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Why Amnesty for Illegals is Bad Idea
fairus.org ^ | 2003 | www.fairus.org

Posted on 06/16/2003 3:50:27 AM PDT by GatekeeperBookman

In 1986, Congress passed the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) giving amnesty — legal forgiveness — to all illegal aliens who had successfully evaded justice for four years or more or were illegally working in agriculture. As a result, 2.8 million illegal aliens were admitted as legal immigrants to the United States. In addition, they have so far brought in an additional 142,000 dependents. An Immigration and Naturalization Service study found that after ten years in the United States, the average amnestied illegal alien had only a seventh grade education and an annual salary of less than $9,000 a year.

Unlike immigrants with a sponsor who guarantees they will not become a burden on the public, when Congress enacts an amnesty, it makes the American public financially responsible for those amnestied.

The cost of amnesties to the American taxpayer is staggering.

An amnesty sends the message that it is okay to break the law.

Amnesty threatens homeland security.

(Excerpt) Read more at fairus.org ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections; Unclassified; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: amnesty; homelandsecurity; illegalimmigration; immigration; irca
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1 posted on 06/16/2003 3:50:27 AM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: GatekeeperBookman
I am opposed to amnesty on principle. The arguments of national security and public health concerns take on an even greater significance in the age of 9-11 and SARS. If we grant a blanket amnesty we have no way of knowing for certain who is a terrorist, a criminal, or the carrier of a lethal disease. Besides that its unfair to legal immigrants who wait years to get their citizenship applications processed to have people who've flouted our nation's immigration laws get priority consideration. We're a nation based upon the rule of law. Its time not for another amnesty but rather for tough enforcement of our immigration laws and border security regulations. Our country's security and economic prosperity demands no less in these imperiled times.
2 posted on 06/16/2003 4:26:23 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: GatekeeperBookman
Cornyn set to outline guest worker program
4 posted on 06/16/2003 4:37:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Kuleana
more than enough DemocRATS.

Not according to the RATS, that's why they're importing them from south of the borfer.

5 posted on 06/16/2003 4:41:49 AM PDT by varon
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To: GatekeeperBookman
Amnisty is a stupid idea given that it makes a joke of our laws. Those that break our laws to enter the country for whatever reason must not be given a pass.

Although, I fully admit that our immigration policy is a sad joke. For one thing there are jobs that Americans won't do, or rather not enough of our citizens will do to meet the demand. At the same time many in Mexico would love to do those jobs, for wages that citizens won't work for. The solution in the long run is to expand our work visa program to meet the demand.

As for the illegals who are here now, a form of amnisty should be granted; they have 2 months to get out of the country and apply to come in legally! After the 2 months are up, illegals would be rounded up, finger printed, then sent back. Prints would be checked when applying for a visa and if someone had been caught after the 2 month amnisty they would never be allowed to come back, even as a tourist. Employers who are found to hire illegals would be jailed.

This would solve the labor problem for certain industries, and drastically reduce the number of illegals. It would also help INS know who is where.

MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/
6 posted on 06/16/2003 5:26:36 AM PDT by logic101.net (Support OUR Troops; Not Saddam's!)
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To: Kuleana
No papers? you go home NOW.
7 posted on 06/16/2003 5:35:35 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: GatekeeperBookman
I blame the ball-less republicans(Except TANCREDO) and the spineless democrats equally on this one.
8 posted on 06/16/2003 6:33:44 AM PDT by gitmogrunt (Republicans and Democrats love to bend over the taxpayers for illegall immigrants.)
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To: gitmogrunt
Tancredo for President!
9 posted on 06/16/2003 6:36:46 AM PDT by citizen (Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!)
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To: madfly; JackelopeBreeder
fyi
10 posted on 06/16/2003 7:03:29 AM PDT by Free the USA (Stooge for the Rich)
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To: citizen
I second the motion on Tancredo.
11 posted on 06/16/2003 7:07:16 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: moehoward; citizen
It was announced today that Bush doesn't believe he'll face a serious challenge in the Republican Primary and he's looking for our support to gather in a $20 million dollar war chest in support of his bid for re-election.

