The Trailer for Mel Gibson's The Passion Seen!

Comingsoon.net ^ | 6/24/03 | Rosary Guy

[what's up]

"Jews and Gentiles alike are ALL under sin...There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. ALL have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Rom 3:10-13

Paul was here emphasizing that Christ alone was righteous because the Romans were falling back into works, thinking they could be saved thru them.

People always want to think perfection can be found in something other than Christ. For many Catholics, they seek perfection in Jesus. According to the Bible, this is folly.

Must leave now. I suggest you really get to know your New Testament better. You will not find Mary spoken of as perfect there. (The example of Mary exalting God as you indicate in no way signifies perfection.)

[votelife]

this sounds great!

[Notwithstanding]

you are forgetting that there exceptions to the passages you quote

[Notwithstanding]

no - it was her foreknowledge of the salvation obtained by her Savior that I was pointing to - this is proof that conventional chronology did not apply to Mary as it does to you or me

do you think God could not apply his Salvation to a creature whenever He wanted to?

[RobRoy]

>>Please point to where it says that Mary sinned? In fact, we have in the bible no record of her sinning.<<

That statement confuses me. Where does it say she ate or pissed? Yet I will assume those things happened.

You may mean well, but what you suggest is simply not in the Bible and, therefore, conjecture. It also goes against the personality lf the God with whome I have a personal relationship - the God of the Bible.

[BibChr]

More to the point, Mary called God her "Savior" (Luke 1:47). Now, on the most natural reading... what kind of person needs a Savior?

This is a troublesome note. I thought Gibson was filming what is in the Bible, not contradicting it.

Dan

[Slyfox]

it would stand to reason that Mary has to be sinful, otherwise the true nature of Jesus the Christ cannot be very man and very God.

Being born as a daughter of Adam, Mary deserved to be born with Original sin. However, she was preserved from sin because Our Lord needed to be born of a pure vessel. And so, because Our Lord saved her from being conceived without sin, she sang the praise of God as her personal Savior in her Magnificat, which is in the Bible.

[TexConfederate1861]

From the "Gospel of Thomas" an Apocrophal book which tells of the birth of Mary, and her upbringing.

Accepted as "Holy Tradition" by the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Faiths.....

Remember...there was no Canon of Scripture until 327 A.D.

[Young Tom Morris]

More Conjecture:

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without oringinal sin; so that in the very infusion of her she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin."

(Sermon," On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," Martin Luther, 1527)

http://www.northforest.com/catholic/h001d400.html#provefrombible

[MHGinTN]

I'm gonna stay out of an argument over this topic of Mary, but I'll note you this, God 'sees' all of time as a panorama, so that the Cross applies as well to those who came before it as those as far into the future after it as God sees fit. How God applies the redemption of the Cross to those that came before it is in His purview, but He has given us clues throughout the OT and NT.

[CyberAnt]

Sorry ... Mary was not created without original sin. Eve was - because she and Adam had not committed the original sin yet.

But ... Mary was just a human being who loved and trusted GOD! She was a vessel - she was willing to give birth to GOD's child, Jesus. But ... Jesus was not pure because of Mary - HE was pure because of GOD! The child carries the blood of the father, not the mother.

Mary was in the upper room with the disciples on the day of Pentecost - I believe the scripture specifically says, "and they were ALL filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke with other tontues".

[CyberAnt]

"crushing the serpent's head"

GOD was prophesying about the birth of Jesus - Jesus was going to destroy the sin which the serpent brought into the world - that's "crushing the serpent's head".

[ex-snook]

"However, she was preserved from sin because Our Lord needed to be born of a pure vessel."

Amen. If Jesus was God his mother had to be without sin - perfection. Also goes with the virgin birth, throw in the Assumption too. Hail Mary Full of Grace ... Blessed art thou among women. People have to deal with it. Mary was a lot more than a Boston Bishop or made for TV Evangelist.

[cyncooper]

This is a troublesome note. I thought Gibson was filming what is in the Bible, not contradicting it.

Gibson is a Catholic.

I would like to read about the movie without the Catholic bashing, thank you very much.

[Future Snake Eater]

They showed the end of a nail being placed in Jesus' palm, pushed down, and then the hammer about to strike

The nails were not driven into His palms, they were driven into His wrists. The Romans were very experienced at this form of torture, and they knew that if you nailed the palms, the flesh would just tear off, and the victim would simply fall to the ground.

[CyberAnt]

Sorry again ... but you can't lay that off on women. Adam was standing right there with her.

God had given Adam CHARGE over the garden - why didn't Adam stop Eve ...?? Or at least why didn't he take Eve to God and explain what had happened and ask GOD for mercy. Adam didn't - Adam took the apple she handed to him - HE MADE A CHOICE!! He could have thrown it down ...??

And ... if you read that part of the verse again, you'll see that NOTHING HAPPENED WHEN EVE ATE THE APPLE - however, when Adam ATE THE APPLE - what happened ...?? They became aware they were naked. Why - because husband and wife are ONE - but nothing happened until ADAM bit the apple. There is no way this is a woman did it to man - no way Jose!!! A husband is responsible for his wife's actions - Adam clearly was not.

Then ... as soon as GOD found them - what did Adam do - he pointed his finger at Eve and said to GOD, "it was the woman YOU gave me." Thereby Adam blamed GOD for the whole thing.

[rwfromkansas]

The church is the woman, though Mary could be symbolic there also. I would have to think about it some more.

BTW, sorry, Mary was as sinful as you or I.

[rwfromkansas]

no, Mary was not a co-mediatrix either.

[cyncooper]

BTW, sorry, Mary was as sinful as you or I.

BTW, sorry, but the Catholic Church believes otherwise.

[rwfromkansas]

She was not the first to declare the Gospel. Folks in the OT were saved by grace just like we are.