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In Defence of Sen. Rick Santorum - Criticism of Gay Sex Acts is Not Equal to Racism
myself

Posted on 04/23/2003 3:14:07 PM PDT by AveMaria

If the Moderator will permit me, I want to post this message to express my concerns over the hysterical attacks on Sen. Rick Santorum, by the organized gay lobby.

I am new here, and I just registered, after having been a lurker for 3 weeks. I am from Philadelphia, and my representatives in the Senate are Arlen Spector and Rick Santorum. I am a political independent, who is fiscally liberal but conservative on social issues (I admire FDR, Truman, and LBJ). I have strong disagreements with Sen. Santorum's political philosophy mostly over issues concerning the poor and underprivileged in Philadelphia, and because I am from the Social Justice tradition of the Catholic Church, while he is more of a Calvinized Catholic on economic and social justice issues. But I take the teachings of the Church on traditional morality and family, very seriously. And part of those teachings obligate me to defend Santorum, a man I disagree with vigorously on economic issues, if I feel that he is being attacked unfairly. Here are some of the myths I want to challenge, as a way to help those who want to defend Santorum among progressive circles:

MYTH #1: The Constitution guarantees a right to Privacy.

The reality is that there is no right to privacy enshrined in the Constitution. There are many things you could do within the privacy of your own home that are illegal. It is illegal to use drugs in your own home, even if you may be using marijuana you cultivated as a potted plant at home, and did not buy from a dealer. And as Sen. Santorum pointed out so eloquently, polygamy, bigamy and Incest are illegal, even when practiced by consenting adults within the confines of their own home. What Sen. Santorum was trying to say is that - if a state has absolutely no right to regulate homosexual sodomy on privacy grounds, then on what legal basis would the state challenge a man living with three women, or a father having an affair with his 21 year old daughter?

MYTH #2: Sen. Santorum's statement challenged those strongly committed to diversity and multi-culturalism.

On the contrary. Most of the world's cultures and major religions do not agree on much. But one thing they all agree on, is that homosexual acts (not people) are sinful, repugnant, disgusting, sick, nauseating, and perverse. That is true if you are a traditionalist Catholic, a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, a conservative Protestant, an Orthodox Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu, a traditionalist Buddhist, a Sikh, etc. Even the Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of the Tibetan Muslims, who has ties to Hollywood elites, is on record as having described homosexuality as a sin. I was amazed to discover that even the peace-loving and Pacifist Bahais, oppose gay sex acts. What more multi-culturalism can you ask for?

MYTH #3: Criticism of homosexual Acts is the same as racism.

So many people have suffered from the pain of racism in the past, and there are many racial minorities who suffer today in terms of housing discrimination, discrimination in department stores, restaurant tables, and other humiliations. Too often in the past, the Christian Church failed to forcefully condemn racial bigotry as a sin. As a way to compensate for such glaring injustice, many well meaning white liberal Christians who care about social justice issues as much as I do, are too willing to endorse deviant acts as "okay", as a way to prove to themselves that they are not bigots.

But they fail to realize the fact that sodomy is BEHAVIORAL ACT, and not an unchangeable physiological feature like skin color. The pain of racism is very real, because people cannot change their skin color. But men can will themselves not to commit acts of sodomy, by keeping their pants zipped up. Racial minorities understand this very clearly, and that is why a majority of blacks and hispanics in California supported the recent ballot proposition defining marriage as being between a man and a woman.

MYTH #4: Texas sodomy laws punish people for who they are, not what they do, because gays are born that way.

Let us assume that homosexuality is partly genetic. If you go to any state with sodomy laws, and declare publicly that your orientation is homosexual, you will not be arrested. But if the state learns that you dropped your pants and "did it" with someone of the same gender, that constitutes a sex act in violation of the sodomy laws. You are not being punished for your self-declared orientation. You are being punished for specific sex acts. Get it?

Another example. My family has a long history of alcoholism, and I believe that alcoholism is genetic and runs in families. But, although I am genetically inclined toward alcoholism, I do not fear being arrested on a DUI, simply because of my Irish alcoholic genes. In order to be arrested, I actually have to go to a pub, fill my gut with alcohol, and then drive recklessly on the freeway. But if I can keep my "alcohol genes" under control, then so can a person with a "gay" orientation.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Pennsylvania; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: catholic; children; familyvalues
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To: Buckeye Bomber
[....Should the state be allowed to ban masturbation?....]

No. I do not believe that the state should ban masturbation. Masturbation does not violate community standards of decency, unless it is done in public.

But I remember a case in Alabama, where some conservative Republican legislators banned sex toys: http://www.s-t.com/daily/02-99/02-18-99/e03wn149.htm
61 posted on 04/23/2003 6:42:18 PM PDT by AveMaria
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To: AveMaria
Specifically see post 57 for my biggest questions.
62 posted on 04/23/2003 6:42:37 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: AveMaria
But it's immoral! Seed-spilling! That's horrible! Jocelyn Elders suggested it be taught to students as an alternative to sex and the press ate her alove and called for her head!

Community standards of decency. Screw the community and their standards. Leave me alone unless you have a good reason not to do so.
63 posted on 04/23/2003 6:44:50 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: Buckeye Bomber
If anal sex is legal for heterosexuals, why is it illegal for homosexuals?

Because a great many Americans believe that homosexual relationships should be discouraged, because they go against traditional family values, and are not seen as having any social value. But on the other hand, society has a vested interest in promoting marriage.

Almost all parents would like their children to be heterosexually married, not in homosexual relationships.
64 posted on 04/23/2003 6:50:14 PM PDT by AveMaria
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To: AveMaria
Alright, should they have been able to ban sex toys? This case with the Texas sodomy law seems to be dealing with a similar idea.

