Private property rights? - advice needed to settle a bet

RightFighter

[RightFighter]

I'm just looking for some Freeper advice to help me settle a bet with a friend. Here's the situation:

We go to a church that practices biblical church discipline. The church believes very strongly in this and takes it very seriously, especially in the case of adultery and divorce. Well, recently, we became aware that there is a couple who will soon be getting a divorce. The woman is initiating it, not for infidelity or anything like that, but simply because her husband "doesn't have the same goals" that she does, etc.. Needless to say, she's being asked to leave the church because of this. When a member is expelled like this, church members are told that we are not to fellowship with the expelled member and are simply to pray that they would repent of their sin and return to the body and that we should urge them to do so any time we see them. This is where the argument with my friend comes up.

My friend says that, because the church is regularly open to the public, he doesn't think that it has the right to tell her that she can't come to church there, and that if she wanted to continue to come there, she could do so and the church could do nothing about it.

I say that the church, as a private entity, has every right to tell someone that they are not welcome on the property, and would have the right to have someone arrested for trespassing if they failed to heed such a request.

I would hate for it to ever come to something like that, and I doubt it would, because what church member would WANT to come to a church that doesn't want them there. My friend, however, just doesn't seem to agree with the whole church discipline thing, so he's drawn a line in the sand here with this argument. Who's right??? And can any of you give me any legal case that involved a similar situation that would back it up? Sorry for this whole post, but I tend to a little bit argumentative, and the nature of my relationship with my friend is such that it would be best to clear it up once and for all.

[AppyPappy]

church members are told that we are not to fellowship with the expelled member

This is a favorite tactic of cults.

[mbynack]

I'm guessing that the church would have the same property rights that a business owner has. They can tell someone that they aren't welcome and after that the person is trespassing if they set foot on the property.

[camle]

why cannot any place of public accomodation permanently ban a specific member of the public from the premises? happens all the time.

[jimt]

The fact is that a court could find either way, but that your point of view would prevail in the end (ala the Boy Scouts exclusion of homosexuals).

The church obviously has the moral right to exclude anyone who unrepentantly acts contrary to their beliefs.

[AppyPappy]

And yes, the church can ask people to leave the property. It is legal.

[mlmr]

The church is a private institution that accepts not government funding and can open or close its membership. That does not mean you cannot be sued into next week by an unscruplous lawyer with a grudge and drained as you protect your right... or you can be bullied into changing your rules like Bob Jones, and what is happening at the Golf Club down south.

[Ronaldus Magnus Reagan]

Casinos are public places and have the right to ban whomever they want, especially blackjack card counters and organized crime members.

[mlmr]

Cults like the Amish, the Mennonites, the Baptists, some orthodox Jews, Some Islamic denominations....

[maeng]

IMHO, withdrawing from a fellow member does not mean that you can physically keep them from coming to church as this would cause much disorder and division in the church (such as having a member arrested at church). However, you are correct that we are not to fellowship that person at all but are to pray constantly for them and their soul to be saved. Maybe by attending church, and hearing God's word that person will see that he/she is wrong and will turn from their sinful ways.

[Texas_Dawg]

And yes, the church can ask people to leave the property. It is legal. How sad that it would come to that. Why not just allow her to not be a member if she disagrees with the church's teaching, but banning her from ever attending? So much for wanting to teach her about the grace of Christ.

[AppyPappy]

Yup although the Baptists don't seem to practice it anymore. It goes against the whole agape thing. I have no problem with telling someone their sin is sin. That will drive them out better then shunning.

[Hodar]

I say that the church, as a private entity, has every right to tell someone that they are not welcome on the property, and would have the right to have someone arrested for trespassing if they failed to heed such a request.

Let's see, the church gets tax-free status, because it adminsters to those in need. Now, if you want to assume 'Private Property' rights, it would only make sense that the church would forfeit it's tax-free status. As for preventing a church member from attending .... my first question is "What version of Christianity has this as an option for 'Christ-like' behavior??". If she is committing a 'sin' in the church's eyes ... whom more do you think NEEDS to be in church than the sinner? The church is not a tax-free country-club.

[WestPacSailor]

This is a favorite tactic of cults.

It certainly is. However comma even cults, being private organizations, can ban whomever they wish from being a member of the cult. This church can do the same thing.

[AppyPappy]

Maybe by attending church, and hearing God's word that person will see that he/she is wrong and will turn from their sinful ways.

The convicting power of Scripture is much more effective than any other method.

[maeng]

I beg to differ, but churches have held to this biblical practice since it was written in the bible. It is not a cult thing, though they may use it. It is certainly scriptural.

[WestPacSailor]

Just for my own non-judgemental edification may I ask which church this post refers to?

[Texas_Dawg]

However comma even cults, being private organizations, can ban whomever they wish from being a member of the cult.

Haha. "Comma"?

[AppyPappy]

Note: Churches pay taxes on property that is not used for church purposes.

[Texas_Dawg]

Just for my own non-judgemental edification may I ask which church this post refers to?

Haha. Nicely put.