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U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident
Haaretz ^ | 9/7/2003 | Nathan Guttman

Posted on 07/08/2003 4:33:17 PM PDT by Courier

U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident

By Nathan Guttman, Haaretz Correspondent

WASHINGTON - New documents released this week by America's National Security Agency support Israel's version of a long-festering controversy between the two countries: Israel's sinking of an American spy ship, the USS Liberty, off the coast of Gaza during the 1967 Six-Day War.

Israel has always said it had no idea the ship was American, but conspiracy theorists and anti-Israel propagandists still claim Israel sank the ship in the full knowledge that it was American.

The documents, originally defined as top secret, were made public by Florida Judge Jay Cristol, who

has been investigating the Liberty incident for years and published a book on the subject last year. On Monday, the NSA gave him a transcript of conversations held by two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots who were hovering over the Liberty as it was sinking, and these tapes confirm Israel's claim that the sinking of the ship, which killed 34 American servicemen and wounded 171, was a tragic error.

After the Liberty was bombed by both the Israel Air Force and the Israel Navy, the two helicopter pilots were summoned from their base to assess the damage and evaluate the possibility of rescuing the surviving crew members. An American spy plane, which had been sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack, recorded their conversations, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 P.M. on June 8, the third day of the war.

The spy plane also recorded the orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at Hatzor Base, which instructed them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed - thus supporting Israel's claim that it had believed the ship was Egyptian when it ordered it attacked. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were told.

Nine minutes later, Hatzor informed the pilots that it was not an Egyptian warship, but an Egyptian cargo ship. Only at 3:07 were the pilots first informed that the ship might not have been Egyptian at all: Hatzor told them that if they found Arabic-speaking survivors, they should be taken to El-Arish, but if they found English-speaking survivors, they should be taken to Lod. "Clarify by the first man that you bring up, what nationality he is, and report to me immediately," the supervisor instructed, according to the transcript. "It's important to know."

Then, at 3:12, one of the pilots informed Hatzor that he saw an American flag flying over the wounded ship. He was asked to investigate and determine whether it was really an American ship.

This is not the first time such transcripts have been made public: Israel gave its own recordings of the pilots' conversations to the British television station Thames in 1987. But conspiracy theorists charged that Israel had doctored the tapes before handing them over to the station in order to hide the fact that it sank the Liberty intentionally. No such imputation can be made about these new transcripts, as they were never in Israeli hands.

Israel has always said it attacked the Liberty, which America sent to the region to gather intelligence on the progress of the war, because it believed it was an Egyptian supply ship ferrying supplies to the Egyptian troops that Israel was then fighting. When it discovered the error, it immediately informed the Americans, apologized and paid compensation to the victims' families.

The incident was investigated by inquiry commissions in both Israel and the United States, and both concluded that it had, indeed, been a tragic error. Nevertheless, the controversy never died. In 1979, one of the survivors, James Ennes, published a book accusing Israel of bombing the American ship deliberately. Ennes claimed an Israeli spy plane had hovered over the ship all morning and had surely identified it as American, since the American flag was clearly visible.

A later book, written by James Bamford, charged that Israel sank the ship in order to keep America from learning of its plans to attack Syria, and further claimed that the NSA had tapes of conversations among Israeli pilots that not only confirmed this, but also proved that the tapes released by Israel had been doctored.

Another claim that appears frequently on the dozens of Internet sites devoted to the affair is that Israel sank the ship to conceal a mass murder of Egyptian soldiers on the Sinai peninsula.

In its letter to Cristol, the NSA stressed that, contrary to the claims that often appear in such books and Web sites - that the agency has tapes from both the Liberty and from a nearby American submarine that confirm Israel's guilt - the only tapes that exist were those made by the spy plane and given to Cristol this week.

"It's the last piece of intelligence that remained classified, and every rational person that will read it will understand that there is no truth in these conspiracy theories against Israel," Cristol said Tuesday. But he added: "Those who hate Israel, who hate Jews, and those who believe in conspiracy will not be convinced by anything."

Cristol, a former U.S. navy pilot and legal officer, began investigating the Liberty incident 14 years ago. Since publishing his book, which vindicates Israel, he has received threats and been accused of being an Israeli agent. "I take this lightly, but I am saddened to learn that there is this kind of hate toward Israel," he said.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: accident; bloodlibel; israel; nsa; sixdaywar; ussliberty
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To: yonif
You don't need any newspapers

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/942986/posts
281 posted on 07/09/2003 11:50:26 AM PDT by Courier (Quick: Name one good thing about the Saudis.)
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To: yonif
We have people linking to Wahabbist-Wacko Sites (Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs) funded by the same folks in Saudi who gave Osama walking-around money.
282 posted on 07/09/2003 11:51:36 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Grampa Dave
When I see an amazing lie/miss quote like that at the beginning of a story, that is it. The switch in my mind goes off, my CNS reflexes shout out, "Danger! This Article is full of lies! Go elsewhere!"

