White without Apology

TooGoodReports ^ | 08/13/03 | Bernard Chapin

[dwd1]

Though I do not believe that some of my employers and clients behave as though this 13th amendment truly exists(or perhaps they believe that it does not apply to computer nerds like myself), I think you make an excellent point. I think that if I can get my clients and employers to better understand the 13th and society, in general to understand the equal protection part of the 14th, we are going to be all right...

[sandydipper]

Very Good Post - I have never quite got the handle on "African American". To me either you're African or American - unless you were born in Rawanda and then became a US citizen. I do believe there is "institutionalized" blacks - they are the 4th and 5th generations who live in City Housing and get Government welfare checks. Never gonna change and they blame whites for it.

[LexBaird]

The above italicized is from a Lincoln admirer and presents some flaws in your argument that Lincoln only acted "constitutionally". Lincoln acted pragmatically, strategically and politically.

The idea that the EP was a political, pragmatic move doesn't invalidate that it was done in a legal manner.

Moreover, your source is not a statement of fact, but an analysis by somebody. That analysis is based on the opinions of the author and is not a valid proof.

[dwd1]

The 4th or 5th Generation is not likely because welfare and public assistance have not been around that long but the blame game...Got to give you that one... As I have said before...Do something about the schools...Education is the silver bullet....

[wardaddy]

I'm ambivalent about Lincoln.

Some here loathe him. Some love him.

The war did eventually lead to freeing slaves but that was not in my opinion Lincoln's first reason for waging it. I was taught as a boy (in the South) that he fought to preserve the Union and to keep the Cotton states in and I still believe that.

Unfortunately, in doing so, he led to Federal power which has reached proportions that I don't think anyone ever imagined. Call it the "incorporation of the Union" as much as the fight to preserve it. Granted, some before him were also advocates of Federal expansion over local soverignty.

I do wish he had lived. I As a Southerner think he would have offered better terms and his popularity would have kept the RRs in check to a degree.

The incorporation that has taken place from Washington was inevitable given our expansion and industrialization and concentration of populace in the NE at the time. I think many here simply wish the brakes had been applied at some point and Lincoln takes a bit of heat for that.

[wardaddy]

There are reams of proof that Lincoln did not free slaves in Southern areas under Union control.

Why do you suppose that was?

If his motivation was to free slaves in areas where he had Constitutional authority as military CIC then surely why not free the slaves in "rebellious" areas under Union subjugation?

[dwd1]

If you look at Garibaldi, Ghengis Khan, Alexander, Charlemagne, Napoleon, Oliver Cromwell, William the Conqueror, Gorbachev, and Lincoln...You see persons who made decisions that put a nation together and took them apart.... You may question Lincoln's motives and you can easily question his methods but I personally am not unhappy with the end result...

Do you think he belongs on that little display in South (or is it North?) Dakota?

[WhiskeyPapa]

The war did eventually lead to freeing slaves but that was not in my opinion Lincoln's first reason for waging it.

No one who examines the record will have that opinion. Lincoln said over and over and over that it was Union first. He said it plainly before the war; he said it plainly during the war.

But it is also true that the slave power precipitated the war because they knew that slavery was doomed if a man with Lincoln's convictions could get elected.

The loss of their dominance over the federal government dictated the timing of the rebellion.

Walt

[wardaddy]

Of course Lincoln deserves a few statues here and there.

[dwd1]

There was also a need to resolve the question of whether state law or federal law took precedence...As well as whether state interests superceded the national interests....

[wardaddy]

Are you personally happy with the continuing Federal incorporation....forget the motives which I know you cherish.

And btw, yes I am aware that the fellow who resided down the road from me at The Hermitage was also pretty big on increasing the scope of Federal power.

What about now? Would you like to see more or less Federal power?

[dwd1]

I have been looking around town....Could you direct me to the Rutherford B. Hayes Monument?...What about the Andrew Johnson Memorial?....

[wardaddy]

BTw....don't you usually say the war was fought over slavery?

Bookmarking...

[wardaddy]

I'd wager there is some sort of monument to Johnson near Greenville TN.

There will also one day be a William Jefferson Clinton monument in Hope....barf.

[dwd1]

Is this about state's right vs federal rights, the question of checks and balances where several checks have bounces, the abuse of power at the federal level (absolute power corrupts, absolutely), or the amount of federal spending we are paying for which makes it so difficult to afford a good steak dinner and a movie?

[dwd1]

Some have suggested that the monument to Clinton may appear phallic in nature perhaps suggesting he posseses or is a .....Never mind...

[HIDEK6]

As to Institutionalized Racism, there certainly is that. The Supreme Court made it the law of the land with their recent decision.

It just happens to be anti-white.

I think it was Ann Coulter who said Democrats have always been racists. It's just that they changed which race they would demonize.

[wardaddy]

Federal Power:

Good: Whipping ass in Wars...

Bad: Social programs for the most part, Roe v Wade, gun control, etc., taxes, land use determination


Property rights define us largely in the end and the Federal Government has an ever decreasing respect for that.

Small wonder the founders only allowed property owning males the vote...uh oh...I stepped in the pantyhose again.

[Non-Sequitur]

Slaves in states that did not secede, Maryland, Kentucky, Delaware, Missouri, were not freed until passage of the 13th Amendment after Lincoln's death.

Not entirely true. Slaves in Missouri and Maryland were freed when those states amended their Constitutions prior to January 1865. Slavery was ended in the District of Columbia during the war, 1862 if memory serves.

[wardaddy]

don't forget the Peyronies!