I hope someone like Tom Tancredo surprises him.

I just told Bush's fund-raisers to tell Jorge to go ask his illegal alien constituency for a donation.

12 posted on 06/16/2003 8:31:12 AM PDT by 4Freedom (America is no longer the *Land of Opportunity*, it*s the *Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists*!!!)
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To: 4Freedom
Bush may find the border issue is increasingly important to many people and not just those in the border states.

I intend to vote for Tom Tancredo as a write-in candidate in the '04 GA primary and the national election.

13 posted on 06/16/2003 9:27:48 AM PDT by citizen (Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!)
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To: Kuleana
Here's a few new ones, currently living next to the beach on the central coast of California:

More Illegals for California, Oh Joy

A heart rending story of an illegal crossing of the United States border gone wrong, resulting in 8 new welfare cases (Dad, an illiterate Mixtec Indian, and his Seven children), and 8 future welfare voters to vote to take away our property and our income.

Oh yeah, let's have an amnesty right now. Sure.

14 posted on 06/16/2003 10:15:06 AM PDT by Regulator (When Hell Freezes Over)
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To: GatekeeperBookman
Why should amnesty be limited to only one class of criminals? Why not issue amnesty to American criminals, as well? We would save a fortune in court and prison costs. Open the prisons and set everyone free...

Do I really need to set sarcasm off??

OK, fine.

</sarcasm>

15 posted on 06/16/2003 11:17:56 AM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: GatekeeperBookman
BTTT
16 posted on 06/16/2003 4:30:12 PM PDT by 4.1O dana super trac pak
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To: logic101.net
>>For one thing there are jobs that Americans won't do, or rather not enough of our citizens will do to meet the demand.<<

The notion that Mexicans do jobs we won't is a myth, told by the immigration lawyers, meat industry, religious 'charities,' and other pro-illegal immigration advocates who benefit from the influx and who have very powerful lobbies.

Mexicans have replaced Americans in many work sectors that once provided Americans with a living wage (for life in America, not life in Mexico). For example, the meat industry once provided well-paying jobs for Americans. Now, 60% of the industry is reported to be illegal immigrant workers, and the remainder poor, uneducated legal immigrants.

In fact, some of the big meat companies travel to Mexico to recruit illegal labor, and then bring them back here and dump them off at a local shelter.

These Mexicans will work under obscenely dangerous conditions (no sane American would do this) without complaint. Because of the stress and danger, employee turnover rate is up to 400% during the course of a year in these mega -meat factories(The meat industry likes this).

When they are injured or when they leave that job, Americans pay for their medical care. They don't earn enough to feed the families who follow them, so American taxpayers foot the bill for food stamps and health care, language classes, education and so on for the family.

Not only that, the rapid pace of the butchering assembly line makes it easy to accidentally cut the intestines of the animal and spill the gut contents and any infectious microbes therein into the meat. So listeria, E.coli057 and other killer microbes end up being spread all over the country. I would never eat the meat in this country from anywhere but local farmers I know well. Nor would most people I know.

Yet, if you think about the enormous costs the meat industry is foisting onto the back of the taxpayers, including the spread of a newly resistant strains of tuberculosis, as well as the crime these people bring to small American communities, I suspect one is paying a hell of a lot more for one pound of hamburg than they did when the Americans filled the jobs.

I think this is the same for other jobs where illegals have displaced Americans. We end up subsidizing the cheap labor.


17 posted on 06/16/2003 5:03:07 PM PDT by Risa
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To: Risa
The notion that Mexicans do jobs we won't is a myth, told by the immigration lawyers, meat industry, religious 'charities,' and other pro-illegal immigration advocates who benefit from the influx and who have very powerful lobbies.

