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Russian organization was training Iraqi spies, documents show (more info from Iraqi documents)
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | April 13, 2003 | Robert Collier and Bill Wallace

Posted on 04/12/2003 10:08:43 PM PDT by FairOpinion

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:42:15 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

A Moscow-based organization was training Iraqi intelligence agents as recently as last September -- at the same time Russia was resisting the Bush administration's push for a tough stand against Saddam Hussein's regime, Iraqi documents discovered by The Chronicle show.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; assassins; blair; clashofcivilizatio; commies; communistsubversion; documents; espionage; espionagelist; geopolitics; iis; intelligence; iraq; iraqhistory; iraqifreedom; kgb; moneytrail; mujahideen; mukhabarat; nuclearweapons; obl; oef; russia; sab; secretpolice; silvioberlusconi; spies; spy; taherjalilhabosh; unlist
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"Russia," he said, "has a lot of interests in that part of the world."

I bet they do!!!

This is not getting any better for Russia.

1 posted on 04/12/2003 10:08:43 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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2 posted on 04/12/2003 10:11:09 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: FairOpinion
I wonder why Russia has been so buddy-buddy with Saddam.

It's obviously not religious affinity--Russia's Muslim minority have been nothing but trouble since the USSR collapsed.

They don't need their oil.

What is it? "Birds of a Feather?"
3 posted on 04/12/2003 10:12:17 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: FairOpinion
*BUMP* ! I bet the Russkies are behind a lot more than training some Iraqi spies. A lot more.
4 posted on 04/12/2003 10:13:29 PM PDT by ex-Texan (primates capitulards toujours en quete de fromage!)
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To: FairOpinion
The more we find, the worse it may get. This is NOT good !
5 posted on 04/12/2003 10:14:18 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: FairOpinion
OH OH seem tonight is not very good for VLAD tonight after UK Sunday Telegraph busted him about him and the Russians are Spy on Tony Blair

NICE GOIN VLAD

I wonder this week is Russia is punching bag Next week it could BE FRANCE
6 posted on 04/12/2003 10:16:20 PM PDT by SevenofNine (Not everybody in it for truth, justice, and the American way=Det Lennie Briscoe)
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To: Illbay
I wonder why Russia has been so buddy-buddy with Saddam.
They don't need their oil.
What is it? "Birds of a Feather?"

----

Actually they DO need the oil, not necessarly for themselves, but if they could control the oil in the ME, which is 70% of the world's oil supply, they could literally control the world, by blackmailing countries into doing what they want.

If Iraq would have gotten usable nukes, then Russia, through Iraq could contol the ME.

I just came across another article, which says, that they found more documents showing that all the Iraqi secret agents were trained in Russia, which means, that Russia could really have been the one running Iraq, with Saddam as the figurehead.

Here is the link to the article I mentioned.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/892059/posts
7 posted on 04/12/2003 10:17:31 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: nopardons
yet our french and german socialist allies remain friends with Saddam. their is simply no morality to that troika.

I wonder if the iraqi scientist's german wife is east or west german and if she has WMD expertise???

8 posted on 04/12/2003 10:20:38 PM PDT by faithincowboys (God Bless Our Troops!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: ex-Texan
I am thinking they were the group of "fighters" in Baghdad that the reporters weren't supposed to talk about.
10 posted on 04/12/2003 10:22:09 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: FairOpinion
I am sorry to say it but this is nothing much. After a while we are going to chum up to Russia again. I don't like it but I expect it. France is another matter.
11 posted on 04/12/2003 10:22:22 PM PDT by Theresa (on)
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To: Illbay
Sorry, I meant the mention the other article, which first mentioned the close ties between Iraq & Russia

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/891912/posts

and just keeps getting worse.

Russia wasn't helping Iraq out of the goodness of their hearts, not was giving billions of dollars worth of stuff to them "on credit".

As I said, I am getting more convinced that the Saddam regime was Russia's puppet government and they were getting ready for the time, when Saddam, therefore Russia would control the ME. The easy way Iraq fell, also makes more sense with this assumption.

And I bet that if we had waited another year, it would have been too late.
12 posted on 04/12/2003 10:23:05 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: faithincowboys
That Axis of Weasels is a worry.

