Ultimate insult for American programmers as employers seek cheaper labor

modesto bee ^ | 8-11-03 | Rachel Konrad

[hoosierskypilot]

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - Scott Kirwin clung to his job at a large investment bank through several rounds of layoffs last year. Friends marveled at the computer programmer's ability to dodge pink slips during the worst technology downturn in a decade. But it was tough for Kirwin, 36, to relish his final assignment: training a group of programmers from India who would replace him within a year.

[clamper1797]

Anyone else getting the same sort of odious whiff of another American sellout program?

Absolutely

[Paul Ross]

If that's true, you have a legitimate lawsuit on your hands, either for personal gain or simple revenge. But I never read posts about such actions, or read about them in the paper. It must be a conspiracy.

The fact is, lawyers will not take these actions on a contingency basis. So you have essentially middle class people trying to pay for their lawyers (and this after they are living on unemployment comp. or at a substandard job) to sue MegaLith Outsourcing Corp. and its team of top-notch litigators who will bury the other side in discovery demands and depositions expenses. Hence the reluctance for taking such cases on a contingency.

[cmak9]

I don't know about the software jobs posted on Monster BUT I do know that most of the hardware jobs listed on it are BOGUS.

Monster.com is owned by an anti-gun zealot (whose name escapes me at the moment), and, like most of their ilk, is probably a liar to boot. So it wouldn't surprise me if the jobs on their site are bogus.

[PigRigger]

My prayers for you and yours also; it is something no hardworking American should have to deal with. Unfortunately, the times they are a changing.

As a web programmer I understand your plight. Although I seem to be safe now, one never can predict the future. Everyday I look at my wife and kids and wonder what the hell I'll do if they come for me. I think the only thing saving me is that my employer is a mutual company. The stock companies seem to be much more willing to outsource to meet stock holder expectations.

Many freepers really don't understand what it takes to be compete in this field; 60-70 hour weeks are common place for me. These do not even include the hours required to keep up with the ever changing technologies I am required to master. Re-tooling is next to impossible if I wish to keep my current position.

I ain't crying; I'm just confused about how to proceed.

Again, I pray you find a good job and peace of mind soon.

[Alouette]

Maybe being a contractor and having to hustle for another assignment every 6 months has kept my job-hunting skills in fitness. Nevertheless it sucks everytime my contract ends, but I have never yet had to train a replacement.

I have a website that I started "just for fun." I have banner ads and sell stuff through affiliate programs like amazon, commission junction and various other online stores, but it's not enough to support a family on, just a little extra to make up for the paycuts that I have had to endure since the "boom" of 1999-2000 (The Y2K insanity).

[RaceBannon]

bump

[nutmeg]

FYI

[dfwgator]

I don't mean to downplay the impact of offshoring, but the real culprit is the bad economy. There are simply not enough projects to go around right now. For any new project, the projected ROI has to be outrageous as well as the payback period, or it's a non-starter. So even if you are on the "bleeding edge" you are having a hard time since companies are just making with what they currently have.

[american spirit]

In a sad sort of way this thread is reminiscent of the old "first they came for the trade unionists and I did nothing because I wasn't one of them"......now it's become "first they came for the factory jobs and I did nothing, then they came for the carpenters and plumbers jobs and I did nothing, now they've come for mine and there's nobody left to help defend me and my job".

[Noumenon]

Bingo - that's the ticket. Soft sabotage.

[harpseal]

I don't mean to downplay the impact of offshoring, but the real culprit is the bad economy. There are simply not enough projects to go around right now. For any new project, the projected ROI has to be outrageous as well as the payback period, or it's a non-starter. So even if you are on the "bleeding edge" you are having a hard time since companies are just making with what they currently have

Clearly the ROI on offshoring is ionflated by programs such as OPIC which is a government subsidy program for overseas investment. Thus offshoring has an artificially inflated Return of Investment in comparison to American investment becuase the risk premium is taken away by the Political risk insurance and perhaps even the money used is a low interest governbment subsidized loan.

[harpseal]

You should probably withhold that judgement, at least based on the flames I've taken in the past. I am a free trade proponent, generally, and am against (again, generally) protectionist tariffs. I'm sensitive to the labor issues, but haven't been pulled over to the other side (yours, I assume) yet.

We have conversed before particularly regarding the use of H1B personel in the medical field. Where you convinced me that the real solution in the medical field is getting rid of proce controls on providers so that they can pay enough to attrcat American talent that have left the profession. Until then H1B's in that field are the only way services can be provided.

However, on tariffs. you say you are generally against protectionist tariffs. well IMHO protectionist tariffs are justified in response to protectionist tariffs used against American goods. In one case I can think of nation uses tariffs of 50% against consumer goods while demanding investment for the right to sell in their market. Further they artificially manipulate their currency value to export more to the USA. I take the stand tariffs are a very acceptable andf constitutional means to balance out things like currency controls and another nations protective tariffs on American goods and services. Note teh rupee has been subject to currency controls in order to improve the ability to export IT services and the Indian government does give substantial aid to their IT industry at least according to online Indian newspapers.

[txhurl]

I wonder the same thing about monster.

Dice is at least more or less empty, which may prove their legitimacy.

[PigRigger]

"first they came for the factory jobs and I did nothing, then they came for the carpenters and plumbers jobs and I did nothing, now they've come for mine and there's nobody left to help defend me"

Your right. Should have known what goes around comes around.

[chimera]

And some labor experts say out-of-work programmers should stop complaining, and focus on their own re-training, just like the Rust Belt assembly line workers whose factory jobs migrated to Mexico and Asia in the 1980s.

We told the factory workers to get retrained or educated when they lost their jobs. What did we tell them to go into? Computers. So now what do we tell people who went into IT and are now out of a job? What's the next thing we tell them to retrain for? Flipping burgers? Filing lawsuits? Writing insurance policies to sell to an unemployed, bankrupt workforce? Become financial planners for people who have no income? IOW, retrain to do what?

[bedolido]

That's what's happening to me right now... we're training some programmers from India and our Price Maintenance system is being out-sourced to India by the end of this year. I work for a major grocery retailer (It's Your Store) and it's maddening.

About 2 years ago we had some layoffs. Before the released the layoff list, they bullet proofed the windows of the CEO and repainted all the "Private Parking" areas for the big-wigs.

This is really bad news for high tech programmers.

[bedolido]

We're getting nothing in return. The companies that do it are getting programmers at $5.00 a week (not sure what the difference really is). The USA Corporations believe they'll save money buy out-sourcing. A major job cost in all businesses are employees and their benefits.

[txhurl]

Does 'my' store care if I pay in food stamps or cash? Does it matter?

Hey, just as soon as it's hip to be 'po, I'm signing up for services.

[bedolido]

nope... they don't care, as long as you don't try to purchase things not authorized for food stamps. We are taught an official look of disdain while looking sympathetic at the same time.

[txhurl]

We are taught an official look of disdain while looking sympathetic at the same time.

Non-IT types who still have jobs have mastered this expression but with a little schadenfreunde thrown in.