Posted on 08/27/2003 11:33:41 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
Well, glad you've enjoyed. I always tend to learn something new and although I won't necessarily be giving Enoch more credit than I do now, I am better versed in some of the issues. Thanks for your patience.
I think your balance is quite Scriptural and fitting.
There are fitting things therein. Yet, it’s not fitting for the Canon, imho.
There are fitting and important insights into reality but not a full description of reality—spiritual and otherwise—in all respects any more than Scripture provides that.
It isn’t just Enoch that I love, but the Book of Jasher, where I learned these things:
that Noah was indeed a preacher of righteousness, for he preached righteousness in fact, as the Book of Jasher records the details of.:
2Pe 2:5 “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah ... a preacher of righteousness,”
`````
That Abel was indeed a prophet, who told Cain what the LORD would do to him if he indeed killed him, as Cain threatened to do and did do; and so Abel became the first slain prophet, whose blood will be required of “this one wicked generation” =the one generation called “the children of wrath”, who believe the devil’s lies and act upon them, as Cain did:
1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
Luk 11:50,51 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
`````
That Miriam was indeed a prophetess, and prophesied the birth of Moses and that he would deliver Israel from the bondage to the Egyptians, which prophesy caused her father to take her mother back to himself, because he had separated from her because the Egyptians were casting the babies in the river, and he did not want to “go in” to his wife, to impregnate her and bring a baby into the world who would only be cast into the river: “Exd 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.”
````
That Balaam indeed taught Balac to put a stumbling block in the path of the Iraelites and to cause them to commit fornication and to sacrifice to idols by that stumblingblock.
“Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”
````
That Moses’ Ethiopian wife was his by politics, but that he never went in to her because of his faith and obedience to God.
````
That From the Book of Jasher Paul got the names of the magicians who withstood Moses, Jannes and Jambres, who were brothers, and sons of Balaam.
“2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.”
````
That the two lion/el [god] creatures slain by Benaiah, in 1 Chronicles 11:22 were indeed “lion/el”, “genetically mixed creatures”, which the sons of God did provoke God by doing on earth. 1Ch 11:22 Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the son of a valiant man of Kabzeel, who had done many acts; he slew two lion/el of Moab
```
That’s just a wee bit of things I like the Book of Jasher for, because of finding lots of the missing pieces of OT and NT references.
Is it done?
I have questions about so many things relating to Jesus’ acceptance of Enoch as sacred writings. And then the calendar of Enoch and the celestial secrets is an interest, also, because the angel told Enoch; “these are their parabolic meanings”. This is a whole area of study in itself, pertaining to the creation and it’s limit of time and set seasons/divine appointments for all things that ever will be; and pertaining to freewill and divine, preordained, appointments.
“A time to be born and a time to die...”, “a course to run” in our “rising and setting” of the life we have been granted as a gift, in which to serve our Creator in faithfulness; and then to be rewarded for our faithfulness of that obedience to our “preordained path”; or rejected for our rejection of that course. We find our path by seeking His Light, “which lights every man that comes into the world”: and “everyone who seeks, finds”.
`````
” Enoch [Chapter 43]
1 And I saw other lightnings and the stars of heaven, and I saw how He called them all by their 2 names and they hearkened unto Him.
And I saw how they are weighed in a righteous balance according to their proportions of light: (I saw) the width of their spaces and the day of their appearing, and how their revolution produces lightning: and (I saw) their revolution according to the 3 number of the angels, and (how) they keep faith with each other.
And I asked the angel who went 4 with me who showed me what was hidden: ‘What are these?’
And he said to me: ‘The Lord of Spirits hath showed thee their parabolic meaning (lit. ‘their parable’): these are the names of the holy who dwell on the earth and believe in the name of the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.’”
```````
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.`````
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith:
Hbr 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
```````
We each come forth in our season, and if we find our true course -the good works ordained for us to walk in before the foundation of the world- then we will “shine like the stars” in the regeneration, for our faithfulness.
`````
Psalm 19:
The Perfect Revelation of the Lord
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.
In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
And rejoices like a strong man to run its race.