Oh, EAST, I'd bet, if I were a betting woman. LOL

13 posted on 04/12/2003 10:23:07 PM PDT by nopardons
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
"Those of us who wanted to believe in the good-natured soul of Pootie-Poot are increasingly disappointed. "

---

You and me both.
16 posted on 04/12/2003 10:29:07 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: nopardons
The 9-11 Hamburg cell and the under investigated short selling and all that we are now finding out might fit together in a terrible way!!
17 posted on 04/12/2003 10:29:21 PM PDT by faithincowboys (God Bless Our Troops!)
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To: faithincowboys
We'll be getting dribs & drabs of info, for YEARS. Most here, won't be " shocked "; I'd wager. :-)
18 posted on 04/12/2003 10:32:12 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Illbay
RE #3

Saddam's regime is a socialist regime, with long connection to Russia since the days of the Soviet Union.

Russia cannot refuse another source of abundant oil in Iraq, which is pretty cheap to extract unlike Russian oil. Luk Oil of Russia had a multibillion dollar oil contract with Saddam's regime.

Middle East has always been where Russians/Soviets would love to bleed America using their proxies, hoping to cutting down American power. It is still the same game even if the Russia is far weaker than the Soviet Union.

Apparently Putin gambled that Russia can take cheap oil and bring down the lone superpower by a few notches. This really disappoints me as well. Russians have been overplaying their hands, encouraged by anti-American Franco-German axis.

Now Russia's gamble failed.

19 posted on 04/12/2003 10:32:16 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: FairOpinion
do you remember recently seeing one of putin's lietenants give a press conference in front of curtains with Lenin's head on them-- a sign that we can't ignore. All the left worries about our administration and allows putin's creepy junta to operate without criticism. The russians now have a free media (or at least internet cafes) and this could destroy putin!!
20 posted on 04/12/2003 10:32:37 PM PDT by faithincowboys (God Bless Our Troops!)
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To: seamole
I like that indexing summary!
21 posted on 04/12/2003 10:34:12 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Where is Saddam? and where is Tom Daschle?)
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To: Dog Gone; SierraWasp; Grampa Dave; Gritty
Got some more interesting Iraq / Russian stuff here!
22 posted on 04/12/2003 10:35:27 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Where is Saddam? and where is Tom Daschle?)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Russia needs to be punished.

No WTO membership.

No Russian oil firms in liberated Iraq.
23 posted on 04/12/2003 10:36:15 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: FairOpinion
We , perhaps, send Russia a thank you card. That "wonderful" training helped the Saddam-ites SOOOO much!
24 posted on 04/12/2003 10:36:37 PM PDT by L`enn
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To: FairOpinion
This is the hidden story of this whole war. While the elite press likes to bestow upon France and Russia the awards of moral superiority, these two nations are absolutely corrupt. Russia has supported Saddam and his regime of terror with weapons, training, and everything else you can imagine. At the same time, Russia is pursuing a genocidal campaign in Chechnya. They have refused to let the UN or the Red Cross into the area. France poured billions of dollars into that fascist nightmare, even when they knew the money was not getting to the Iraqi people. These are the worlds moral "heavyweights". What a joke.
25 posted on 04/12/2003 10:39:41 PM PDT by Mr.Clark (From the darkness....I shall come)
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To: FairOpinion
Another article, actually written before these latest finds, says:

"Of course, the USSR was interested in creating outposts of its influence in the Middle East. It cooperated very actively with special services of the Iraqi regime, the regime of Saddam Hussein. Let's say, it is not a secret that Evgenij Primakov (former high-ranking KGB officer, Russian prime minister in 1998) was very actively involved in these activities. However, there is nothing unique. The battle of different interests was underway there and this battle is still underway now," Orlov says.

"I am convinced that there are many documents that are still secret [in Iraqi archives] -- details of cooperation between many other countries and Iraq, and the links that [Saddam's] Baath party had in the world -- all this is very interesting for Russian special services and for special services of many other countries. I think that now there goes a very tense fight for the access to these archives," Orlov says.

Well-known Russian defense analyst Pavel Felgenhauer disagrees. He says Russia's opposition to the war in Iraq may have been fueled not only by political considerations but also by fears that the real extent of Russian cooperation with Hussein's regime would be disclosed.

He tells RFE/RL that a source in the Russian ministry of foreign affairs, whom he declines to identify, says the Russian military actively and illegally cooperated with the Hussein regime.

