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Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic
Weekly Standard (via Matt Drudge) ^ | April 17, 2003 | SB00

Posted on 04/17/2003 9:36:31 AM PDT by SB00

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Tom could care less about the thoughts (or the interdict) of his Bishop.

However, the story sort of punches holes in his "serious politician" garment and will be the single largest 'back-of-the-mind' issue in the upcoming election.

Hope the Pubbie doesn't mention it ONCE. He won't have to.
441 posted on 04/19/2003 9:13:29 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: Knither
Methinks the Bishop's interdict is based on Tommy's marriage problem. The abortion thing is a VERY close second.
442 posted on 04/19/2003 9:14:53 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: Knither
I suspect a lot of Lutherans will be cognizant of this, too. Remember that Tommy has to run against his own record when in flyover country, and there are LOTS of Lutherans who take religion seriously. That's two big strikes.

And if South Dakota ACTUALLY implements voter-registration reform, it should be curtains for Deeply Disappointed Tommy.
443 posted on 04/19/2003 9:17:45 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: Romulus

444 posted on 04/19/2003 9:20:21 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
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To: logos
What do ya think of this??

I'll be damned aye!

445 posted on 04/19/2003 9:26:45 PM PDT by sit-rep
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To: sit-rep
What do I think of this? I think Daschle is on his way out of politics, if not public life in general. In fact, I'll be surprised if he runs for office again.
446 posted on 04/20/2003 1:49:06 AM PDT by logos
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To: southernbychoice
I am not too sure, and feel free to look it up on the net, but I believe if you're divorced it would still be OK to get Communion assuming you were in a state of grace, since the Church would still consider you married (since the remarriage would be considered adultery), but if you remarry without the annulment and you get Communion you are in majorly deep doo doo.
447 posted on 04/20/2003 5:35:20 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Onelifetogive
Please stop with the agenda.
448 posted on 04/20/2003 5:37:42 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: TopQuark
I am very surpsised by your statement, which is false in both fact and attribution.

I'm not sure why my statement is false in attribution, TQ, since I attributed to no one.

In point of fact, I think my statement is accurate - the majority of the world's Jewish population lived in Catholic Europe before the 1930s and they were very prosperous and successful in a way they were not in Orthodox Russia or Protestant Scandinavia or England.

The Jewish communities of Catholic Poland, Hungary, Vienna and France were particularly numerous - and the incredible beauty and vast extent of Jewish cultural treasures in those lands, even after the devastation of the Holocaust, are still a breathtaking testament to their communal devotion and industry.

449 posted on 04/21/2003 4:30:52 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: TopQuark
Thanks for the honest post TQ. You certainly think everything through.

But I have a few problems with your post.

You approach is similar to measuring the number of dead people in a morgue by medical bill and concluding that there are only few bodies there.

I never said that the Rhineland pogroms were small - as a percentage of the Rhineland Jewish communities the pogroms were enormous. One of the reasons why the Nazis had to search so far afield for their victims was the fact that there were barely a quarter million Jews living in Weimar Germany - why? Because the Rhineland pogroms, eleven hundred years before, had all but eliminated Germany's Jewish community.

The inquisition could burn a person at the stake for something esoteric as the shape of the Earth, but not for murdering hundreds of Jews --- never once was such thing recorded.

Point of fact: no one was ever burned at the stake for a theory of the earth's shape by Church authority. It is a common belief - but if you look for example at the very first article of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa (surely, you'll agree, the quintessential document of the Catholic Middle Ages) he assumes in the course of a proof that the world is round.

As for the Inquisition executing people for secular crimes like the murder of citizens, it never happened. No Inquisition court ever sentenced anyone for the murder of Christians either. The Inquisition was a court of canon law. It would be like taking California family court to task for not charging Scott Peterson for the murder of his wife and son. Clearly California criminal court is the venue for such a crime.

it is your argument that is beyond contempt: the Jews were striving because they happen to have physically lived there. So do people in prison. And not all Jews lived in Europe -- only those who remained alive.

