In the Heart of France, Anti-U.S. Mood Softens

The New York Times ^ | 04/12/2003 (for editions of 04/13/2003) | John Tagliabue

[GeneD]

ORLÉANS, France, April 11 — Patrick Lebel watched the television images this week of a statue of Saddam Hussein toppled in Baghdad as joyous Iraqis danced about and he thought, as Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld did, of the Berlin Wall.

"It was purely symbolic, of course," said Mr. Lebel, 46, a heating systems technician, "but I thought of 1989."

Julien Vazzoleretto saw the same images, yet his reaction was equivocal. "One tyrant less," said Mr. Vazzoleretto, 25, who is unemployed. "But at what price?"

Even after the collapse of Mr. Hussein's rule, French disapproval of the war is overwhelming. Yet conversations with ordinary people in this industrial city along the Loire River show that they have not been left unmoved by the images from Baghdad this week.

Many remain shocked by the bloodshed and destruction. Others said that in their circles of friends, rejection of the war was softening as British and American successes mounted.

Many continue to mistrust American motives and to defend President Jacques Chirac, who opposed military action. They contend that the war, rather than drying the swamp in which terrorism grows, might distract from that crucial task.

All those interviewed said France and the United States must not let differences over the war translate into a permanent divide, though they acknowledged that mending the torn fabric would be arduous.

Mr. Lebel staunchly opposed the war yet appreciated the removal of a tyrant. The words that came to his mind when asked about American motives were dark: "hegemony," the "imperial idea" and "guardian of the world," he said. "If something threatens you, you have to eliminate it," he said. "It is justified politically; humanly, less so."

Mr. Lebel said he remained convinced that alternatives existed to war like "the United Nations inspections, maybe freezing Saddam Hussein's assets." America is mistaken, he said, if it thinks a military response to terrorism suffices without attacking social and economic ills that fuel militancy. "There has to be a political response," he said. "Terrorism doesn't come from nowhere, it's not the Immaculate Conception."

Yet he conceded that the British and American military success and the collapse of Mr. Hussein's government had already swayed some in France toward the American view, particularly conservatives, though sentiment could shift again if Iraq sinks into chaos. Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin warned against the virus of anti-Americanism this week; Mr. Chirac welcomed the collapse of Mr. Hussein.

"The first step has already been taken, by Raffarin, by a group of people, the Atlanticists, by some of the media," Mr. Lebel said.

Nicolas Poschard, a 35-year-old accountant, was less forgiving of the United States. "There are many economic dangers," he said. "Now you have to attack the whole world — Korea, Iran." No trace of chemical arms or weapons of mass destruction were found, he said, and broad swaths of Iraq lay destroyed. "Who is going to rebuild it?" he said. "We, the developed countries."

Nicole Keene is one of a minority among the French who says the war is justified. "I don't mean I was for it," said Ms. Keene, 59, the director of the local social security office. "But it was needed, in a sense."

Mr. Hussein, she said, was no less a dictator than the former Communist rulers of Eastern Europe. "You have to get rid of these people," she said. "There has to be someone who takes the initiative."

But she criticized the United States for being selective in the injustices it sought to mend. "I see the Palestinian issue, why don't they intervene there?" she said. "The Americans have lots of interests in the region. Yet the Palestinians have only rocks to defend themselves."

The collapse of Mr. Hussein had led some in her circle of friends to soften their criticism. "It is one thing if you see images of a child in blood on the ground," she said. "Yesterday, people saw images of the statue falling. Now they're changing their minds. It is good."

France and America must mend their relations, Ms. Keene said. Mr. Chirac's obstinacy was grounded in a desire to spare France terrorist attacks. But, she said, he would find it difficult to take the first steps to reconciliation. "Chirac has apologies to make," she said. "Whether he will, is another question."