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2003/04/10042003154305.asp




26 posted on 04/12/2003 10:41:10 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
As I said, I am getting more convinced that the Saddam regime was Russia's puppet government and they were getting ready for the time, when Saddam, therefore Russia would control the ME. The easy way Iraq fell, also makes more sense with this assumption. That is a very interesting speculation.

But it makes sense!

27 posted on 04/12/2003 10:42:43 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Where is Saddam? and where is Tom Daschle?)
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To: FairOpinion
Re #12

The easy way Iraq fell, also makes more sense with this assumption.

I beg to differ here. The reason Iraq fell so easily was because Saddam ruled only by mind-numbing fear. He did not have real charisma, which could inspire people. There was no patriotic ferver around which Iraqis can rally around, even if they hated Saddam.

It should be also considered that Iraq population is basically war-weary.

Incidentally, these two components, mind-numbing fear and war-weariness, also contributed to the swift downfall of Taliban regime in Afghan.

28 posted on 04/12/2003 10:54:28 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: tomahawk
"No Russian oil firms in liberated Iraq. "

---

Well, Russia is already angling for that. Do they really think we are that stupid? I hope Bush won't give in. They want to "cooperate" while they are publicly bashing us, and trying to stick another knife in our back.

From the Washington Times:

Putin offers help with postwar Iraq

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030412-31465608.htm

ST. PETERSBURG — President Vladimir Putin yesterday signaled Russia was ready to cooperate with U.S.-led coalition forces on reconstruction, saying Moscow would consider writing off Iraq's debts.
Mr. Putin also welcomed the fall of Saddam Hussein, but he repeated his criticisms of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, calling it illegitimate and a threat to international law.


29 posted on 04/12/2003 10:55:21 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: TigerLikesRooster
I don't think our opinions are inconsistent, they could both be true.

Saddam was a figurehead, and his Russian-trained security police was what kept people in line, but when the US coalition forces were coming, that wasn't enough to get them to fight.

I venture to guess that the "training" entailed more than "surveillance techniques" and some such, Russia may well have been planting double agents into Iraq, who were reporting to Russia.
30 posted on 04/12/2003 10:59:34 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: TigerLikesRooster
"Now Russia's gamble failed."

---

Spectacularly, I might add. It serves them right.
31 posted on 04/12/2003 11:00:59 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

Bush: " What the hell were you thinking Vladimir ?

Putin: " Ooops"

Bush: " Im headed to Damascus, and if you want to come to my next BBQ in Crawford I strongly suggest you sit on your hands and shut the fug up"


32 posted on 04/12/2003 11:05:19 PM PDT by antaresequity (...)
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To: FairOpinion
I just found another article which sheds more light.

I think until know we had all these dots, but couldn't see the picture, but now that we got these few latest pieces of information, all of a sudden the jigsaw puzzle fits.

Here is more on the motivation why Russia wanted to keep us out of Iraq.

Fall of Baghdad bad news for Russian economy: experts
http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030410154818.0npby67g.html

The fall of Baghdad is bad news for the Russian economy which is likely to lose out on oil investments in Saddam Hussein's Iraq and see the price of crude fall, delivering a blow to oil-dependant growth, experts said Thursday.

Russia's oil giants which maintained long-standing ties with Iraq fear they may be marginalised after a US-led war in which their country took no part, with waning prospects of obtaining crumbs from the table of what is already being seen as a postwar carve-up.

Russian oil companies have invested more than one billion dollars (euros) over the past seven years in Iraq's vast oil reserves -- second only to those of Saudi Arabia -- but they risk exclusion from post-war contracts because of Russia's fierce opposition to the US-British war.

With oil accounting for a substantial proportion of export sales, Russia's budget and its economic growth are closely linked to oil prices, and the International Monetary Fund on Wednesday revised substantially downwards, from 4.0 to 4.0 percent, its estimate for Russia's economic growth for 2003.

The sudden shortfall in revenues could cause the economy to falter momentarily, although in the long term it was always bound to face competition from Iraqi oil.




33 posted on 04/12/2003 11:12:23 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
I am not part of the fundraiser here. Just an ordinary American, who believes in individual Liberty, and Freedom.

I guess I've been around here for about 5 years or so now. Time sure flies!

