Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

China's position on North Korea and their strategic goals for Asia (China) (Korea)
my brain | maui_hawaii

Posted on 01/09/2003 8:59:42 PM PST by maui_hawaii

A recent article found here made the wheels turn in my head.

I have not spent the time to research this specific theory, hence I am writing off the cuff.

What are China’s long term strategic goals? What do they fear? What is the nature of Chinese leadership? Who runs China and how? Why do they do what they do in regards to North Korea?

{map}

Historically China has been run by a faction of one sort of another. Those factions had/have their fundamental ways of thinking that brought them to power. In China’s case, it was the lure of Communism, as well as anti-West and anti-Japanese thinking. Now they are trying to hang on to power. When I speak here I want to emphasize the utter importance of thinking. It is the core, fundamental foundation of thinking that brought them to power. That foundation of thinking is being challenged namely by US influence of creating open societies with free presses, etc. China is antagonized by the US because we do things differently that they see as threatening to their power.

Thinking is why the Chinese police the internet. That is why they squash dissent. There is a core fundamental theory that must remain intact for the CCP to remain in power. And, absolutely NO, it is not hardcore communism. Really it is not. It has nothing to do with Communism as we know it. Even despite all of the changes in China, their core beliefs are largely unchanged. Communist economics is only a small, increasingly insignificant side issue. They can run and economy, and stay in power. They will merely own the businesses. They will just be rich rulers instead of just rulers.

China had to reinvent itself. And it has, or is in the process. But its core fundamental beliefs have not changed, despite its economic changes. The nature of the regime has not changed.

China sees Asia as being led around in American thinking. That is why they demonize America so much despite the fact that America historically participated very little in China's past problems (opium wars etc). The differing "faction" is why this is not a problem with Taiwan, but it is with China. It is differing party beliefs just like party differences between liberals and conservatives.

Particularly this 'being led by Americanism' is the case with Japan, as well as Taiwan. South Korea is also on their list. They see this American thinking as a whole new set of philosophies and hence it challenges their grip on power. It is a threat to their very regime. It is not economics. It is something else. It is no different really than liberal democrat ideas being shoveled out the door at the hands of a republican win. Can you imagine the emotion of hardcore democrats? That’s the feel, only more angry and demonizing not toward a party, but toward America. There is a struggle for the minds of the people of China. That is what it boils down to.

China’s history with North Korea goes back a long time. North Korea is an old friend. The difference is, China’s ruling faction has evolved in order to maintain its grip on power. North Korea is China 25-30 years back.

With North Korea China sees longer term prospects for breaking the American “stranglehold” in Asia. They want N. Korea to open as China has opened, but maintain its party control. They want them to maintain their ideological basis.

In the process of that, N. Korea opening will project, over the long term, “soft power” in China’s behalf. (soft power= ideological beliefs). China and N. Korea are not ideological cousins, more like siamese twins. You can see the action in that there is pressure to ‘turn’ South Korea. I would not be a bit surprised if the Korean ‘sunshine policy’ was founded in Beijing.

The survival of the N. Korea regime is key to China’s long term strategy. Otherwise China will be even more isolated in the world. China does not want N. Korea to rock the boat because they know it will not survive. If it does not survive, China’s struggles to ideologically insulate itself from foreign thought will be frustrated. This is why China is willing to say things like ‘nuclear free Koreas’. They know this boat rocking will elicit a response and adds to the barriers for projecting ‘soft power’ (aka non American, even anti American thought) in Asia. North Korea’s brinkmanship is a threat to China’s plan.

China was showing the leaders of North Korea around trying to impress them with economic opening. They were doing so because it is in China’s interests to do so. For the regime in China to itself not crumble it must project soft power and insulate itself from “American” thinking. (“American” does not mean American, although that is how it is labeled.)

China though expresses its own set of frustrations at North Korea for its brinkmanship. It also expresses frustration over North Korea’s doggedly not adapting and accepting reforms.