The biggest reason Americans won't do those jobs is that the employers have to compete with the welfare office. Hard to convince someone they should do an unpleasant job for $7/hour if they can receive almost as much dough staying at home watching television.

According to my boss, the medians on Korean highways are mowed by people using hand scythes. Although the use of hand scythes is largely "make work", it employs people rather than having them idle.

Too bad the government has decided idleness is better than demeaning labor.

18 posted on 06/16/2003 5:09:57 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: GatekeeperBookman
It's time for the Pubies, including Dubya, to grow some cojones on this issue. Tancredo can give them lessons. IMHO, this is the most critical problem our country faces. The long-term implications are horrendous.

It just blows me away that Dubya seemingly has turned his back on this issue.
CLOSE THE BORDERS NOW!!

19 posted on 06/16/2003 5:16:58 PM PDT by upchuck (Contribute to "Republicans for Al Sharpton for President in 2004." Dial 1-800-SLAPTHADONKEY :)
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To: Kuleana
We have enough gardeners, maids, lettuce pickers, gang members and more than enough DemocRATS

Are you sure you couldn't use a few hundred thousand more? Well if the FEDERAL government has their way, that is exacly what they are going to send you.

20 posted on 06/16/2003 5:22:39 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (Recall Gray Davis, position his smoking chair over a trap door, a memo for the next governor.)
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To: Kuleana
We have enough gardeners, maids, lettuce pickers, gang members and more than enough DemocRATS

Are you sure you couldn't use a few hundred thousand more? Well if the FEDERAL government has their way, that is exacly what they are going to send you.

21 posted on 06/16/2003 5:22:45 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (Recall Gray Davis, position his smoking chair over a trap door, a memo for the next governor.)
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To: logic101.net
Just the other day the Dallas Morning News ran an article about the high school and college students who can’t find work because adults are taking jobs that nobody but kids wanted when unemployment was low. Now unemployment is at a 9 year high and American families are hurting. The unemployed are taking anything they can find to put food on the table. The myth about Americans not being willing to work is being blown out of the water by the jobless recovery.

The article failed to mention that the criminal aliens are also taking the jobs that our citizens could be working at if the criminals were rounded up and jailed or sent home.

These criminals are costing us huge amounts of dollars both directly and indirectly. We need a minefield from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific and helicopter gunships patrolling the minefield incase anyone makes it through.

Your point about jailing the criminals who hire the criminal aliens is good. We should also take their business or if the work is being done on their home we should take it.

Under the RICO law the government can take their property and they have to prove they are innocent to get it back. The RICO law is used against Christians trying to save babies from being slaughtered. It should be put to productive use defending our borders from these criminal invaders and the fifth columnists who hire and harbor them.

22 posted on 06/16/2003 5:31:57 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: logic101.net
Just the other day the Dallas Morning News ran an article about the high school and college students who can’t find work because adults are taking jobs that nobody but kids wanted when unemployment was low. Now unemployment is at a 9 year high and American families are hurting. The unemployed are taking anything they can find to put food on the table. The myth about Americans not being willing to work is being blown out of the water by the jobless recovery.

The article failed to mention that the criminal aliens are also taking the jobs that our citizens could be working at if the criminals were rounded up and jailed or sent home.

These criminals are costing us huge amounts of dollars both directly and indirectly. We need a minefield from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific and helicopter gunships patrolling the minefield incase anyone makes it through.

Your point about jailing the criminals who hire the criminal aliens is good. We should also take their business or if the work is being done on their home we should take it.

Under the RICO law the government can take their property and they have to prove they are innocent to get it back. The RICO law is used against Christians trying to save babies from being slaughtered. It should be put to productive use defending our borders from these criminal invaders and the fifth columnists who hire and harbor them.