The Jews were not "imprisoned" in Europe. Jewish communities chose to live in countries such as France - if the Christian Huguenots could leave France en masse due to persecution, French Jews certainly could have as well. But they chose not to. The Jewish people were certainly imprisoned in Russia's Pale of Settlement by law - but no such legal structure existed in Western Europe.

They indeed strived in Spain: not until XVIII-XIX century did the Jews have centers of learning even comparable to those that they had in Muslim Spain.

I think most observers would argue that Muslim Spain was the most cosmopolitan and lenient Muslim society that existed before this century. How many Jews lived in Turkey, the heart of the Muslim empire, at that time? I can tell you that many Jews (like the great Rashi) lived in the heart of the Catholic power at that time.

If you want to jump to modern history, as late as before WWII, Baghdad was 40% Jewish. No capital of a European country has ever even come close.

The Jewish population of Baghdad before WWII was approximately 150,000. According to the Jewish Virtual Library online, Baghdad was 20% Jewish at the zenith of the Jewish community's strength there.

The Jewish populations of Vienna and Budapest in 1939, the two former capital cities of the Catholic Habsburg empire, were approximately 200,000 apiece, or as high as 12%. Within 300 miles around these cities another 3 million Jews lived. The Jewish community made up 12% of these capitals, and a significant percentage of the surrounding countryside. Jews in prewar Iraq were confined to the ghettoes of Baghdad and were therefore especially concentrated. Jews in prewar Austria were not confined to those two cities.

Among them is that Holocaust happened. Among them is also the fact that the Inquisition persecuted the Jews. For many, and apparently not for you, the degree of self-evidence of these two facts is similar.

The entire point of the Holocaust was to persecute and murder Jews. That was the sum and substance of the ideology that drove it.

The whole point of the Spanish Inquisition was to punish those perceived as collaborators with the Muslim occupation of Andalusia.

The Inquisition used religion and religious violence for political ends and, evilly, many Jews were scapegoated and killed by it. But the point of the Inquisition was not to eradicate Jewish blood from the Spanish gene pool.

Your larger point: namely that I am sick and tired of people equating being a loyal Catholic with being an anti-Semite and that my weariness with this constant slander sometimes pushes me over the edge of civility is true.

I hope you and yours had a peaceful Pesach and I hope that the recent action in Iraq and the increasing pressure on Syria will make the Jewish community worldwide safer from persecution.

450 posted on 04/21/2003 5:45:51 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: MrPeanut
Of course. Please name for me some medieval Catholics who thought that they could get to heaven by committing suicide while murdering Jews.

It should be quite easy for you to point to one medieval Catholic theologian who wrote a treatise endorsing this position or to specify some historical incident where a Catholic was declared a saint and martyr for murdering Jews.

451 posted on 04/21/2003 5:49:39 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Conservative til I die
Please stop with the agenda.

What do you think my agenda is??

Doing my small part to try to make the world a better place? Relaying my personal experience with Catholicism to as many people as possible to try and help them avoid the unnecessary pain of them or someone they love being entangled with Catholicism.

My wife's family traces their history through the Spanish Inquisition. It happened. Jewish families we forced to become Catholic (or suffer the consequences)

In more recent times, I have seen my brother-in-law's children disowned by their Catholic grandparents because they were not baptized Catholic.

I want as few people as possible to have to suffer the great harm that can and has come to people over the years when their paths cross with Catholicism.

452 posted on 04/21/2003 7:44:36 AM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: ninenot
Oh, thank you, Bishop. *Ü* I knew I would lose points on your exam by failing to bring in the part about "informed conscience," but my bluebook was getting full. How many credit hours is this course, anyway?

Personally, it looks to me like a lot of laypeople's consciences are better formed than the pedophile-reassigning, "just do anything to avoid scandal" bishops.
All depends on your values. Some people value Christian charity above appearances.
453 posted on 04/21/2003 7:50:13 PM PDT by Knither
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To: SB00
454 posted on 08/05/2003 5:34:30 PM PDT by votelife (Free Bill Pryor)
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To: votelife
12 Week Old Baby Walks In the Womb!!
455 posted on 06/28/2004 1:47:08 PM PDT by ConservativeMan55 (
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