Anyway, I have a lot of thoughts on this. It would take all night to compose them all. I hope you can gain the gist of what I have tried to portray. In short, it is all statesmanship. It is Chinese statecraft


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: chinastuff; clashofcivilizatio; zanupf
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-50 last
To: PhilDragoo
NK remains an accessory to China's four goals: 1) US out of Asia; 2) Absorption of SoKo; 3) Absorption of Taiwan; 4) Neutralized Japan. To which I add a fifth and the following prioritization of PRC goals: 1. Takeover of Taiwan 2. Getting US out of Asia 3. Neutralize Japan 4. Neutralize India 5. Absorption of South Korean thru North Korea
41 posted on 01/11/2003 11:29:06 AM PST by HighRoadToChina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: HighRoadToChina; maui_hawaii
Bill Richardson concluded "frank and candid" discussions with Ambassador Han, who assured Richardson North Korea does not wish to develop nuclear weapons.

During the "frank and candid" discussions, North Korea announced it is withdrawing from the nuclear nonproliferation agreement and called for "holy war" against America.

Riddle: How can an atheist nation conduct "holy" war?

Does this dovetail with Saddam saying last week that Iraq and other Arab countries should emulate North Korea's example?

Is this the ad campaign of the Faxes of Evil?

42 posted on 01/11/2003 9:47:22 PM PST by PhilDragoo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Mike Darancette
bump this thread to you
43 posted on 01/11/2003 10:57:42 PM PST by maui_hawaii
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: PhilDragoo
How can an atheist nation conduct "holy" war?

One simple answer, "Communism" is a form of Satanism. The roots of Marxism is grounded in the absolute hatred of God--Karl Marx was not an unbeliever of God, but rather one who believe in the existance of God more than a lot of religious people, hated God and wanted to get back at God--through a system that would create hell for God's children. And if we take a good look at history, Communism has done its job: killed over 100 million people.

Communism in China talks about forced "confessions", "rehabilation" of dead politicians, Mao's little bible, Mao as God, and on and on it goes.

So this "holy" war that NK talks about is a war of hell against the forces of freedom.
44 posted on 01/11/2003 10:59:03 PM PST by HighRoadToChina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
bump this thread
45 posted on 01/12/2003 1:35:23 PM PST by maui_hawaii
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: maui_hawaii
I don't think there's much doubt that China enjoys the fact that North Korea is a thorn in the side of the west, but they are also a thorn in the side of China. If NK weren't always so belligerent, the US would have withdrawn the troops from the Korean peninsula years ago. In other words, NK is keeping the US directly involved and influential in the very part of the world where China seeks to expand its influence.

I think China's influence over NK is also widely overestimated. The fact is that NK is a cult. It's more stalinist than Stalin ever was, and the Chinese economic model is quite different today from NK. About all you can say is that both have repressive governments that dominate their citizens. NK's is communist, while China has shifted gears and become fascist. Neither is conducive to dissent from their populations.

But what does China really want? I can't imagine that they're thrilled with nuclear bombs in the hands of nuts across their shared border. Nor do they want a united Korea that is pro-western. Ideally, I think they'd prefer the current situation to be defused diplomatically, and for unification to occur on terms that would eliminate US influence.

The surprising thing is that this is what was about to happen before NK started its uranium enhancement project. The SK sunshine policy was well underway, and even Japan was taking great steps toward normal relations.

Anti-Americanism was on the rise in SK, and all this was fitting into the Chinese goals for reduced US influence, and greater Chinese influence.

But the kooks running the NK government upset all that.

46 posted on 01/12/2003 2:05:31 PM PST by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
So you agree with my post then.

Good reply BTW.

47 posted on 01/12/2003 2:14:33 PM PST by maui_hawaii
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: HighRoadToChina
One simple answer, "Communism" is a form of Satanism.

In every instance, Communism mocks God with its variant of "Thou shalt have no other God before Me."

As with the Nazi swastika, the red star or hammer and sickle are icons of authoritarianism.

As you note, the Black Book of Communism has placed the number of sacrifices at 100,000,000.

The mountain of two million Cambodian skulls is nothing if not Satanic.

Now comes the alliance of Kim Jong Il with Saddam Hussein, two representatives of the cult of personality.

How ironic that Saddam Hussein's idol is Stalin.

The Stalinist Kim calls for "Holy War" against America the week after the Stalinist Saddam called upon Iraqis to "follow the North Korean example".

Nazis swore "we believe there is a God and Adolf Hitler is his chosen savior"--now in Iraq and North Korea such bodacity is the wet on the fish.