23 posted on 06/16/2003 5:32:11 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: supercat
>>The biggest reason Americans won't do those jobs is that the employers have to compete with the welfare office.<<

You make an excellent point, and the make-work idea is intriguing, too, one that I think would be very useful in our own country. Here in Portland, Maine, we have far too many male Somalis standing around in immovable hordes on the city streets in the summertime. (They will part, however, and let you pass, if you have even the tiniest dog on leash.) I am sure many Americans would be better off kept busy in this way, too.
24 posted on 06/16/2003 5:33:36 PM PDT by Risa
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To: GatekeeperBookman; citizen; goldstategop; Kuleana; upchuck; varon; logic101.net; gitmogrunt; ...
Has anyone seen this? -->


Joseph Sandowski with the Sachem Quality of Life organization in Long Island has
filed a lawsuit against President Bush for encouraging the immigration flood, see:

http://lettersforcourt.blogspot.com/

25 posted on 06/16/2003 7:42:40 PM PDT by Risa
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To: GatekeeperBookman; citizen; goldstategop; Kuleana; upchuck; varon; logic101.net; gitmogrunt; ...
Has anyone seen this? -->


Joseph Sandowski with the Sachem Quality of Life organization in Long Island has
filed a lawsuit against President Bush for encouraging the immigration flood, see:

http://lettersforcourt.blogspot.com/

26 posted on 06/16/2003 7:42:40 PM PDT by Risa
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To: Risa
Mr. Sadowski could sure use a spell check ... LOL!!
27 posted on 06/16/2003 9:03:07 PM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: GatekeeperBookman
They are not illegals. The fresh meat for the Libral voting machines. The libs want them here and kept just alive enough to vote.
28 posted on 06/16/2003 9:28:12 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon
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To: varon
>> more than enough DemocRATS. Not according to the RATS, that's why they're importing them from south of the border. <<

But haven't you heard? Illegal aliens who break our laws are NATURAL hard-working "social conservatives" who support pro-life and pro-family ideals in droves. Why, just look at the kind of people they elect to "represent" them:


29 posted on 06/16/2003 10:25:15 PM PDT by BillyBoy (George Ryan deserves a long term...without parole.)
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To: GatekeeperBookman
Why Amnesty for Illegals is Bad Terrible Idea
30 posted on 06/16/2003 11:11:25 PM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: Risa
I applaud your finding & posting this. Maybe it will do some good.
31 posted on 06/20/2003 7:06:15 PM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
John cornyn is a smooth character-his act is supurb. I wish he would move to hollywood, and ditto the disgusting, vacuous, dangerously stupid Kay Bailey. She doubled up with Hitlary for a 40+ million dollar bill to fund a nationwide '211' phone service-to assist the 'poor' in finding their free services!
32 posted on 06/20/2003 7:09:48 PM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: SUSSA
Under the RICO law the government can take their property and they have to prove they are innocent to get it back. The RICO law is used against Christians trying to save babies from being slaughtered. It should be put to productive use defending our borders from these criminal invaders and the fifth columnists who hire and harbor them.


BINGO! It's a RICO thing. The Mexican Embassy & Counsulates, the formerly Catholic Church, etc. etc.
33 posted on 06/20/2003 7:13:16 PM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: GatekeeperBookman
ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Those from Muslim countries, or individuals of Islamic faith from any country, shall be denied immigration privileges to the US.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every 6 months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies who fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire illegal workers, shall be subject to penalty. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible for unemployment claims.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) GWV workers shall be prohibited for voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) (NEW) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) (NEW) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) (NEW) Foreign Students (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private or public institution (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the FS attends school full-time. Foreign students shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended and the originating country shall indemnify the students for any and all loss caused by that individual while he/she is on U.S. Soil.

34 posted on 06/20/2003 7:15:55 PM PDT by Imagine
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To: Imagine
Your 16 points are very good.