The article is simply reporting on the NSA. Are you saying they are liars too?

283 posted on 07/09/2003 11:51:45 AM PDT by yonif
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To: yonif
No!
284 posted on 07/09/2003 11:52:44 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: wideminded
These tapes, coming after the multiple attacks, could just be the initial step in the cover-up. They do not prove that the Israeli units making the attack and their commanders did not know the ship was American.

Yes it does. It states they believed they were Egyptian, after all they were AT WAR with them and the US said there was no ship within 200 miles of Israel.

285 posted on 07/09/2003 11:53:13 AM PDT by yonif
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To: Teacher317
>But no anti-Semite will ever be convinced. They will just
>say that the US gov't is controlled by "The JOOZ" and that
>this is an ongoing part of some conspiracy

I worry that the loose and liberal use of the term 'anti-semetism' is diluting the meaning of the word and rendering it as impotent and effective as calling someone an 'idiot'.

It should only be used in bona-fide and obvious cases in which a person clearly indicates a pathological hatred for the entirety of the Jewish people for no other reason than the fact that they are Jewish.

Please. We are doing nobody a service when we misuse or overuse such a powerful word which is very meaningful to so many people.

286 posted on 07/09/2003 11:53:16 AM PDT by Stu Cohen
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To: Cicero
Well, I am pro-Israel, but I think it was attacked on purpose

Do you believe this was a planned attack? If you believe so, how long in advance did Israel plan it, in your opinion?

287 posted on 07/09/2003 11:59:45 AM PDT by yonif
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To: Stu Cohen
One of the best posts on the thread. Thank you for expressing so eloquently the point I was struggling to make.
288 posted on 07/09/2003 12:01:36 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (670: neighbor of the neighbor of The Beast.)
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To: Thumper1960; Poohbah
TP1960.. have you ever considered this:
If the initial mission of the Liberty were classified and STILL considered classified, the crew would end up in the basement suite at Levinworth for saying anything about it besides the official 'scripted' statment?
And yes, that is a logical conclusion.
Any soldier KNOWS that if they reveal classified info they get a free ticket to Levinworth's basement rooms. (A euphemism for PRISON, thank you.)

Having served in uniform myself, I don't blame them for keeping to teh official statement. I don't know any sane person who would risk a stay in prison, even if doing so exposed a monumental lie one way or the other.
289 posted on 07/09/2003 12:06:08 PM PDT by Darksheare (The Borg, the IRS of Star Trek.)
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To: doc
All this does is make me wonder why is there this effort to get the "Liberty" off the skyline (again)? If it's all bogus, then why bring it up again? My Grandpa always said,"Guilty dogs bark first and loudest." And he may not be a Harvard PhD, but he's seldom been wrong about human nature.
290 posted on 07/09/2003 12:06:59 PM PDT by Adrastus
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To: Dubya; SJackson; Yehuda; Nachum; adam_az; LarryM; American in Israel; ReligionofMassDestruction; ...
Get it through head. These people were murdered by the Jews. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/942571/posts?page=113#113

Saying "Jews" implies that you use their religion as a cause of the sailors deaths, instead of using the term "Israelis"

Would I say if I was Canadian on the US killing of Canadian troops "These people were murdered by the Christians"?

No.

Furthermore you use the term "murder" which is defined as premeditated killing, which this was not. Israel believes it was attacking an Egyptian ship and rushed to do so. Why? Because they used NAPALM in the attack! Why you think? Because those planes were RUSHED FROM THE GOLAN HEIGHTS (where they were combatting Syrian troops with the Napalm). If Israel really was planning on getting the Liberty, why didn't they load up with Iron Bombs that would sink the ship and make those sailors quiet? Can you answer that?

Israel believed it was a ship belonging to Egypt, Israel was at war with Egypt. It was a mistake undertaken in the fog of war. And if there is anyone to blame, it would be the US, for telling Israel it had no ship in that radius.

291 posted on 07/09/2003 12:10:41 PM PDT by yonif
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To: yonif
Did it look like this?

Bush (43) White House Letter

On June 6, 2002, a full page advertisement appeared on page 11 of the Washington Times. The ad contained an open letter to President George W. Bush, Commander in Chief, White House, Washington, D.C. from Phillip F. Tourney, President of the USS Liberty Veterans Association and requested "...that [the president] commission a presidential panel to finally investigate the attack and cover-up of the USS Liberty, and report the truth to the American people." In early October 2002, the letter was answered on behalf of the President as follows:

Dear Mr. Tourney:

Thank you for your letter to President George W. Bush concerning USS LIBERTY. I am answering on behalf of the President.