Following Unrestricted Warfare, being the observations of two PLA colonels re the vulnerability of the Great Hegemon to asymmetricality, China exploits every antiAmerican eddy in the world current.

Mao rode high on his ego, and his book was number one for hundreds of weeks.

But he was just another warlord.

Read, gang-banger.

Now the Jiang-banger intends to pull the strings, and Hu will say him nay?

Along with "God is not mocked" is an old Jewish saying,

Man thinks; God laughs.

48 posted on 01/12/2003 4:41:24 PM PST by PhilDragoo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: PhilDragoo
It's interesting that you mentioned about the Nazi swastika, because Satanism has to do with the reversing of the natural "flow" or order of things. The Nazi swastika is acutally the reverse of the Tibetan "swastika" that one sees on statues of Buddhas and has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years--except and a big except, the direction of the Nazi swastika is the reverse (clockwise) of the Tibetan one (counterclockwise). Just as the Satanic pentagram is an upside-down version of the 5-pointed star. If you ever take a good look at a picture of Karl Marx with his rediculous big beard, he looks like an upside-down person. Again, doing everything backwards.

That is the number one reason why Communism and its socialism counterpart must be defeated at all costs.
49 posted on 01/12/2003 5:05:00 PM PST by HighRoadToChina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: maui_hawaii
The Iraq/N Korea crises is another China plot against the USA. Let’s look at the chain of events in these few years. Either by design or just coincidence, the 9/11 attack on America is a master plan conceived by China. Actually, the war plan was first published on a book titled “Unrestricted War” (a.k.a. Asymmetric Warfare) written by two Chinese Colonels (Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui) of the People’s Liberation Army. Published three years before the bombing of the World Trade Center, the military manual clearly outlined such attack on WTC and frequently mentioned Osama bin Laden. Who has heard of bin Laden three years before 9/11? And, in China? China is known for keeping anything remotely military under secret. Why do they publish this book and put it on public sale all over China? Could it be just an alibi so that China can innocently claim: “We published this book just for fun but Osama bought it on the newsstand. Too bad.” Do you believe the link between 9/11 and China is pure coincidence? (A CIA translated English edition is available from newsmaxstore.com or amazon.com)

China’s plan was to weaken America both militarily, economically and, most of all, to diminish America’s political muscle as a superpower. When America attacked Afghanistan, China’s blueprint was to help the Taliban and al Qaeda to prolong the war to further drain America’s strength and to bog America down in an endless military conflict in the Middle East so that China can have a free hand in Asia. Fortunately, the Afghan war didn’t work out that way. But, only this time...

All these hostilities are not only directed towards America and her people. To put it more exactly, they are targeted at President Bush. Still reminiscing the good old days when they have a Democratic President in the White House which doubles as a Chinese mole. Convinced that they cannot bribe Bush like they did with the ex-Traitor-in-Chief Clinton, China’s top priority is to remove President Bush and/or to guarantee that he doesn’t get reelected in the second term. Even another Republican president is not acceptable. They can’t wait to have another Clinton in the White House again. Is Hilary another China’s dream come true? It’s better than having a ChiCom in the White House.

China’s clandestine conspiracy of inflicting the greatest damage to America without firing a single shot works so brilliantly so far. Most splendidly, America cannot do anything about it, not even pointing an accusing finger. Who can back-stab Bush and can still be a guest at Camp David? You’ve got to admire Jiang Zemin’s crafty old mind for this. Due to different upbringing, American politicians are inherently no match for ChiComs in terms of sinister and treacherous craft. How do they survive the power struggle in the CCP and come out as a winner in the Politburo? Which political party on this planet can kill 30 million of her own people and can still remain in power?

China’s insidious strategy against America is truly multidimensional. It mobilizes all economic, military, political and diplomatic ordnance in one concerted campaign. Just when the American economy is gingerly showing some sign of rebound, the blockage of America’s planned attack on Iraq is another diplomatic coup orchestrated by China. This time, aiming to disarm America instead of Iraq. Unbelievable? Here’s how and why.