Although, the biggest problem I see now is that the Texas law says HOMOSEXUALS CAN'T DO THINGS THAT HETEROSEXUALS CAN! Do you understand the words I am saying?
65 posted on 04/23/2003 6:52:35 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: AveMaria
Almost all parents would like their children to be heterosexually married, not in homosexual relationships.

Almost all parents would like their children to marry someone in the same racial and religious groups as themselves- should interracial and interfaith marriages be banned?

66 posted on 04/23/2003 6:52:36 PM PDT by LWalk18
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To: Buckeye Bomber
Should the states be allowed to ban masturbation? I asked this elsewhere, but I wanted to make sure you see the question.

The question isn't whether or not the states should be "allowed" to do that, it is whether or not such power is reserved to them under the Constitution. I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says that the right of the people to masturbate is inviolate or that the right to masturbate is an inalienable right or that the power of the States to ban masturbation is curtailed. Perhaps that was one of the grievances against King George, oppressive restrictions on the right to be a wanker; but Jefferson and Adams didn't mention it in the Declaration of Independence. Maybe Madison was too embarrassed to include notes about the right to masturbate in his notes of the Constitutional Convention. Or maybe it was just a backroom deal when the post-Civil War debates on the 14th Amendment were going on. You know, well, we can knock out those laws against masturbation at the same time we try to prevent state laws from oppressing the newly-freed slaves. Great constitutional moments.

I suspect that if you went to your local mall, seated yourself in a stall and engaged in such conduct, you might find yourself being prosecuted. I would say, however, that under the 4th Amendment the States have no power to search your home without probable cause to see if you are a wanker. On the other hand, seeing this post of yours might give them probable cause to suspect that you are indeed a wanker.

Do you really believe you could find any state legislature that would want to even consider such a law? Even if you did, don't you think the voters might install some new legislators at the next election and encourage them to spend their time on more pressing matters? That's the way our system of government should work.

Nice try, though.

67 posted on 04/23/2003 6:54:10 PM PDT by Gee Wally
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To: AveMaria
I think this clearly violates equal protection however. How can you disagree with that? Privacy may not be a set-in-stone amendment, but equal protection is.
68 posted on 04/23/2003 6:54:36 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: Buckeye Bomber
[....Jocelyn Elders suggested it be taught to students as an alternative to sex and the press ate her alove and called for her head!....]

She should not have been promoting such things to underage school children. But if she had said that to adults attending a sex-ed seminar....well....she might have survived.
69 posted on 04/23/2003 6:55:56 PM PDT by AveMaria
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To: AveMaria
Because a great many Americans believe that homosexual relationships should be discouraged, because they go against traditional family values, and are not seen as having any social value. But on the other hand, society has a vested interest in promoting marriage.

Almost all parents would like their children to be heterosexually married, not in homosexual relationships.

Should fornication--that is, sexual relations between two unmarried people-- be banned as well, given your arguments above?

70 posted on 04/23/2003 6:57:22 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Gee Wally
Alright, so here is the ordering of priorities in your mind as I see it:

Homosexual intercourse > other more pressing matters > masturbation.

Am I right?

And I suppose the government would now have probable cause to search my premises for proof that I am a masturbator. However, I would argue, of course, that they ought to have neither that power or the power to search the homes of suspected homosexuals for proof that they are having anal sex.
71 posted on 04/23/2003 6:57:27 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: AveMaria
The only criticism I have of Sen. Santorum is that he is too milktoast on this issue. We've lost the battle for morals if we can't stand up and call sodomy a disgusting abominable sin. To accept and embrace it is to call for God's wrath upon our nation. It's Adam and Eve, Buckaroo, not Adam and Steve!
72 posted on 04/23/2003 6:58:15 PM PDT by 2nd Amendment
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To: Buckeye Bomber
Re: Should the government be allowed to regulate masturbation? Because it involves pretty much the same rights here.

If my left hand doesn't consent, is it abuse ?
lol

73 posted on 04/23/2003 6:58:28 PM PDT by ChadGore (Freedom is as natural as a drawn breath.)
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To: Gee Wally
Do you really believe you could find any state legislature that would want to even consider such a law?

I would bet you three cases of beer that you couldn't find any state legislature today which would want to even consider a law against sodomy, heterosexual or homosexual.

74 posted on 04/23/2003 6:59:41 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: 2nd Amendment
You can call it a sin all you you want. I agree with you. Any sex that is not between a man and woman who love each other and are open to the possibility of reproduction is sinful. I'm just saying the government shouldn't be in the busininess of trying to put morals onto people's hearts.
75 posted on 04/23/2003 7:01:40 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: 2nd Amendment
We've lost the battle for morals if we can't stand up and call sodomy a disgusting abominable sin.

Muslim Americans and Orthodox Jews would say that eating pork is a disgusting abominable sin.

Should we ban pork because some people find the eating of it sinful?

76 posted on 04/23/2003 7:02:25 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
I asked the pork question earlier. No one responded. It's called cognitive dissonance. Just ignore things that seem to disprove your thoughts. It makes life a lot easier. :-)
77 posted on 04/23/2003 7:03:20 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: LWalk18
Yes, but that is the 14th Amendment which specifically prohibits discrimination based on race. It doesn't mention sexual orientation. Personally, I think the laws are dumb, but the Supreme Court can't simply announce that it is adding a constitutional right that does not exist. If they can do that, then they can do anything, and the Constitution means nothing.
78 posted on 04/23/2003 7:06:12 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant
"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Are you crazy?
79 posted on 04/23/2003 7:07:54 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: Brilliant
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

I repeat

nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
80 posted on 04/23/2003 7:10:16 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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