I can certainly understand your motivation in writing. The People of the United States will forever remain in debt to those crewmen of USS LIBERTY who sacrificed their lives in the service of their country. In reference to your letter, the main question posed to the investigative team was whether the attack by the Israeli armed forces on USS LIBERTY was deliberate. The Navy convened a court of inquiry immediately after the event to review this question and address other concerns. Much of the hearings and testimonies were classified as they dealt with the nature of the Navy's electronics and communications technology. Large portions of this report have subsequently been declassified.

Israel accepted responsibility for the attack and made a public apology for the incident. Additionally, as you already know, the Government of Israel paid reparations for the death and injuries suffered by your shipmates on LIBERTY and for the damage to the ship caused by this tragic and unfortunate incident.

The results of the investigations, and the conciliatory actions of the Government of Israel, were considered satisfactory to Administration and Defense officials. At this time, there is no precedent to reinvestigate this case and no plans have been made to do so. Please be assured that we have taken measures to prevent an incident of this tragic nature from occurring in the future.

Again, thank you for writing to the President.

Sincerely,
(sig)CHRISTOPHER J. ROUIN
Director, White House Liaison Office
Office of the Secretary of the Navy

292 posted on 07/09/2003 12:10:58 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: adam_az
Let me see. two wrongs here: An F-104 was not a carrier launched aircraft. An F-104 never carries nuclear weapons. Having flown and controlled them I know.
293 posted on 07/09/2003 12:11:22 PM PDT by Adrastus
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
What sort of agenda are you suggesting our survivors have?

An anti-Israel agenda which is the main reason much of their testimony is not identical.

294 posted on 07/09/2003 12:19:41 PM PDT by yonif
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To: SJackson
Yeah, I believe that's the one.
295 posted on 07/09/2003 12:21:34 PM PDT by yonif
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To: Adrastus
As another poster noted, this appears to be a typo and should have read F-4.

On the other hand, the F-104 was nuclear capable, here is a picture of the ordinance it was designed to carry:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm13.htm

"The Mk-28 "hydrogen" bomb, although first produced in 1958, is still an active item. It was designed to be carried by various fighter and bomber aircraft (F-100, F-104, F-105, B-47, B-52, and B-66)"

The important point again is that the planes were turned back not as part of a c-o-n-spiracy, but because they thought initially the attackers could be Soviets and they didn't want to start a war.
296 posted on 07/09/2003 12:22:24 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: Darksheare
If the initial mission of the Liberty were classified and STILL considered classified, the crew would end up in the basement suite at Levinworth for saying anything about it besides the official 'scripted' statment? And yes, that is a logical conclusion. Any soldier KNOWS that if they reveal classified info they get a free ticket to Levinworth's basement rooms. (A euphemism for PRISON, thank you.)

I'm familiar with Leavenworth.

However, a simple and truthful answer would be to say, "The details of our mission are classified. I can say nothing more."

Instead, they've been caught lying.

Having served in uniform myself, I don't blame them for keeping to teh official statement. I don't know any sane person who would risk a stay in prison, even if doing so exposed a monumental lie one way or the other.

The lie has already been exposed. The problem is that the crew continues to parrot the lie.

297 posted on 07/09/2003 12:26:00 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: adam_az
Interesting. In my experience the 104 didn't have any hard points to mount such a bomb on, the wings were only about 8 0r so feet from tip to root. It's a moot point any way. Even the Navy wouldn't be silly enough to try and take one off a carrier, let alone land one. Indeed it should have read F-4. However, even F-4s didn't routinely go nuc armed in an air defense role. That takes specific release from the NMCC.
298 posted on 07/09/2003 12:33:04 PM PDT by Adrastus
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To: wideawake
I am now satisfied that the matter is closed and that the defense of IDF action made by the government of Israel is full and accurate. But no anti-Semite will ever be convinced.

So are you saying that if someone does questions this particular official version is an anti-Semite?

(Interesting detail - the Soviet ship was the first to offer help. They said that they would stay just at the horizon and if the Liberty was going to go down, they would help.)

299 posted on 07/09/2003 12:34:18 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Poohbah
I posted it to you so that you knew what I fired at TP.
And I was aware that you knew to what I was referring.
Not everyone does.

Yes.
The lie is exposed.

But the bureaucrats would still go apesnot all over anyone who didn't still parrot the status quo.
That's the unfortunate side of things.
And while they could say, "I'm sorry, that's classified." that would lead to conclusions of their mission being very much the opposite of what they said.
And bureaucrats hate smart people.

I'm willing to bet there's bureaucrat types going bizzak over this right now.

300 posted on 07/09/2003 12:38:23 PM PDT by Darksheare (The Borg, the IRS of Star Trek.)
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