Troops quietly defy Scout policy on gays

Providence Journal ^ | July 20, 2003 | Jennifer Levitz

[Clint N. Suhks]

Virtually everybody has a [sexual orientation] before ever engaging in sex

There’s only one “sexual orientation”, pathologies don’t count.

[GreatOne]

The B.S.A. chiefs should find out who the renegades are, and get rid of them immediately. This is absolutely horrible - if these s.o.b.'s don't like the B.S.A. policy, then they should either get elected to management themselves and overturn the policy, or just leave the organization altogether. Pederasts are rampant in our society, and they need to be kept away from our kids, whether they be priests or scoutmasters. Anyone supporting putting our kids in potential danger (while sodomites may not be the vast majority of pedophiles, they are the vast majority of pederasts) should be expelled.

[Coleus]

It's sick out there.

Is Lawrence Worse Than Roe?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/937218/posts

THE LAW OF MARRIAGE AND FAMILY
Harvard Law Review
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/936205/posts

Text of Justice Scalia's Dissenting Opinion [to paraphrase, "epitaph for Christian civilization"]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/936318/posts

Paganism on the Rise in Europe (I'm sorry to say, in America too)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/931845/posts?page=101#101

Global 'gay' rights measure before U.N.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/900862/posts

Lucifer, The First Liberal
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/904024/posts

Same-sex marriage issue fuels debate in NJ
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/935624/posts

[RonF]

There's a gay teen boy that's a Scout?? Why???

Because he likes the kinds of things that Scouts do; because his parents like the things that the program teaches; and because the people associated with the Troop figure that "morally straight" doesn't exclude homosexuality.

[RonF]

I can't think of too many reasons why a gay man would want to be alone with teenage boys and in a position of authority over them, other than the obvious one.

I can think of two: 1) He was a Scout himself and has been moved by the principles he learned, such as "loyal", "helpful", and "Duty to Country" to want to help bring it to others in his community, and 2) he's got a son and he wants to participate in the program with him as a registered leader.

And that's likely the only way that a homosexual is going to get into Scouting, since I can't imagine that any unit committee will approve the application of any person, gay or straight, that doesn't have a kid in the unit and has no obvious connection to Scouting, especially if the guy is gay.

[RonF]

Notify the authorities over the troop about the beliefs of the leaders. If you belong to a group, then you should follow the group's rules, otherwise don't be in the group. The funding could be cut off from the troop and the leaders removed.

Most units are funded by the parents and leaders. Most units get little funding from their sponsor (LDS units excepted), and none from Council or National. So your move won't cut off their funding. And in most examples of this that I've seen, the sponsor is squarely behind the unit's policy, or even was the cause of it.

In order to stop a unit from doing this kind of thing, you'd have to go to the local Council.

[RonF]

The policy we followed in SE Wisconsin was simple: don't ask, don't tell. In addition, a Scout leader was NEVER to be alone with any Scout unless they were CLEARLY observable by others.

Both of which are National policy.

[RonF]

As far as I know, Scouting is open to all boys. It's the leadership that can't be gay.

Not true. Scouting is only open to boys that pledge to uphold the Scout Law and Scout Oath (and thus cannot be atheists, as well).

[RonF]

However, National says that gays can join as long as they are not "avowed" gays. Thus, as long as they don't walk around declaring their sexual orientation, they can join.

[RonF]

Have a woman ASM demand to be able to lead teenage boys who are not her children. Demand it as a right that she be able to go camping with them the same way the male ASMs can.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the BSA. A female ASM can do this.

[Flint]

Boy Scout's national policy that bans gay Scouts

That is an outright lie. Boy Scout national policy is that if a person is gay and they keep it to themself there is no conflict. If the person goes public with their gayness then they cannot be part of the Scout program.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Answer: Because their goal is to force acceptance of their lifestyle in every avenue of our lives.

That just about sums it up.

I would think quality of members would be more important that quanity.

[Kahonek]

"Men love...Boys have fantasies."

Just curious -- are you saying that boys are incapable of love? It seems to me that the capacity for love predates the capacity for sexual attraction.

"romantic and sexual attraction are not joined together in the teen stage"

I would agree that the sexual often outstrips the romantic in teens, but I do think that many teens (both boys and girls) have very strong romantic attractions. These are virtually always directed toward the same target gender as their sexual attractions.

"Healthy men love both men and women, but control their sexual urges."