`````
`````
Then, on so many instances where Jesus quoted or referred to Enoch, He believed the writings should be known and understood by the rulers, as in this passage below, where He tells the Sadducees that they do not know the Scripture [sacred writings are meant] nor the power of God because they asked a question which is not answered in Moses but is answered in Enoch.
“The Sadducees: What About the Resurrection?
(Mark 12:18-27; Luke 20:27-40)
23 The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 24 saying: “Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 25 Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. 27 Last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her.”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.”
Decades ago, the indwelling Spirit nudged me to read many, many ancient manuscripts - which I have. And He has drawn me to some but not all information in some but not all of those books - as if a background or context only. Most of it was informative as to the thinking of the day. But a few were particularly engaging.
With Enoch, it was background to Genesis 6 and the blessing for the end times. In another, it was the background of Genesis 12 why Abraham was called. In another, it was the background to Job, why Satan was upset with him. In another, it was a physical feature the anti-Christ will not be able to change. In another, it was the origin of Mechelzedek.
But none of these ancient manuscripts compare with Scripture. When I read Scripture, the Spirit Himself brings the words of God alive within me as my eyes pass over the text. He authenticates them all. There is no comparison.
Thus I have nothing to discuss with you vis-à-vis your theology which relies so heavily on Enoch and Jasher. For me, it would be like trying to discuss theology with a Mormon – where there is some agreement on texts but Mormons hold many other texts as Holy writ which are not authenticated to me by the indwelling Spirit.
The object of this research project was not theology or prophesy but rather the legitimacy of the Enoch manuscript itself – and particularly whether the astronomy section contained any evidence that it could not have been fabricated with the knowledge of the day, i.e. 200 BC – the carbon-date of the copy of that section found at Qumran.
If was obviously held in high regard by the early Christians, being cited expressly by Jude and indirectly in many, many places throughout the New Testament. But the custody of the book has been horrid and the question lingers whether the manuscripts we have today, on which the translations have been based, are faithful to what the people in Christ's time enfleshed here on earth had available to them. Many scholars say yes to all but the Similitudes. Some say yes to the Similitude. And so on.
Thus I was enjoying the banter with Godzilla over translations, manuscripts, archeology and professional researchers. But it also became apparent to me that Godzilla has a theology which cannot accept Enoch at all, even as insight or background to the Scriptures – almost as if it were anathema to his theology.
So likewise, there is no point to discussing Enoch from a theological viewpoint there either.
Nevertheless, if either of you want to write an article on theology for the Religion Forum, please ping me.
Thanks for the ping to your fitting points, Dear Sister in Christ.
Thank you for the reply.
How do I write an article on theology in the religion forum?
If you are not familiar with HTML commands, you can either right click on this page and select "view source" to see what other people are using - or you can go here or google up other websites for help.
When it's ready to go, click on the "post" at the top of the forum page. The first question it will ask is which forum, select Religion Forum - and then it'll give you a form to fill in to post the article. For the body of the article, cut and paste what you wrote in the word processor.
It also gives you a chance to preview, which is always a good idea. LOL!
ok.
on what i have read,you are missing one key element to your top 20 and the fact that the mayans calender isnt the end of the world but there given date for the return of what was the ruling beings.
the mayans were slaves(as was the rest of the world) to whoever it was that ruled all those years ago and some may have learnt about the stars from the beings that travelled them.
as a so called educated race we certainly do seem to miss the simplicity of actually understanding what happened all those years ago.
their are too many logical answers to rule out a far superior race than our own.we picked up(and lost)most of what was taught in those early years and anyone can write a book and leave it for someone to find at a later date,the world is full of books with stories,some are believed some arent.
anyway the logic is simple a far superior race to us is set to reappear in 2012 and take from us what it wants and that is what the mayans calender is all about.so please put this at the top of your theory list as all the others are only probables.
steve
Thank you for sharing your views!
Hi There!
Hey I was just reading this article..Is this still going on?
I see you wrote about it first in 2003
http://www.visionrevisited.com/enochInho.htm
I got to go see some of the Dead Sea Scroll fragments at the Science Museum of Minnesota today. I didn’t know much about the book of Enoch but it is pretty interesting.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.