Are Episcopalians Still a Church? A Lutheran theologian/journalist examines Robinson confirmation

Christianity Today ^ | 8/7/03 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

[Miss Marple]

Fred Barnes attends a dissenting Anglican church in the DC area. I read that some time ago. Of course, it might be out in Virginia somewhere...I don't know where it is. There are some web sites that list alternatives to the Episcopals.

[nightdriver]

The entire sad episode reminds me of the communists gloating about how easy it was to take over the Presbyterian seminaries in the '60s.

Their blatant disregard of Biblical authority only increased continuously after that. I had to leave them because of it.

It looks like the Edwardian Granite Heap is going through the same death throes.

[keilimon]

The Episcopal Church lost it when they refused to discipline (or excommunicate) Bishop Spong for denying the divinity of Christ. The rest has been a slow descent into madness.

[TaxRelief]

Try this link. The American Anglican Council

They are headquartered in DC, so it stands to reason that there must be a local Anglican place of worship.

[narses]

Ping.

[keilimon]

Perhaps a cash cow - our Parish had to buy back it's own property when it split from the ECUSA in 1976. There will be conservative Parishes that will pay the ECUSA to keep the property they already own - I think you can properly call it legalized extorsion.

[infowarrior]

There was a conservative Episcopal church in Akkokeek Maryland, but they've been forced by the Bishop of DC to be more PC, when the leftists of DC, with Bishop Dixon at the fore, utilized the US courts to oust the pastor chosen by the congregation, in a nasty battle a year or two ago...

the infowarrior

[TaxRelief]

Just say you are a "Conservative Anglican", instead.

(Maybe we can sue the ECUSA for "defamation of character" or "violation of a contract". I feel defamed and violated.)

[TaxRelief]

I suspect that the Anglican World Communion could make a valid case in court stating that they have equal rights to the property of the ECUSA. A judge might force a settlement between the two.

[MissAmericanPie]

We have been fore warned many places in scriptures, such as Proverbs 7 and Jude about the orgainzed churches in the last days becoming apostate. These people are "pre-ordained" for this condemnation, Jude. They are having a high old time now, but it will be short lived. Eternity lasts a very long time.

Come out of her my people lest ye be partakers of her iniquities and receive of her punishments. It's time for the tuff to get going, we are in the last days and should draw ever closer to God in order to endure. Something wicked this way comes.

[Calpernia]

You are right in the ballpark as to what I've been trying to rally!

Forgive my rant, but:

Al Qaeda was the organization that empowered all the smaller jihad cells. From newer research, Al Qaeda my be a communist tail wagging...But anyway, the point is:

It provided a centralization for intelligence, financing and supplies. Yet the cells were able to function independently too.

"Since the enemy of my enemy is also my friend", you really could say all these radical leftist organizations that have infiltrated our schools (NEA), left wing grass roots movements (ie., MoveOn), antiwar protestors, right to choose, and even the environmental groups are part of Al Qaeda, or a higher communist organization as recently researched with www.cpusa.org . You follow the money and infiltration up far enough, it leads back to the infiltrators that have come at us from all sides.

The right wing movement isn't as strong as we need it to be. We are all functioning independently of each other. The resources we have are far superior; but weak since we are divided. If there was a way we could pull together and function more on the lines of Al Qaeda, we could stop this left/dem/commie infiltration in its tracks.

What was the strength of Rome? The warriors would copy their enemies fighting tactics and win.

So, let's sue...let's organize. Let's funnel our money better! Or we can sit back and just passively bitch to each other on FR.

[FormerLib]

Sure, they are still a church. They are just not long a Christian one!

[Kay Soze]

Agreed.

They are a church but not a Christian Church.

How can this Bishop help someone struggling with the sin of homosexuality?

Will a Drunkard Bishop be next?

Or a adulterer Bishop?

This Bishop defines himself by his sin rather than his virtue or faith.

[Capriole]

Thanks, I followed this sad story closely while it took place. It was hard to believe that the Lord would permit this great injustice at the hands of the suffragan bishop of Washington.

[TaxRelief]

I've been working on copying one of their favorite tactics: labeling people.

We say "queer is immoral"; they label us 'homophobes'.
We say control illegal immigration; they label us 'zenophobes'.

So in response:

When they say "Christianity is too judgemental"; I'll label them 'Lost souls'.
When they say "Gay is the only way"; I'll call them 'heterophobes' or 'antifamilial'.
When they say "Government control is good"; I'll label them 'elitists'.
When they ridicule the premise that a free republic is the best form of government, I'll refer to them as 'anticonstitutional' or call them 'suppressionists'.

The above is an example of copying one of their tactics. The funny thing is, I can do it, but it doesn't feel like I'm doing the right thing, somehow.

[keilimon]

One can only hope, but there are court precedents that favor the ECUSA position. Strange, in that the ECUSA did not use it's money to build or maintain the Parish.

[Grampa Dave]

I was going to ping you. As I replied to your thesis yesterday, the Episcopal Church Members in Redding found out the hard way who owns the local churches. It ain't the locals. The Bishop and his board the Diocese owns the buildings and the land not the lay members who raised and donated the money to buy the land and build the churches.

[Wrigley]

You know you shouldn't stand in the way of "progress."

[sydney smith]

The question I have is...Why remain in this church? This is a serious question from a Catholic. Why try to salvage it? Do you folks believe that your Church was founded by Christ Himself as we do? If not, why not join a Lutheran or other protestant church? This is not a polemical question.

[TaxRelief]

Why remain in this church?

The simple facts: The worldwide Anglican Communion has close to 70 million members (and growing). The Episcopal Church has only 2.3 million members (and shrinking). They comprise less than 4% of the total--but if you asked them, they think they are The Church.

This tiny faction of the Anglican Communion, the Episcopal Church, is no longer in the business of saving souls, BUT the Anglican community is a major force in worldwide mission and ministry. Dismantling the entire network-of-salvation because of an errant few would be, well, Satan's dream-come-true.