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To: Restorer
Any business owner should have the right to decide who is on his property.

No, you're wrong. Certain places of "public accomodation" may not refuse entry by people on spurious grounds.

By your standards, you can refuse service to a black man based on his skin color.

They were wrong to do this no matter how much we might disagree with the "peace T-shirt" (or with lawyers, for that matter).

How many times have we read complaints here on FR, about bookstore clerks refusing to display or sell books by prominent conservatives such as Ann Coulter? Let's not be hypocrites.

13 posted on 03/04/2003 5:31:26 PM PST by Illbay
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To: Illbay
You may want to read an interesting court decision on "free speech" done at a mall:

http://www.westbuslaw.com/cases/protesting_fur.html
31 posted on 03/04/2003 5:43:54 PM PST by HighWheeler
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To: Illbay
By your standards, you can refuse service to a black man based on his skin color.

I believe business owners should have this right. I also believe they would be very stupid to exercise it, and I would refuse to patronize such an establishment.

I also realize the laws have been passed and interpreted such that we no longer have this right. But, I believe those laws are not in compliance with the original intent of the Constitution.

43 posted on 03/04/2003 5:48:40 PM PST by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)
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To: Illbay
"public accomodation" and "compelling state interest" the two phrases that have grossly undermined property rights, individual rights, and have destroyed the presumption of liberty promised by our constituion, to be replaced with socialism and communism that renegade, corrupt, and intellectually deficient judges have used in the past in their non-sensical rulings.

Yes, it is a 9th amendment protected right, as an owner of private property, to refuse to sell or allow anyone for any reason onto my property.(skin color, hair color, gender, sexual orientation, religious orientation, lack of money, not dressed properly, not educated enough -- granted such discrimination may be bad for business, but that is up to the property owner to decide - free to choose, the essence of liberty)

Any compromise of this position is anti-liberty and muddles the important demarcation line between public and private property.

Government jurisdiction only exists on public property. Public property is taxpayer funded property: parks, schools, court houses, roads, firehouses, etc.

Not malls, restaurants, gas stations, homes, airplanes, country clubs, etc.

64 posted on 03/04/2003 6:03:54 PM PST by tahiti
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To: Illbay
Ditto.
84 posted on 03/04/2003 6:21:14 PM PST by doug from upland (Bill and Hillary's first instinct is survival.....their second is to lie.)
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To: Illbay
>>>By your standards, you can refuse service to a black man based on his skin color.<<<

Really interesting just where is there a law pertaining to that? You can do this with housing laws (very hard to prove) but I can sell to whom ever I choose and refuse sale to whomever I wish and I don't have to give a reason!
94 posted on 03/04/2003 6:27:20 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: Illbay
No, you're wrong. Certain places of "public accomodation" may not refuse entry by people on spurious grounds.

They did not refuse him entrance. Only that he wear appropriate attire.

161 posted on 03/04/2003 7:02:33 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: Illbay
How many times have we read complaints here on FR, about bookstore clerks refusing to display or sell books by prominent conservatives such as Ann Coulter? Let's not be hypocrites.

Bookstore clerks do not do the book buying for the stores. When the book buyer orders a book and a manager tells and employee to shelve the book, the employee (clerk) is not doing right by "protesting" the store's decision to stock the book by filing it in the wrong section or shelving it backside out.

If a bookstore owner chooses not to stock a book by a conservative author or even refuses to special order it for a customer, that is the store owner's right. There is no guarantee that the store owner will stock a book just because it is published.

The employees that hound customers for requesting/purchasing books aren't the owners. They are just snooty retail clerks.

The mall may not be able to prohibit the t-shirt shop from selling this bootleg (Give Peace A Chance was a slogan taken from a protected John Lennon song lyric) but there are probably restrictions in their contract on the nature of acceptable window displays. There are t-shirt shops that sell shirts with foul language on them. Would the mall be permitted to restrict the wearing of said shirt on the premises while still allowing the sale of said shirt?

There are stores that sell fancy underwear too yet that is not acceptable mall attire.

167 posted on 03/04/2003 7:04:41 PM PST by weegee
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To: Illbay
Let's not be hypocrites.

AMEN!

223 posted on 03/04/2003 7:40:43 PM PST by JimRed (God save Joisey from the RINOS!)
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To: Illbay
Illbay ? I wish you had the balls to do the proper social service . In the mean time go steal a life .
289 posted on 03/04/2003 8:30:21 PM PST by Ben Bolt
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private property rights? not quite. otherwise malls/stores would kick out the people asking for donations.
307 posted on 03/05/2003 1:30:33 AM PST by KneelBeforeZod (Deus Lo Volt!)
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To: Illbay
Wrong -- they can chuck him from private property. Don't confuse your legal concepts.

No shoes, no shit, no service. Those are not federal laws, those are just come rules many people choose to enforce. While it is true that one must make "public accomodation" so as not to run afoul of the equal protection clause, that is not what we are talking about here.

If I own a private business, I can through you out of it for no reason or any reason at all, so long as I have not discriminated based on race. Your right to free speech, however, doesn't get you through the door under public accomodation. I don't have to serve you if you or permit you on my property if you are pushing a policatical message or agenda I find offensive.

The color issue is a red herring.

386 posted on 03/05/2003 12:24:39 PM PST by Iron Eagle
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