When Jim Robinson started this site, it was because he was fed up with the liberal media, and how they would not let people worldwide know about the corruption of the Clinton Administration. A few of us, equally concerned, (with great luck) found it fast.

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Look at it now. We all get our best information from this site. It is huge, with thousands of posters, and millions of readers. Yet Jim still keeps it alive because of his conviction, and he is absolutely NOT making a profit on it. He just believes. As do we.

BTW, did you know that the founder of this site is in a wheelchair (sorry Jim; I know you think it doesn't make a r*ts a$$ difference. Hey, some folks out there need to come down a peg, like I have.).

Think of it! In the darkest days of the Clinton Administration, there was a lone internet site where people with integrity, brains, and sheer gumption could discuss the dangers faced by the US. Not on CNN, for sure.

Earthmovers like Drudge, Ann Coulter, Rush, WFBuckley, his brother, Savage, Buchanan, both houses of Congress (many) check in to see what we think.

The opposition checks it out, too. Like the NY times staff, CNN, etc. Trust me, they all come here to read. Even YOUR post. You know by now how they are whining about Rush? We're next, as soon as they figure out how they can trash this site without it getting a million hits.

I've been broke; I've been not broke. I've slept in my car. I know how it feels to be squeezed tight with bills. Folks with giant bills: You're not alone, and you have friends here. :)

If you love this site as much as I do, please, please sign up for automatic payment of just $3 per month. Don't be embarrassed if you think this is too little. It absolutely is not. You $3 a month folks are our grassroots movement heroes. Be proud. Become one of the thousand points of light here, and you will so feel proud every month. We'll thank you for it, and are so glad to have you on board.

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Would you please, please consider signing up for just $3 a month? Please? That’s all it takes, really, believe it or not. You will make a world of difference, to, well, the world. Be proud, Americans, and please help out!


34 posted on 04/12/2003 11:20:34 PM PDT by MonroeDNA (Communists & Socialists: They only survive through lies.)
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To: FairOpinion; belmont_mark
"The failure of US policy makers to comprehend the veiled aggressiveness and hostility towards the United States inherent in Sino-Russian strategy and the belief that the political and economic reforms in Russia and the partial introduction of capitalism in China have foreshadowed these countries' development into real democracies, have eroded the effectiveness of US policies in the foreign affairs, defence, intelligence and counter-intelligence fields. US policymakers have recklessly accepted the premise that Russia and China are no longer their enemies, but are rather potential allies and partners fully deserving of US support. Only countries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea - which (ironically, in this context) work secretly with Russia and China - are still considered potential adversaries.

US policymakers should urgently re-examine their assumptions about the 'progress' of Russia and China 'towards democracy'. They should take account of Sino-Russian strategy and should recognize that the long-term strategic, political and economic threat comes from a Sino-Russian axis and associated participants like North Korea, Iran, Iraq and Syria. The Russian and Chinese leaders are still committed to their objective of world domination and believe that, disguised as 'democrats', in accordance with Leninist teaching, they will be able to achieve it..."

35 posted on 04/12/2003 11:22:37 PM PDT by Orion78
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To: Orion78
Very interesting. Thanks for posting it.
I agree.

The original publication date is interesting too.

1993 -- Edward Harle 1995, 1998

Some people were telling us, and telling us, but it was easier to believe that the leopards changed their spots.
36 posted on 04/12/2003 11:35:21 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
RUSSIAN President Vladimir Putin today warned the US-led coalition not to attack other countries under the pretext of promoting capitalist and democratic values after having defeated Iraq's dictatorial regime.

"We are not going to export capitalist, democratic revolutions," the Russian leader told reporters as rumours in Washington allege that some elements of the US administration are mulling launching military operations against other Middle Eastern states.

37 posted on 04/12/2003 11:53:14 PM PDT by Orion78
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To: Orion78
Thanks.

Russia is "warning" us. The nerve.

I think we better put up our National Missile Shield fast, then we can really tell even countries like Russia and China where to go.

38 posted on 04/12/2003 11:56:16 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Blow for Bush as Russia agrees £27bn Iraq deal (8/19/02)
39 posted on 04/12/2003 11:57:44 PM PDT by Orion78
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To: FairOpinion
I think we better put up our National Missile Shield fast, then we can really tell even countries like Russia and China where to go.

uh then they will just smuggle bombs in from Mexico across our porous land border....
40 posted on 04/13/2003 12:01:40 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: FairOpinion
I think we better put up our National Missile Shield fast, then we can really tell even countries like Russia and China where to go.