That doubt was shared by a 33-year-old woman, employed at a shipping company, who bitterly opposed the war and seconded Mr. Chirac's opposition to it yet said she believed that the differences should not permanently divide France and America. "This is no good reason to question our historic ties," she said, declining to give her name.

As for Mr. Hussein's fall, she said: "At what price? And why him, and not another?" Yet Mr. Chirac and President Bush, she said, "are grown-ups; we belong to the same world."

Mr. Vazzoleretto said Mr. Chirac had been driven by a mix of anti-Americanism and genuine antiwar sentiment. "He was not in favor of Saddam, but he wanted to work with the United Nations," he said, adding that the chemical weapons the United States said Iraq possessed are "not there."

Guillaume Percheron, 20, an engineering student, said he had believed from the start that war was justified. "The regime there was disturbing," he said. "I thought it was right."

While most people in France say the principal American motivation for war was oil, he said he saw it as a reaction to the terrorist threat. "Sept. 11 was sort of the drop that made the bucket overflow," he said.

Strains in French-American ties would be temporary, he said. As for Americans boycotting French products, he was skeptical. "I don't think you can resist our wines," he said.

[battlegearboat]

Meanwhile, down in Africa...

[Eala]

In the heart of the U.S., anti-French Mood Remains Firm

As for Americans boycotting French products, he was skeptical. "I don't think you can resist our wines," he said.

I've had them (over there). They are marvelous. But I can easily resist.

[MoJo2001]

Strains in French-American ties would be temporary, he said. As for Americans boycotting French products, he was skeptical. "I don't think you can resist our wines," he said.

I can resist your wine, people, and government without a second thought. Be gone pond scum of France!

[polemikos]

And I should care what the Fench think because...???

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[Bob J]

These frogs are a hoot. The damage is done, you'll feel it for 20 years.

[Dolphy]

Julien Vazzoleretto saw the same images, yet his reaction was equivocal. "One tyrant less," said Mr. Vazzoleretto, 25, who is unemployed. "But at what price?"

Well, Julien, it will cost your French oil company billions and your defense contractors a little something too.

[PokeyJoe]

The French think?

[blake6900]

Nicolas Poschard, a 35-year-old accountant, was less forgiving of the United States. "There are many economic dangers," he said. "Now you have to attack the whole world — Korea, Iran." No trace of chemical arms or weapons of mass destruction were found, he said, and broad swaths of Iraq lay destroyed. "Who is going to rebuild it?" he said. "We, the developed countries."

Someone should tell this moron his president, Jacques Chirac, wants to help rebuild Iraq.

To the victor go the spoils and the last time France ever won a war was the French Revolution...and they lost that one, too...

[xJones]

Strains in French-American ties would be temporary, he said.

He wishes!

[rvoitier]

New York Times

I don't believe them either.

ps. I've heard Australian wines are great.

[Grampa Dave]

We can resist their wines which usually come in behind the good Napa Valley Wines and Australian wines in blind tasting without French Judges like in the Winter Olympics.

We can do without French Products and services for the rest of this decade. Here is a list of French companies and their products to avoid for the rest of this decade. Please keep this list and send it to your relatives, friends and fellow conservatives via e and snail mail!

*New additions to the list.

Air France

Air Liquide

Airbus

Alcatel - Based in Paris France, Provider of communications equipment, including ADSL equipment, terrestrial and submarine optical networks, public switching, fixed wireless access and intelligent networks.


Allegra (Allergy Medication) - Produced by Aventis Pharmaceuticals based in Strasbourg, France

Aqualung (Including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers, and SeaQuest)

AXA Advisors

*Bacou-Dalloz-Makes Industrial protective devices

Bank of the West - Owned by BNP Paribas

Beneteau (boats)

BF Goodrich - Owned by Michelin

BIC (Razors, Pens & Lighters) - Started in 1945 by Marcel Bich. Originally based just outside of Paris. Began trading on the Paris Stock Exchange in 1972. 40.5% Publicly traded. Bich family still owns 33.5%.