17. Make any potential immigrant post a bond-a very large bond, sliding scale, inverse to their education-job status-personal wealth. We have enough folks who need to work their way up. We could simple let them that already 'can' come here, & 'do'.
35 posted on 06/20/2003 7:22:52 PM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: GatekeeperBookman
>>I applaud your finding & posting this. Maybe it will do some good. <<

Thank you, Gatekeeperbookman. I am skeptical it will do any good, because our activist high courts, since the late 1960s and 1970s, have interpreted our constitution to meet the needs of immigration expansionists and illegal aliens, despite overwhelming public opposition. But Joseph Sandowski is surely an admirable, brave soul to take on the Bush Administration.

It will be interesting to see how the Judge will act and on what basis.

regards,
risa



.
36 posted on 06/21/2003 5:48:44 PM PDT by Risa
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To: Imagine; Kuleana; varon; logic101.net; gitmogrunt; citizen; moehoward; 4Freedom; Regulator; ...
>>ACTION PLAN: Border Violators <<

I like your Border Violation plan, imagine. But I think we must face the truth: our President wants open borders, and he does not care what you or I think. Without recognizing this, and understanding why, we will never be motivated to form the vigorous, well-organized, political movement needed to change the immigration status quo.

The Bush administration has embraced an economic plan which requires free movement of capital, goods, and LABOR across world borders. What the current and previous administration sold to us as the inevitable, unstoppable force of 'globalization,' the harsh reality of which we must accept, is really an extreme form of free-trade theory, called 'libertarian economics.' And at the very same time they swore it was all inevitable, they were crafting the laws and policies to make it happen.

Think about it, in the libertarian world-market of George Bush, we cannot compete with China, India or Mexico without a huge reserve of cheap labor--skilled and unskilled. Permitting the continuous flow of illegal-aliens, providing them with amnesty, and allowing the entry os skilled H1-bs, despite so many unemployed Americans, are necessary for libertarian economics to work.

In the libertarian world market, American majority opinion does not matter. Free-market anarchy lets the chips, i.e. the American people and their communities, fall where they may. Government interference is anathema. That's why all our services will eventually be privatized, which isn't a bad idea, I suppose, if Americans were the privatizers, but just wait until some huge, French conglomerate takes over your potable water supply and waste treatment systems, as they clamor to do now, and as they did in Australia and British Columbia with drastic results (people standing knee-deep in sewage in their basements, coliform bacteria in the water).

I am not suggesting a conspiracy to destroy America on the part of government. Libertarian economic theory is cast in terms of moral responsibility, it's like a fundamentalist religion, and I imagine George Bush believes he's doing the right thing. ( I say 'fundamentalist religion' because they invoke notions of the morality of unfettered competition, and the evil of the nation-state, and government interference. Also, anyone who questions the rationality of such a radical economic policy, stressing the unpleasant consequences for many Americans, is denounced as anti-capitalist, anti-business, a communist or a socialist.) Just for the record, I am a Republican, pro-business, pro-labor and pro-capitalism.

So we, and I think the majority of Americans, have been depoliticized along with a majority of mericans. Yet we are responsible (at least I am), for not attending to government, for not making the effort to understand what was going on, and for not making our voices heard, long ago, when all of this began. I know I always assumed our governing classes were acting in the best interests of business AND the people, since the well-being of both are neccessary. Libertarian economics doesn't give a damn about borders, American workers,
American communities or society. It's all for business, and not the smaller businesses--only the mega-conglomerates benefit and possibly those who support them.

So whether we support a Bush replacement in 2004, as I do, or an independent party (scary, because Dems could win, and then we'll get libertarianism AND socialism) or work to make our voices heard, we first need to organize all the disparate voices out there. We need to emulate the political activity of the powerful coalition of business, political entrepreneurs, ethnic groups and lawyers who have been so successful at maintaing and expanding immigration policy.