Agreed. However, they love men and women not only for different reasons, but also in qualitatively different ways. Their romantic and sexual attractions are almost always directed toward a single gender (most often toward women). Your message makes it sound like they're lusting after everybody and it's only by controlling their urges to have sex with one gender that they develop a sexual orientation. Most people (especially men) have very little doubt about which way they're oriented, and they don't have any attraction in the other direction.

[Kahonek]

"There’s only one “sexual orientation”, pathologies don’t count."

Hi, Clint. It's customary, when replying to a post, to include some information in your message that's relevant to that post. Just thought I'd mention it...

[Jotmo]

This kind of thing makes me so angry, can hardly type. I have a boy in Cub Scouts, and two more ready to follow right behind him, and I’m very involved in a local Boy Scout troupe. (Going scuba diving with them this week. How cool is that?)

Many have already posted most of my thoughts better than I could right now.

If you don’t support the BSA’s policies, leave and form your own organization that promotes boys and fagot leaders spending “quality time” together. You could call it “Rump Rangers”. Lets see how many parents line up to let you sent their boys into the woods with a fudge packer leader for a week.

My wife was going be a Girl Scout leader, but after learning that they allow gay leaders, and that the Girl Scouts pushes a liberal feminist “girl power” agenda, she would have nothing to do with it.

Likewise, if the BSA ever changes it’s policy on gays, my boy and I would leave post haste!

I just love this “We like the values the Boy Scouts teach, but we don’t agree with excluding gay leaders”. That’s part of their values, moron. It’s what makes them who they are. If they compromise on those beliefs what are they? If they’re willing to compromise on fag leaders, who’s to say that they won’t compromise on another core value that you agree with. Then it’s just another PC group that lets its policies change with the winds of public opinion.

The very reason they have “other” admirable values is because they resist changing to fit the latest fads. If that happens the BSA will cease to exist, (which is what they want) and you could send your boy to the local playground and get the same “values” education they’d get from what would be left of the BSA.

These leaches want all the benefits of belonging to the scout, but don’t want to uphold the standards. Probably the same type of people who remove duty to God from the oath so as not to offend anyone. National needs to find them and toss them out, before the rot the organization for the inside.

[ArGee]

Agreed. However, they love men and women not only for different reasons, but also in qualitatively different ways.

True men love lots of men and women, for lots of unique reasons. But true men only have sex with their wives. They control their libidos.

No, there is nothing qualitatively different in the way I love my women friends and the way I love my men friends. There is a difference in the union I have with my wife, because of and as a part of my sexual relationship with only her.

And I am saying that boys are incapable of true love. It takes a man to get out of the selfish, "I love what you do for me" phase.

Shalom.

[Quick1]

If you are straight, you are not promiscuous.

BAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH! Whew, that was a good one!

Did you ever go to high school? Heck, have you been around men much? Most males try to get laid as much as possible, regardless of their sexuality.

[Kahonek]

"true men...control their libidos..."

...or at least their sexual behavior, yes. However, I would submit that it is much easier for most men to control both libido and behavior with one gender than with the other. That's what I refer to as sexual orientation.

"boys are incapable of true love"

Here we disagree. I think you would have difficulty convincing many parents of this. Of course it's only a retrospective anecdote, but I think my love for others when I was a boy was based on much more than what they did for me.

Thanks for replying. I enjoy reading your posts on FR.

[Clint N. Suhks]

It's customary, when replying to a post, to include some information in your message that's relevant to that post.

Whoops sorry, I thought for a minute there you were comparing rational behavior with paraphilic disorder. Silly me.

[ArGee]

However, I would submit that it is much easier for most men to control both libido and behavior with one gender than with the other

Your submission is accepted. Your proof?

You are probably correct that it is normal for a man to be heterosexual. But I have heard a lot of evidence that even this is culturally passed down. It seems normal because homosexual cultures don't survive. (Gee, I wonder why not?) But there is much evidence that little boys don't really like little girls as much as other little boys and it takes quite a bit of time for them to change. Moreover, they change at different rates. Considering there is a tribe in New Zealand where it is considered normal for boys to be homosexual until they turn 18, then they become functional heterosexuals, I think the evidence for a natural "orientation" is pretty slim.

It is the role of the adults in society to nurture the children. Part of that is guiding them into healthy sexual models. Homosexual behavior is not among them.

Shalom.