desirable, but as the deer population continues to explode, suburban residents may have to opt for one or the other.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bambi; deer; deermeat; ecology; ecosystem; environment; environmentalwackos; firearms; forests; game; guncontrol; guns; hunters; hunting; huntingseason; meat; nature; outdoors; overpopulation; shooting; sports; venison; wildlife
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1 posted on 12/02/2002 8:47:40 AM PST by ppaul
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To: ppaul
Bambi's mother is some good eatin'.
2 posted on 12/02/2002 8:50:55 AM PST by headsonpikes
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To: ppaul
Very few people like the idea of shooting Bambi's mother. But there may be no better way to slow the rapid expansion of deer populations that are devastating ecosystems in many areas of the country.

And tomorrow, the Times will opine that it might hurt if you drop a cinder block on your foot. Masters of the obvious, these blokes are...

3 posted on 12/02/2002 8:52:47 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: headsonpikes
You should try deer veal.
4 posted on 12/02/2002 8:53:39 AM PST by bigfootbob
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To: ppaul; headsonpikes
The Lord God slew an animal and skinned it to put blinking clothes on Adam and Eves' backs. He killed for clothing. If he's not too good for it, why should we be? To judge a hunter is to judge God.
5 posted on 12/02/2002 8:54:28 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: headsonpikes
I like venison, but only when they prepare it right. Too often, I get some venison sausage, ribs or steaks and they're somehow waxy, I get this nasty coating on my teeth. Ugh. My favorite is jerky, though; you can't really go wrong with jerky.
6 posted on 12/02/2002 8:55:01 AM PST by egarvue
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To: ppaul
A supposedly pro-hunting article from the New York Times????

Can this be possible?!

Is this the beginning of the end?!??
7 posted on 12/02/2002 8:56:18 AM PST by RightResponse
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To: headsonpikes
Barbequed deer steaks...mmmmmmmm....
8 posted on 12/02/2002 8:56:55 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
500,000 to 20,000,000 in a little over 10 years is an incredible population explosion. And it certainly coincides with most peoples' everyday experience that there are a heck of a lot of deer running around, and that they are causing all manner of problems, not the least of which are accidents on the highway.

I realize that the population explosion has to do with fewer predators around and possibly increasing restrictions on hunting, but can this account for a 20-fold increase in the population? Are there other, perhaps undiscovered, factors also at work? Just curious.
9 posted on 12/02/2002 8:59:57 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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10 posted on 12/02/2002 9:00:33 AM PST by ppaul
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To: ppaul

11 posted on 12/02/2002 9:01:27 AM PST by EggsAckley
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To: ppaul
Very few people like the idea of shooting Bambi's mother.
 
Very few people who feel instead of think, anyway.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

12 posted on 12/02/2002 9:02:17 AM PST by South Hawthorne
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To: egarvue
What is that waxy?

Does anyone know?

Other than that I wish I could get deerburgers at Burger King everyday!

"May I have a Bambi-burger, heavy all , please?"

13 posted on 12/02/2002 9:05:26 AM PST by norraad
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To: ppaul
Now as for Canadian geese, there's a well managed government species control program. /sarcasm
14 posted on 12/02/2002 9:07:18 AM PST by lds23
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To: ppaul
The current estimates on White Tail this year in PA is 1.5 Million! The state has a human population of around 8 Million. They expect about .5 Million to be harvested this hunting season.

There are more deer in the US today than there were when the pilgrims landed on Plymouth rock.
15 posted on 12/02/2002 9:07:40 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: ppaul
"suburban communities where hunting may be too dangerous, the answers are less obvious" - Never heard of a shotgun or a muzzleloader? I will take my .270 WSM when I need to reach out and touch at 300 yards, but those two work fine when you have to know that the round won't continue for a mile. You have to exercise some stalking skills to kill at close range, but the rewards are just as tasty as delivered by a long range shot.
16 posted on 12/02/2002 9:07:52 AM PST by RKV
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To: ppaul
Very few people like the idea of shooting Bambi's mother.

Another fine example of projection. Rounds about where I grew up, the first day of buck and doe seasons were school holidays.

btw.. the best marinade for venison I've found is a mixture of red wine, maple syrup, and chili powder. It takes care of the gamey taste, and tenderizes some of the tougher cuts perfectly.

17 posted on 12/02/2002 9:08:51 AM PST by jz638
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To: All
I'm pretty dim so can someone explain to me why abortion is okay, but hunting is bad?
18 posted on 12/02/2002 9:11:48 AM PST by mbynack
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
500,000 to 20,000,000 in a little over 10 years

If you are right, and it is really 1910, I'm going on a real estate buying binge. My descendents, living in 2002, will be incredibly rich as a result of my shrewd selections.

19 posted on 12/02/2002 9:13:23 AM PST by per loin
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To: headsonpikes
This in the New Marx Times? AARRGGHH! My heart!
20 posted on 12/02/2002 9:13:24 AM PST by pabianice
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To: per loin
If you are right, and it is really 1910, I'm going on a real estate buying binge.

I think I will short the DOW Jones in the summer of 1929 and make a killing.

21 posted on 12/02/2002 9:25:04 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: ppaul
"....Unfortunately, there is no easy way to control a fast-growing population of animals that have few natural predators in most of the range they inhabit...."

Sure there is....open season on deer; no bag limit. Dummies.

22 posted on 12/02/2002 9:26:28 AM PST by Victor
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To: norraad
Bambi-burger....LOL!!!
I've made bambi tamales....yummmm, melt in your mouth.
23 posted on 12/02/2002 9:26:45 AM PST by shiva
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To: ppaul
I shot Bambi's mother 3 weeks ago with my muzzleloader. Then I shot her again last week with a shotgun. Those tenderloins were great.
24 posted on 12/02/2002 9:29:26 AM PST by Intimidator
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To: ppaul
promote the shooting of does

Here in northeast Texas, we see deer grazing on the right-of-way or crossing the road almost every time we drive anywhere. And we usually have from one to four deer grazing in our yard each morning and evening. But we have lived here over a year and have yet to see the first antlered deer!

Members of the family hunting here on the place usually get a few respectable bucks each year -- but the bucks are few and far between. OTOH, the does are like fleas -- all over the place.

We have a couple of antlerless deer permits for our (300+ acre) place, but it is obvious that the best medicine for the overpopulation problem would be a couple of years of open season on does -- and closed season on bucks.

Shoot Bambi's mother -- please!!

TXnMA (No Longer!!!)

25 posted on 12/02/2002 9:30:58 AM PST by TXnMA
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To: egarvue
This is what I do: melt a little butter (okay, a LOT of butter--I'm from Wisconsin, you know) in a large frying pan. Brown the venison steaks or chops. Add in a diced onion, some sliced fresh mushrooms, some garlic, some red wine or beer and saute until fork tender.
26 posted on 12/02/2002 9:31:51 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: ppaul
CWD will take care of it..
27 posted on 12/02/2002 9:32:17 AM PST by joesnuffy
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To: Victor
When my Wisconsin-born & raised daughter went to a township meeting about how to control the deer herd in & near Princeton, NJ, she suggested that an alternative to hunting would be the introduction of a couple natural predators--wolf & cougar. It didn't go over real well with the "give 'em birth control" crowd, but she figured that besides deer, it'd cut down on the number of little yappy dogs in her neighborhood, which she thought was A Good Thing.
28 posted on 12/02/2002 9:35:01 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: RKV
For that matter, a 6mm, from a tree stand (thus the round goes into the ground) works, as well.

Most of the objections come from people who object to shooting, PERIOD. They are the "no guns are good guns" crowd, and would rather that Bambi dies of starvation or broken ribs (car accident.)

Real animal lovers, they are...
29 posted on 12/02/2002 9:37:30 AM PST by ninenot
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To: jz638
8 oz Teriaki
8 oz dark heavy beer (drink remainder)
~1/4 cup mershed up garlic
~1/4-1/2 cup shredded ginger

Mix together, put in venison steaks, let sit all day or over night.

Broil or grill.

Yeee Haaawww...

30 posted on 12/02/2002 9:40:03 AM PST by Axenolith
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To: Axenolith
Now that sounds tasty!
31 posted on 12/02/2002 9:49:06 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: Intimidator
Fancy seeing you on this thread!

I got a Sika Deer on Saturday. It was the rifle opener. I watched this buck bed down about 40 yards from me and waited 2 hours until he got up to feed to take him. He went right down.

If you don't know, Sika deer are little Asian Elk that were brought over to the Eastern Shore of Maryland. We have a stable population of them and they are tasty.
32 posted on 12/02/2002 9:51:09 AM PST by CollegeRepublican
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To: ninenot
I guess it would be too much to ask to legalize "silencers" so that the noise wouldn't bother the neighbors, would it?
33 posted on 12/02/2002 9:54:46 AM PST by RKV
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To: ppaul
Mmm Mmm Good
Venison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
34 posted on 12/02/2002 9:58:58 AM PST by PaxMacian
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To: RKV
Just have suburban hunting be bow/crossbow. Along with a program of allowing "beaters" making noise to drive the deer from no-hunting residential areas towards the hunters
35 posted on 12/02/2002 10:02:25 AM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: ppaul
Bambi isn't "nature." "Nature" is Bambi and one of her fawns being eaten by Wiley E. Coyote.
36 posted on 12/02/2002 10:04:38 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: SauronOfMordor
Way too logical Sauron.
37 posted on 12/02/2002 10:10:45 AM PST by RKV
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: ppaul
I have to wonder what these guys think deer die from in the wild in the absence of human hunting...laying in a deer hospital with little deer respirators on and their families by their little deer bedsides? Generally speaking they either starve or are torn apart alive by predators. Deer hunting is cruel, yes...cruel to wolves, cruel to mountain lions, cruel to hyenas and tigers and lions and eagles...
39 posted on 12/02/2002 10:18:48 AM PST by Billthedrill
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: TexVet
Hey, come on up to Washington - we have an explosion in the mountain lion population of late, the Anointed having illegalized dog and bait hunting of those animals a couple of years ago. Now the mountain lions have discovered another delicacy - granola-munching hikers! It is very, very difficult not to have a certain sympathy for the mountain lions in this case...
41 posted on 12/02/2002 10:24:43 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
Here is another consideration: kids are probably more into computers now than hunting. That may or may not be a significant factor. Also, paintball games, silly as it might sound, might be diverting possible hunters as well. Then there was the ban on bad-looking single-fire rifles.

However, those two factors you mentioned are big reasons: harsh hunting regs, and fewer predators. It might seem abrupt, but don't forget the foaming-at-the-mouth wackos that Clinton unleashed in the EPA for 8 years. They grabbed up all kinds of land by hook or crook.

42 posted on 12/02/2002 10:24:44 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: EggsAckley
LOL! Funny pic. =]
43 posted on 12/02/2002 10:27:23 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: RightResponse
Yes.
44 posted on 12/02/2002 10:31:15 AM PST by Darksheare
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To: ppaul
Every year around deer season I get somebody to bite on one tired old gag of mine... some kindhearted soul will find out that I'm a hunter and as me, "You don't really kill Bambi, do you?".

"Of course not," is my reply. "My grandfather killed Bambi nearly 50 years ago for Chrissake!"

45 posted on 12/02/2002 10:35:46 AM PST by Kenton
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To: egarvue
"...you can't really go wrong with jerky."

Now, that would make a good bumper-sticker! ;^)
46 posted on 12/02/2002 10:56:03 AM PST by headsonpikes
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To: ppaul
My parents live in the quintessential NJ suburbs. There is maybe 2-3 acres of woods nearby. The deer that live in those woods are no longer afraid of humans. If I run through the woods, they don't run from me.

A little hunting is in order.
47 posted on 12/02/2002 11:46:07 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: lds23
I'd love to shoot every single Canadian goose I come across.
48 posted on 12/02/2002 11:47:33 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: per loin
If you are right, and it is really 1910, I'm going on a real estate buying binge. My descendents, living in 2002, will be incredibly rich as a result of my shrewd selections.

Guess I need to read twice before posting. Still .... it does seem like there are a lot more deer around, even if it is 2002 and not 1910. And sorry, about your descendants, guess they'll have to work for a living after all LOL.

49 posted on 12/02/2002 11:51:45 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: RightResponse
I was as shocked as you were. A pro-hunting position on the New York Times op-ed. Just wait till the reader mail backlash tomorrow.
50 posted on 12/02/2002 11:59:28 AM PST by tcostell
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