Detectives won't face charges in shooting of handcuffed man

The Courier Journal ^ | 02/25/03 | Andrew Wolfson

[Fred Mertz]

A Jefferson County grand jury declined yesterday to indict two detectives in the fatal Dec. 5 shooting of an African-American man holding a box-cutter knife with his hands cuffed behind his back.

''Every person in Kentucky, whether a citizen or police officer, has the right of self-defense,'' Commonwealth's Attorney Dave Stengel said at a news conference last night, after the grand jury's decision in the slaying of James Edward Taylor was announced.

[Fred Mertz]

This No Indictment story is big news in Louisville. This is the C-J leftist rag's version of events.

[Fred Mertz]

FYI

[DAnconia55]

Ah. Yes, the dangerous man who had a knife was it? while his hands were handcuffed behind his back?

Shot 11 times, I believe.

Yeah. Self-Defense. Right.

[FreeTally]

So, what exactly do cops have to do to even lose their jobs?

[Chad Fairbanks]

Have you ever dealt with a drugged-up individual in handcuffs? I have... You would be amazed at what they can do, even when 'restrained'...


I say this not to defend the cops (because, quite frankly, most cops and I fail to get along - arrogant jerks that they tend to be) but to point out that just because an individual is handcuffed, doesn't mean they immediately become harmless - ESPECIALLY when drugs are involved...

[freeper12]

>>So, what exactly do cops have to do to even lose their jobs?

Rat on a bad cop...short of that, cops can do no wrong.

[Nov3]

Fred was he shot 11 times while handcuffed behind his back? How could he wield a knife behind his back? What is the story here? I know the District attorney recomended that he not be indicted. If the grand jury had gone for indictment well then the Ham sandwich line comes into play.

I think this line is telling:

Stengel noted last night that his recommendation -- and the grand jury's decision -- ''don't mean mistakes were not made.'' He said those would be addressed in ''the civil arena.''

That tells me that if this guy wasn't a cop and shot a handcuffed lowlife 11 times the evidence is there for a murder indictment.

I am glad the suspect is no longer in the gene pool.

[Nov3]

You know I hope if I made a "mistake" "it would be handled in the civil arena". I think I would be rooming with Bubba fighting for my virtue.

[coloradan]

So you're basically saying that when cops make mistakes, there are slight changes in departmental policy, while when civilians make mistakes, they go to jail for years? It would seem to be the case.

[RonPaulLives]

I don't think we have heard the end of this story, by far. I have a suspicion that, like it or not, these police officers are going to be made examples of by the new "civilian review board."

If the whole civilian review board idea is foreign to the readers here, don't feel left out. It's also strange to those of us who live in Louisville. It is a proposal that could never grow teeth under the old government, but that the new Metro Council rammed down our throats (by a vote of 25-0, 1 abstention) without even posting on their ever-changing council agenda, two days after Mayor Jerry suggested it would be a swell idea.

[Nov3]

BINGO

[semaj]

Did anyone actually think the Grand Jury would prosecute one of its own? After all the guy they shot was black. < / DRIPPINGWITHSARCASM >

[Free the USA]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[Lion Den Dan]

What is the story here? ***

Read the article and then read the info on the Louisville web site.

I too thought this deal smelled when I first heard about it. There is definately more to the story than has been published until now. You need to keep in mind that a human can be hard to kill. The species is very tenacious of life.

[Lion Den Dan]

Thanks for the post and FYI, Fred.

[MistrX]

So, what exactly do cops have to do to even lose their jobs? Publicly endorse a Republican candidate.

[Smogger]

All I know is that if a civilian shoots another civilian eleven times after having handcuffed him. Your gonna have a tough time claiming self-defense. Boxcutter or no your gonna get prison time.

[Mjaye]

I've had people cuffed in back slip through the cuffs so they're in the front in a split second. I don't know much about this case as yet, but I highly recommend that anyone who thinks a knife or boxcutter is no match for an armed officer obtain and watch a copy of "Surviving Edged Weapons", distributed by Calibre Press.

Anyone who has seen and understood this tape will thereafter have a very healthy respect for being within 20-25' of an edged weapon. This is by no mean an OK to injure or shoot a person in cuffs, of course not, but they remain dangerous if they are merely secured with conventional cuffs and they have retained any weapon. Numerous officers have been killed by being complacent around cuffed persons, thinking they were secured.

[laotzu]

"The Rev. Louis Coleman of the Justice Resource Center said: ''This city . . . is no better than a plantation.'' "

Well....jump down, turn around, pick a bail of cotten Rev.
(we don't allow 'justice centers' on the plantation)

[elbucko]

If the whole civilian review board idea is foreign to the readers here,

We have a "Civilian Review Board" in a large city near me. It is political in the extreme. The mayors, from either party, use the board to "park" political hacks on it so the hack has an income while planning to run for some other office. Or to reward political supporters by an appointment to the CRB, so the supporter gets a city car, with driver and feels important. They have lunch with the Mayor.

CRB's are not, IMO, worth the money.