Biotherm (Cosmetics)

Black Bush

Bollinger (Champagne)

*Browning Firearms**

Car & Driver Magazine

Cartier

Chanel

Chivas Regal (Scotch)

Christian Dior

Club Med (Vacations) - Owned in part by Paris based CDC (Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations)

Culligan (owned by Vivendi)

Dannon (Yogurt & Dairy Foods)

*Danone -Lea and Perrin, Evian and other food/water

*Decatholon Super Sport Stores or MVP Sport Stores*

* Dassault Systemes-(CATIA design software)*

DKNY - LVMH acquired 100% of Gabrielle Studio Inc., the privately owned licenser of Donna Karan trademarks back in 2001.

*DMC THREADS

Dom Perignon

Durand Crystal

Elle Magazine

*Emile Henry French Cookware

*Enertec makes high speed recorders used in Recon aircraft p>Essilor Optical Products

Evian

Fina Oil - Billions invested in Iraqi Oil fields

First Hawaiian Bank

George Magazine

Givenchy

*Grey Goose Vodka

*GroupeSEB owns Krups, Moulinex, Roweta and Tefal Cookware

*Groupe Shneider, owner of Modicon and Square D

*Guerlain Fragrances

*Hachette Filipacchi owner publisher of many magazines sold in the USA. See the list below:***

Hennessy

Houghton Mifflin (books) International Herald Tribune - 181 ave Charles-de-Gaulle - F-92521 Neuilly - FRSource:World Business Council for Sustainable Development '00 [Domain Registration], [Corporate Profile]

Jacobs Creek - Owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989

Jameson (whiskey Owned by Pernod Ricard )

Jerry Springer (talk show)

Krups

****Lagardere****

Lancome

*Lea & Perrins a product of Danon

Le Creuset (Cookware)

L'Oreal (Health & Beauty Products)

Louis Vuitton

Marie Claire

Martel Cognac

Maybelline

Méphisto (Footwear & Apparel)

Michelin (Tires & Auto Parts) - Their phone number is: (33) 1 45 66 15 53 in France

Mikasa Crystal and Glass (purchased by ARC int'l in 2001)

Moet (Champagne)

Motel 6 - 33, Avenue du Maine- 75755 Paris Cedex 15 France

Motown Records

MP3.com

Mumms (Champagne)

Nissan (Cars) - Majority owned by Renault

Nivea

Normany Butter

Parents Magazine

*Perrier

Peugeot (Automobiles) - Pronounced "Pooh Joe", must be French

Pierre Cardin

Playstation Magazine

ProScan - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France

Publicis Group (Including: Saatchi & Saatchi Advertising)

RCA (televisions & electronics) - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France

Red Magazine

Red Roof Inns - Owned by the Accor group based in France

Renault (Automobiles) major owner of Nissan

Road & Track Magazine

Roquefort Cheese - All Roquefort cheese is made in France

Rowenta (Toasters, Irons, Coffee makers, etc)

Royal Canadian

Salomon (Skis)

Seagram's Gin

Sierra Software and Computer Games

*Sodexho Alliance* French Food Caterer for the US Marines

Sofitel (Hotels) - Owned by the Accor group based in France

Sparkletts (Water) - Owned by Danone, based in France

Spencer Gifts

Sundance Channel

Taylor Made (Golf)

Technicolor

T-Fal (Kitchenware)

The Glenlivet (Scotch) *Top Tobacco - Dist. by Republic Tobacco L.P., Glenview IL, made in France

UbiSoft (Computer Games)

Uniroyal

Uniroyal Tires - Owned by Michelin

Universal Studios (Music, Movies & Theme Parks) -

Universal Studios is owned by Vivendi-Universal, headquartered in Paris France

USFilter

Veritas Group

Veuve Clicquot Champagne

Vittel

Vivendi - Vivendi Headquarters, Paris France

Wild Turkey (bourbon)

*Winchester Firearms (US Repeating Arms)**

Woman's Day Magazine

Yoplait - France-based Sodiaal owns a 50% stake of Yoplait

Yves Saint Laurent

*Yves Rocher Cosmetics

*ZigZag (tobacco papers and roller products)*

Zodiac Inflatable Boats

*New additions to the list thanks to Freepers. If you have an addition, Freepmail me with the URL showing French ownership.