By aligning the consensus of nations which has common interests in the Middle East and those who are beneficiaries of a significantly crippled America, China concocts a scheme that leaves America cornered in the international arena and powerless to actively defend herself against all future terrorist attacks. But, as we all know, no passive surveillance can effectively protect a country such as America against any terrorist attacks unless you turn it into a police state, which is equally detrimental to her economy as another terrorist attack. Even America is willing to pay the price, it would make President Bush very unpopular in the home front. Bingo, no second term for Bush. Hi! Hilary. It’s China turn saying: “Let’s make love, not war.”

Why the Sino-Russian-Franco-German alliance? It is just a marriage of convenience. After the first Gulf War twelve years ago, American companies are banned from trading with Iraq. Countries like China, France, Germany and Russia quickly jumped in to fill in the vacuum. These lucrative businesses are in clear violation of UN’s embargo but the international community just turn a blind eye to it. Chinese technicians are crawling all over Iraq. They are certainly not there for any humanitarian programs. They are building fiber-optic communication systems for Iraqi military installations. Due to the illegal nature of these businesses, the profit margin is obscenely high. These petrochem trades are not only limited to refining, distributing and selling Iraqi oil in the black market. French, German (and probably Russian) petrochem front companies operating in Iraq don’t even have to pay for the Iraqi crude in hard currency. As chemical companies, how difficult would it be for them to source those WMD (bio-chem-nuke) producing equipments on Saddam Hussein’s shopping list? German media have reported that German supliers are involved in the mobile labs and weaponized smallpox but Schroder covered this up due to the coming election. The anti-American platform he is employing would be seen as a bad publicity. See? Two-way profit. Iraq is a gold mine to them. By protecting Saddam Hussein, they are only protecting their important source of income which would be all down the drain if the Gulf War II becomes a reality. Moreover, the aftermath of a U.S. controlled Iraq is something they don’t want to see.

This brings us to N Korea. Reports have shown that Kim-Jong-Il had already obtained the necessary material from China’s PLA long before they restart their nuclear plant. This is supposed to be a well kept secret between the two brothers. Surprisingly, as if triggered by a remote control switch, Kim suddenly admitted the existence of their nuclear program, threw out the IAEA inspectors, revoked all treaties, followed by daily rhetorics and war chants against America. Why such high profile and provocative stance? Why now? Kim’s unexpected brinkmanship is just a show conducted by his overseer -- China. It is timed exactly as a window of opportunity to divert America’s military attention from Iraq so that America has to fight the looming Iraqi war with one hand tied. They have never underestimated America’s military strength to fight in two fronts. But one front against biological and another against nuclear threat might just be another story.

In the diplomatic arena, China (aligned with France, Germany and Russia) had concocted another scheme to further weaken America (and UK) in the current geopolitical position. By blocking the attack on Iraq, they want to establish an unwritten principle that the possession and manufacture of WMD alone is not a crime. Their argument is almost water tight, America has these weapons too, and so has Pakistan and India. Therefore, owning WMD alone is not a crime by recognized international law.

If the war on Iraq is successfully blocked, the UN, NATO and European Union are essentially sanctioning the ownership of WMD by rogue nations and leaving them untouchable. On the other hand, they are saying a terrorist can only be incriminated by their acts. One nation’s “terrorist” is another’s “freedom fighter”. No nation can attack them preemptively basing on circumstantial evidence. That means, unless they are apprehended in their act, terrorists are just as innocent as any religious group.

Let us combine the above two principles together. What is the implication? Is a mushroom cloud over New York or Washington enough evidence? Everyone knows that it is an atomic device smuggled into America but who did it? Just intention and motives are no solid evidence recognized by the international community. Up to this minute, Osama bin Laden hasn’t expressly admitted that 9/11 is his deed. If and when this happens, will someone like Joschka Fischer say “Excuse me. I am not convinced!” again?

Ridiculous as it may sound, if this philosophy is widely accepted as the international consensus, who in the world is more likely subjected to terrorist attacks than America? Is that what China and those who has everything to gain but very little to lose want to see? The bottom line is: As long as the WMD owner/manufacturer, nationless terrorist who delivers and detonates them in America, and the nations who harbor them are three separate entities, they are untouchable. No body can do anything about them. Not even America, the superpower (or ex-superpower), now the victim. In 9/11, you have seen an Arabic jihadist carrying out a Chinese plan from Afghanistan. Care to guess what the combination is for the next attack?