I agree. We need to do it before its too late.

Russia May Expand Nuclear Doctrine (4/28/00)
Russia's hidden nuclear missiles: Clinton turned blind eye to major treaty violations (6/5/00)
Russia urges U.S. to reduce nuclear arsenal (11/13/00)
Russian Defector Warns US against Planned Unilateral Disarmament Measures (7/19/01)
Russians at Pentagon for missile talks {Russians get missile-shield details} (8/9/01)
Russia test-fires SS-25 intercontinental missile (10/3/01)
U.S. Says Russia Is Preparing Nuclear Tests (5/12/02)
Russia To Retain MIRV'd ICBMs Beyond START II Deadline (8/27/02)

41 posted on 04/13/2003 12:03:09 AM PDT by Orion78
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To: Orion78
WOW!

You have a treasure trove of amazing links!
42 posted on 04/13/2003 12:04:46 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: rolling_stone
They could smuggle bombs in from Mexico, but we still need a National Missile Shield. With Russia and China helping countries like Iran and North Korea, we need to be able to shoot down a missile before it hits, not just the ability to nuke the piss out of the enemy in return. Even one nuclear missile hit on a U.S. City is unacceptable.
43 posted on 04/13/2003 12:08:36 AM PDT by Orion78
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To: FairOpinion
Well-known Russian defense analyst Pavel Felgenhauer disagrees.+++

Better to say the well known stooge. he is the target of everyone jokes and rants. He just clown.

All right. Russia trained someone from Iraq I'm not surprised.
There many of training facilities there near Moscow.

I red somewhere that Russia sells weaponry and expertise to 72 states. WHo know what state will be american target tomorrow?

Then you will again speculate about Russia involvement. It is just russian business. To sell arms.
44 posted on 04/13/2003 12:11:36 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: FairOpinion
Thank you. I started collecting about 2 years ago. I have alot more bookmarked that need to be changed to HTML. Eventually they will end up on my homepage with the rest.
45 posted on 04/13/2003 12:15:04 AM PDT by Orion78
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To: RusIvan
It is just russian business. To sell arms.

That may be the case, but when Russia sells arms (especially nuclear and missile technology) to Dictators and Communists who turn around and threaten us with it, it becomes a problem.

46 posted on 04/13/2003 12:20:46 AM PDT by Orion78
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To: Orion78
Arms is NOT WMD. There no examples of Russia sells WMD.

Except your dearest defectors who defected 13 years ago when it wasn't Russia but USSR.
47 posted on 04/13/2003 12:23:05 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
Arms is NOT WMD. There no examples of Russia sells WMD.

Russia, China aid Iran's missile program (9/10/97)
Iran paid $25m. for nuclear weapons, documents show (5/10/98)
Russia says nuclear technology sales to Iran pose no threat (5/11/98)
U.S. and Russia Clash Over Shipment of Strategic Metal to Iran (6/12/01)
Russia, N.Korea, China give Iran missile aid -CIA (9/8/01)
Russia and Iran Sign Arms Deal; Nuclear Reactors on the Way (10/3/01)
Official: Russia committed to completing nuclear reactor in Iran (2/14/02)
N Korea eyes Russia as nuclear partner (3/26/02)
Russian Nuclear Minister Pledges To Complete Reactor Deal With Iran (3/27/02)
Putin Refuses to Stop Supplying Iran With Nuclear Reactor Components At Summit (5/26/02)
Russia forges ahead with Iran reactor (12/26/02)
Russia offers N-plant expertise to North Korea in order to diffuse the USA Crisis (1/11/03)

48 posted on 04/13/2003 12:27:42 AM PDT by Orion78
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To: RusIvan
US accuses Russia and China over North Korea bomb (10/19/02)
Iran's nuclear plant progress 'eye-opening' (3/10/03)
49 posted on 04/13/2003 12:29:35 AM PDT by Orion78
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To: Orion78
Ok civil nuclier reactors yes.

But where nukes sold? Show me please.
50 posted on 04/13/2003 12:30:33 AM PDT by RusIvan
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