** Sad news but these two companies are owned by the Belgian Company Herstal, (French Light)

***List of 18 magazines sold in USA by Hachette Filipacchi with an estimated 50 million readers: American Photo, Boating, Car Stereo Review's Mobile Entertainment, Cycle World, ELLE Decor, ELLEgirl, Flying, Home, Metropolitan Home, Popular Photography, Premiere, Sound & Vision, Travel Holiday, Woman's Day Woman's Day Special Interest Publications.

****Lagardere owns the Virgin Megastore group in France, which it bought from Richard Branson three years ago. Its Hachette media division publishes a battery of magazines including Elle , see *** Hachette Filipacchi above. Lagardere also has a stake in the Airbus manufacturing operation. The company is capitalised at over €5bn based on last week's closing prices.****

[Welsh Rabbit]

Many continue to mistrust American motives and to defend President Jacques Chirac, who opposed military action.

Hypocrites. Or do they honestly beleive Chirac's motives were purely altruistic? I doubt it.

[EternalVigilance]

The one thing this piece said to me is that the French are as deceived and confused as the Arabs--and that's saying alot.

The infection of leftist and Islamist lies runs deep in these people. Hope they get the antidote before it kills em.

[saquin]

"It is one thing if you see images of a child in blood on the ground," she said. "Yesterday, people saw images of the statue falling. Now they're changing their minds. It is good."

It's truly scary how much their views are formed by fleeting images. Don't they have any ideas about the regime or the war irrespective of what images their nightly news chooses to show them that day? It just shows you how much power the media has to shape the opinions of weak, uninformed minds.

[F16Fighter]

"One tyrant less," said Mr. Vazzoleretto, 25, who is unemployed. "But at what price?"

The price is ALWAYS "too much" for the liberals of the world who themselves aren't at risk of being hacked to death in their own homes, or tossed into a jail that doubles as a tomb.

The biggest problem of the day for these morons is, "which movie to see," or "global warming."

[What Is Ain't]

Even after the collapse of Mr. Hussein's rule, French disapproval of the war is overwhelming.

And who in this country, other than the editors at the NYT, care what the French think?

Many remain shocked by the bloodshed and destruction.

Do they also remain shocked by the bloodshed and destruction of Hussein visited upon the citizens of Iraq? Or, is this selective reporting by the "paper of record"?

All those interviewed said France and the United States must not let differences over the war translate into a permanent divide, though they acknowledged that mending the torn fabric would be arduous.

Is this the NYT allowing others to state their view rather than having to deal with the backlash they would suffer if they had the guts to state it directly?

"I see the Palestinian issue, why don't they intervene there?" she said. "The Americans have lots of interests in the region. Yet the Palestinians have only rocks to defend themselves."

No anti-American NYT article would be complete without a reference to the innocent homicide-bombers who "only have rocks to defend themselves."

Who cares what the French, or their kneepad-wearing NYT toadies think?

[FITZ]

"One tyrant less," said Mr. Vazzoleretto, 25, who is unemployed. "But at what price?"......Guillaume Percheron, 20, an engineering student, said he had believed from the start that war was justified. "The regime there was disturbing," he said. "I thought it was right."

Interesting the difference. The unemployed 25 year old is likely a socialist who believes others should pay his bills, that money grows on trees and he shouldn't have to work, the other is a more logical type of person --studying engineering.

[Dog Gone]

Mr. Chirac's obstinacy was grounded in a desire to spare France terrorist attacks.

Oh, so they admit that cowardice was the key element. How French.