This plan is refined to perfection that even after the attack, with the jihadists martyred, America cannot accuse anyone. The most horrific is: the perpetrator is still sitting in the UN Security Council, smirking about America’s inability to retaliate and get at the mastermind behind these attacks. And, continue to humiliate America through political and diplomatic channels by accusing her of bullying, aggression and war mongering.

My deduction of the recent development is: the UN, NATO and EU are adapting dangerous policies that are affecting the very existence of America (plus a few of her true allies). And, America has very little room to maneuver but a great deal to lose. This diplomatic gambit is equivalent to an undeclared war in the diplomatic circle. If these policies become the new order of the world, frankly, I am not optimistic. I cannot foresee how America can get out of this quagmire because she is clearly outnumbered. Among other things, America is a superpower because of her military superiority. Once this advantage is nullified by this international scheme, not only America will become vulnerable. The world will be thrown into chaos. If the new order of the world is no order at all, what will it become without a police?

The treacherous scheme also makes attacking America a highly profitable business. All one needs to know is the exact date of the next attack on America. Then they can sell war sensitive stocks short on the stock market and/or sell selective commodities short on the future market. When the attack happens and the market crash, they are guaranteed to reap billions of profits from the market. They don’t even need working capitals since they are on the selling side. Is that one more reason for nations to side with and sympathize with terrorists? One little tip on the date of attack is worth billions of dollars. Is this how terrorists are financed and how they repay their supporters and benefactors? Is this why France and Germany change side? Bottom line: With America’s hands tied and rendered defenseless by the UN, NATO and EU, what counter measure does she have to stop this? They are making attacking America legal, safe, easy and profitable.

ChiCom has emerged as the nouveau riche of the new century and shed their drab Maoist costume for business suits. They have to at least look decent before their peers and cannot afford to be labeled as a rogue nation. Therefore, any vicious plan has to be carried out by hired hands (al Qaeda, Iraq, Iran) or by her client states (North Korea). This strategy of “war of proxy” will be used whenever China wants to hamper America until she is ready to challenge America with one major showdown, probably nuclear in WWIII. Apparently, America has no counter measure against the present and future Chinese instigated conflicts if China continues with this game plan.

China has long consider America as the only major deterrent to her aggression in the Asian region. For obvious reasons, China wants America out of Asian business, once and for all. China wants to have a free hand in Asian matters so that she can become the eventual overlord in the Eastern Hemisphere.

China has long been at odds with Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia over the oil rich Spratley Islands in the South China Sea; with India over disputes of the border; and, with Japan over the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea. Moreover, China now reckons that her military might is at least on a par with Taiwan’s defense and, obviously, China has the numerical advantage in the size of force. However, the only hurdle to a military advance across the strait is America’s intervention. Meanwhile, China has a time table to meet. They are eager to complete the reunification, by force or by political arm twisting, before 2008 -- the year of the Olympic in Beijing.

The current geopolitical perspective is much more volatile than the cold war era (How I miss Reagan and Thatcher, even Gorbachev). The once solid foundation of the world order is now eroded to the core. The borderline between wrong and right, unjust and righteousness are obscured. International organization such as the UN, NATO and EU are letting rogue nations to rewrite the definition of moral and principle. The diplomatic circle is infested with pests each with their own agenda to witness the demise of America. When the last moral foundation of human kind disintegrates, everything could happen.

After 9/11, the demarcation between what is “war” and “non-war” does not exist anymore. If America is committed to defend herself and her position as the world’s greatest democratic nation, she has to take her future in her own hands. America is now fighting to preserve her existence and needs no one’s approval for that. After all, no nation should be denied of her power to defend her survival. It is time for America to take her gloves off and do what has to be done, no matter how you dislike it. There are times when you have to stare eye to eye against evil. Just don’t blink.

I am old enough to come to observe that there are less than 10% bad guys in the world. The worst thing is: out of the 90% good guys, 70% of them are stupid. 27:73, that’s why good guys are always outnumbered. I don’t blame God for making bad guys. His intention is to give mankind free choice. But I do question God for making stupid people to rally around bad guys and protect them. Pray for America, President Bush and the troops.
50 posted on 02/25/2003 1:19:42 PM PST by FreepForever (China is the hub of all evil)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-50 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson