What's Really Behind the Episcopal Controversy (Vanity)

August 6, 2003 | Miss Marple

[Miss Marple]

With apologies for posting a vanity, but I wanted to put this theory up for serious discussion.

The gay movement in churches does, indeed force people out (along with other divisive liberal issues). I myself have left my life-long church, the Methodists, because of several doctrinal and political disagreements.

I have noticed that the gays are not lobbying in the Southern Baptists, nor in the Church of Christ, nor in the Assemblies of God. Now, one would on its surface think that it is because those churches are less susceptible to the message of "inclusiveness." That may be true, but there is another underlying reason as well, I think.

The mainline Protestant denominations, as well as the Roman Catholics, own a great deal of real estate and have fairly large bank accounts. The real estate (in Manhattan and Boston and other large cities across this nation) is owned by the denomination, not the individual congregation, and is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. An entire Episcopal congregation who wishes to split from the church and go independent must LEAVE the building, abandoning it to the gay-friendly people. This holds true for the Methodists as well, and I believe for the rest of the mainline denominations and the Roman Catholics.

On the other hand, most Southern Baptist congregations own their property individually. They can withdraw without losing the building, nor would they lose control of their bank accounts.

It seems to me that this is a concerted effort to not only shape public opinion but, more importantly, to control real estate and money. Money is used to sway political beliefs, push certain social issues, and shape public discourse.

If I wanted to control a lot of real estate and church bank accounts, so that the money could go to causes I believed in but were not supported by most of the congregants, I would choose to infiltrate the church with people whose presence would FORCE OUT those who have less radical views, and I would also be forcing them to leave the very expensive real estate, bank accounts, and endowments behind. I could then funnel money to groups like anti-war organizations without any objection.

It seems to me that there is a plan afoot to rob people who have donated their time and treasure (in some families' cases, for generations) to a congregation and church building, and secure the land and money for their own purposes.

In other words, this is about money as much as sex. Otherwise, why wouldn't these people simply start their OWN churches? I have not forgotten how once before we were distracted from the real evil by a story about sex.

They don't want to start their own churches, because they want the land, the buildings, and the money. I think this needs to be looked at with more attention to the financial side.

I also would like to point out that manay mainline churches also control large universities, and this also supports my theory that the issue is financial and political control, not simply sex.

Let us not forget that Satan comes as a thief in the night.

[Marysecretary]

Wonder what he'll say when he stands before God? People don't like to think of Judgement Day but it will come and he will stand before God in all his sin and be sent away. Sad.

[AppyPappy]

The StormFront was referring to what you said. There is no correlation between Judaism and homosexuality in Hollywood. It's a strawman. The problem is liberalism in Hollywood.

I hear the same type of thing from people who blame the "Christians" for bad things. I'm tired of being bashed for stuff I haven't done just because I am a Christian. I'm sure the Jews feel the same way about Hollywood.

[sauropod]

Worth your time to read.

[bert]

If it is about money and religion, then it will eventually be about death. That is the lesson of history.

[Marysecretary]

I do believe one big reason why women are pastoring churches is because in many cases, the men just won't. Men have abdicated their responsibility to be priest, prophet and king in their own homes. Why should we be surprised when they do the same in their churches. God made them the heads of their homes and many, not all, have abdicated that responsibility and let their wives do it. No surprise here.

[AppyPappy]

Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,
"Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."

[Marysecretary]

And these churches don't preach salvation so they're safe there...not saved, but 'safe.'

[B Knotts]

On the other hand, maybe they should consider becoming Anglican Use parishes en masse.

[ken5050]

The one question I'd like to ask all my fellow Episcopalians is why we're surprised that we've come to this....I mean, what's the big deal about ordaining an openly gay minister...For years, the majority of ministers in my diocese have been open advocates of a woman's right to choose...heck...if they're down with killing babies...well, this is nothing by comparison..

[stainlessbanner]

Try Southern Baptist - you might like them.

[Marysecretary]

That was one reason I left the Methodist Church and didn't tithe there even though I knew I should. Had it gone to the little church I belonged to and served, I wouldn't have minded but the Methodist Church belongs to the communist/socialist group that helped Mandela get his start. I'm very happy where I am now. Our money stays in our congregation and goes to the christian school here and to missions. None of this hierarchy. Thank God!

[Guenevere]

See!..I knew you were on to something!

Well said, Miss Marple.

[Guenevere]

#13...In a nutshell!!

[Freebird Forever]

Take over a seminary, and within a generation the results can be seen in culture. The pastors and ministers turned out from the corrupt institution will be turned loose on an unsuspecting flock

Almost like christiandoms' version of a Wahabi madrassa, with equally distructive results.

[rstevens]

The people should stay, but organize to defeat these bishops who would rob them of their Church assets.

If the grassroot members would organize themselves and immediately stop tithing and donating to the church, the parent organization would then have to pay for operating expenses from their own funds. So instead of leaving, just stop financial support to the church. You can satisfy God's rules of tithing by donations to other religious outreaches such as misionaries etc. You will soon get the attention of management.

[Zack Nguyen]

Would this be helpful for you?

http://orthodoxanglican.net/

Note: I have not fully examined this site. I assume it is a conservative group. They have member churches.

[B Knotts]

There is much in your church teachings that cannot be traced to Christ's Teachings.

Sometime, when you have some free time, take a gander at the Catechism. You will notice all the footnotes. Those all reference either specific Scripture readings, or magisteral writings which themselves reference Scripture.

It's fair to say that some might disagree with the conclusions reached in the Catechism from our reading of Scripture, but it's footnoted there for all to see. It's not like how the Church has come to her Teachings is hidden or anything.

[hellinahandcart]

I am glad you posted this, and I agree.

There are Episcopal churches in this town that are far left and were also solidly antiwar, and courted and gave platforms to communist groups like United for Peace and Justice. My church was not one of them, thank God. All four of our priests were FOR the war, though they pretty much kept politics out of the pulpit.

I sure didn't think I'd have cause to worry about something like this so soon. As I told someone earlier, it's going to be an interesting Sunday. Probably an interesting series of Sundays, until I can make a decision.

[Guenevere]

#26..Come in from that wilderness, and try the Presbyterian Church PCA.
They broke away from mainline Presbyterian years and years ago.

They do not ordain women as pastors....they are strongly pro-life, conservative and I dare say, this 'gay thing' will never be an issue.

[Maigrey]

Your commentary sounds reasonable, and understandable. This infiltration of the religion in question seems to be similar to the political aspects of our nation: subversion of historical texts and perversion of the morals and standards which we live today.

Call me a bigot, but I still can hate the sin and love the sinner, 'cept when they are flaunting their sin. They are giving up their chance for later for the pyrite of now.

Simply Foolish and quite misguided. I feel for those who do still believe...