Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic

Weekly Standard (via Matt Drudge) ^ | April 17, 2003 | SB00

[SB00]

TOM DASCHLE may no longer call himself a Catholic. The Senate minority leader and the highest ranking Democrat in Washington has been sent a letter by his home diocese of Sioux Falls, sources in South Dakota have told The Weekly Standard, directing him to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to his standing as a member of the Catholic Church.

This isn't exactly excommunication--which is unnecessary, in any case, since Daschle made himself ineligible for communion almost 20 years ago with his divorce and remarriage to a Washington lobbyist. The directive from Sioux Falls' Bishop Robert Carlson is rather something less than excommunication--and, at the same time, something more: a declaration that Tom Daschle's religious identification constitutes, in technical Catholic vocabulary, a grave public scandal. He was brought up as a Catholic, and he may still be in some sort of genuine mental and spiritual relation to the Church. Who besides his confessor could say? But Daschle's consistent political opposition to Catholic teachings on moral issues--abortion, in particular--has made him such a problem for ordinary churchgoers that the Church must deny him the use of the word "Catholic."

[madprof98]

An act of nullity does nothing to make children "illegitimate."

In terms of canon law, no. But that kind of hair-splitting makes no logical sense to anyone except a canon lawyer, as Sheila Kennedy explained in Shattered Faith. Her book, by the way, had the very good effect of derailing at least one Kennedy's political career. Unfortunately, it did not seem to make a dent in the scandal of annulment-on-demand in the American Catholic Church. That will not end until we have a new and improved set of bishops. Sounds as if the guy in South Dakota might be pointing the way.

[nicmarlo]

2004, I believe.

[Marysecretary]

All of them? Do I win the ceegar?

[strider44]

"Another matter is the "punishment" is selective. Thousands of Catholics who are public figures need to be instructed to cease calling themselves Catholic per this standard. That won't happen, because it would backfire."

I agree. The big problem is the Church has an enormous credibility problem right now. The Church can denounce Dashole all they want, nobody will care that much outside of practicing Catholics. The Church has more important things to denounce in my opinion. We may think it's important (people who post here frequently that are more religous than most of America), but the typical piece of crap democrat could care less about what the church says about Dashole. His anti-Bush, anti-war statements will have a much more damaging impact on his re-election efforts than some abortion flap with the Catholic Church. Just my $.02, but I could be wrong.

[JulieRNR21]

Glad you pinged me .......this is very big news indeed!

I had a discussion with one of my priests on election day about supporting pro-life Catholic candidates like JEB BUSH. This priest is an old (about 80) MA DemocRAT and told me he was voting for McBride.

I told him he'd better 'go to confession if he voted for pro-abortion McBride'! As you can imagine...he didn't take that remark too well. I'm quite sure he voted for McBride because a few week after he was gloating when pro-abortion Landrieu won the special election in LA.

This same priest had the gall to tell me that 'abortion isn't the only issue'!

[Protagoras]

I don't see how that means people can't call Catholicism a religion and must refer to it as a denomination, which was your "point" in the first place.

I never made any such point. People can call it anything they want. I just corrected them.

Some call America free as well, they can if they want, but it "don't make it so".

[SoothingDave]

Perhaps not in the eyes of the law, but what else is the point of saying a marriage never existed -- particularly when the request is made against the will of one of the partners, and by a POS Kennedy who just wants to get laid by another woman?

I would say first let us separate the issues here. One is the meaning of an annullment.

The other is whether certain influential people obtain them unworthily, or if too many are granted in general unworthily.

OK?

Now, I don't think anybody denies that the American Church has been way too loose in granting annullments. And I'm not about to tell you that a certain Kennedy is without influence.

So yes there are abuses. No doubt about it.

Now let's return to the definition of an annullment. It is a declaration that a valid marriage had never occurred.

However, this is not to make children of such a purported marriage "illegitimate."

The Church in general frowns on that type of labelling to begin with. No child is "illegitimate" in the eyes of God. A rapist's child in his victim is not deserving of death because of his father's crime and a child of a void marriage is not to be stigmatized.

If you want to talk about "legitimacy" of a child it is based not upon a later determinatino of fact, but the circumstances as they were known at the time. At the time of the children's birth, as far as anyone could determine, they were the product of a marriage. So they are as "legitimate" as any other children.

SD

[MeekOneGOP]

It is highly unusual, IMHO, for a church to ask that a member not identify him/herself with that church....highly unsual.

Yeah, I've NEVER heard of it ! Thanks ! Great news !

[nicmarlo]

This same priest had the gall to tell me that 'abortion isn't the only issue'!

Hmmmm....What would Jesus say about that? (I already know the answer : )

[Romulus]

What is not OK is demanding that Daschle retract the claim. That is beyond his pay grade.

Torie. If a politician were to peddle libelous falsehoods about Jews, would it be OK for the ADL to demand a retraction? Would this be "beyond their pay grade"?

Daschle's willful misrepresentation is an abuse of both freedom of speech and of religion; in demanding that he desist, Daschle's bishop is exercising his own constitutional rights.

[nicmarlo]

Great news !

Methinks O'Reilly's right: Daschole's on the slippery slope down; he's washed up, finished. (tra la la la la) : )

[SoothingDave]

But that kind of hair-splitting makes no logical sense to anyone except a canon lawyer, as Sheila Kennedy explained in Shattered Faith.

I'm 34 years old and I have never in my life seen anyone scandalised by the fact of legitimacy. Where we are now in this country illegitimacy is practically the norm, and for some populations it is.

Only a Kennedy would be distraught over such a thing.

SD

[capitan_refugio]

"... he spoke of California Governor Gray Davis's claim to be a 'pro-choice Catholic.'"

There is no such thing as a pro-choice Catholic. Only pro-choice former Catholics.

[luvtheconstitution]

There are too many politicians who have allowed their political ambitions to trump what is morally right, and that includes Catholics, Jews, Protestants, etc. It's apparent that most of them have forgotten that at some point they will have to answer to a higher authority.

[doug from upland]

First, the pedophile priests, then the RATS.

[Charles H. (The_r0nin)]

The Catholic Church has been using the same Creed for over a thousand years

Hmmm. Are you sure you want to make that assertion? Tell me, if a child dies three days after birth, before it has a chance to be christened/baptized, does it go to heaven? Hell? Research that question in Catholic doctrine before you answer.

As a medievalist by trade, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that the Catholic church has "modified" quite a few elements of its creed over the past 2,000 years...

[SoothingDave]

He's talking about the Nicene Creed. It has not changed since the addition of the filioque in 383.

SD

[PJ-Comix]

FYI: He's a French-Catholic at that!

Funny. Daschle doesn't sound like a French name....unless maybe it's Alsatian.

[js1138]

Pardon me for venting. I do not know of any church that is immune from influence by the rich and powerful, but I hope it is at least embarrassing.