What we don't have in funding, we do have in numbers.

risa
37 posted on 06/21/2003 9:39:35 PM PDT by Risa
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To: citizen
I intend to vote for Tom Tancredo as a write-in candidate in the '04 GA primary and the national election.

Didn't you learn anything in '92?

38 posted on 06/21/2003 9:49:08 PM PDT by Consort
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To: Risa
So whether we support a Bush replacement in 2004, as I do, or an independent party (scary, because Dems could win, and then we'll get libertarianism AND socialism) or work to make our voices heard, we first need to organize all the disparate voices out there.

Disparate voices....geez. Was your voice heard in '92 when you threw out Bush? Hell no. All you did was enable the Clintons. Thanks a lot.

39 posted on 06/21/2003 9:53:41 PM PDT by Consort
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To: GatekeeperBookman
If Bush thinks that Amnesty will get him Mexican votes, he had better think twice about that. He WILL lose Americans votes, mine included.

This issue, alone, could cost the Republicans any control of anything they have, federal or state.
40 posted on 06/21/2003 9:57:46 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (If the only way an American can get elected is through Mexican votes, we have a war to be waged.)
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To: Consort
Didn't you learn anything in '92?

What did the GOP learn from '92?

41 posted on 06/21/2003 11:04:05 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Consort
>>Was your voice heard in '92 when you threw out Bush.Hell no. All you did was enable the Clintons. Thanks a lot. <<

Where did you get such an idea?

I didn't throw out Bush in 1992. I've voted strictly Republican all my life.


42 posted on 06/21/2003 11:28:51 PM PDT by Risa
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To: PatrioticAmerican
I wonder at the issue-have the Repub's any valid numbers on what their dark affinity for cheap labor will do to them ( & us)??

I get the uneasy fealing they have no idea what they have done.

Does Marine Inspector still post & have full freedom of the net??
Might he run Tancredo's campaign?? A military mind would be most helpful.
43 posted on 06/22/2003 6:11:47 AM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: Risa
I should almsot prefer your 'free market anarchy'-if it were true. I think instead it is free market corruption.
44 posted on 06/22/2003 6:13:53 AM PDT by GatekeeperBookman
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To: GatekeeperBookman
I say lets send them all back in pine boxes! Maybe it is time to defend our border with lethal force & that is both of them too!
I am tired of the bleeding hearts letting our country go to hell in a hand basket, just for the third world. We built this country, and I'll be darned if I'll let this happen!!!
45 posted on 06/22/2003 6:25:42 AM PDT by Knightsofswing (sic semper tranyis [death to tryants!])
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
What did the GOP learn from '92?

'92 was a voter problem, not a party problem. Misguided voters got mad at one Republican and replaced him with the Clintons and the Clintons restocked key bureaucratis positions and the courts with Liberals/Socialists. We still don't know the full extent of the damage.

46 posted on 06/22/2003 7:26:21 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Risa
Then what does "So whether we support a Bush replacement in 2004, as I do, or an independent party..." mean?
47 posted on 06/22/2003 7:28:59 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Consort
"'92 was a voter problem, not a party problem."

One of the main issues of '92 was NAFTA. Bush campaigned for NAFTA saying that it would cure whatever ailed the American economy at that time. He also said that NAFTA would stop illegal immigration. Clinton basicallly dodged the issue as it was the Democrats in Congress that wouldn't pass NAFTA. Perot told the truth about NAFTA.

I voted for Bush, but count me as a "misguided voter".

Was it the voters fault that they were lied to or the parties fault for lying that lost the election?
48 posted on 06/22/2003 8:02:43 AM PDT by texastoo
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To: texastoo
Was it the voters fault that they were lied to or the parties fault for lying that lost the election?

The voters, whether conservative, liberal, and otherwise, are responsible for the Clintons.

49 posted on 06/22/2003 9:07:57 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Consort
Are you saying that it was the voters fault that they were lied to?
50 posted on 06/22/2003 9:13:29 AM PDT by texastoo
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