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Archaeology: Site Yields Evidence Of Farming (Wisconsin, 12,000 Year Ago Site)
Twin Cities.com/AP ^ | 9-3-2003

Posted on 09/03/2003 8:25:36 AM PDT by blam

Posted on Wed, Sep. 03, 2003

ARCHAEOLOGY: Site yields evidence of prehistoric farming on Door County peninsula

Associated Press

GREEN BAY, Wis. — Archaeology digs have provided researchers with the first hard evidence of organized, prehistoric agriculture on the Door County peninsula, a Marquette University researcher said.

The site along Wisconsin 57 in the southern part of the county may also give researchers more information on Ice Age glaciers in the bay of Green Bay.

"You don't get many sites like this in Wisconsin archaeology," said James Clark Jr., researcher for the university's Center for Archaeology Research. "We have multiple occupations over thousands of years here."

Crews from Marquette and the University of Wisconsin have accelerated years of digging near the highway in recent weeks, as the state finishes its investigation to expand Wisconsin 57 to four lanes from Green Bay to Sturgeon Bay.

A Marquette crew discovered tiny kernels of burnt corn and a milling stone, which was probably used to grind the corn, buried in sandy soil among artifacts dating to about A.D. 1200.

The corn and the stone, found near Fabry Creek in the town of Union, belonged to American Indians of the "Mero complex" Oneota period from about A.D. 1100 to 1300.

Clark said Oneota Indians once built a semi-permanent village there, and his crew has found evidence of at least one wigwam structure.

They also found piles of chipped stone, broken pots, arrowheads, spear points, burnt wood, bone fragments and dimly outlined trash pits.

Beneath the Oneota artifacts, the crew discovered several layers of older artifacts, each one representing another time period when American Indians occupied the area.

Clark said he believed the earlier occupations date to about 9600 B.C., about 12,000 years ago, because of the style of spear points found in the dig.

Archeologists have been digging through almost 5 feet of pure sand at the site, indicating a prehistoric beach, Clark said.

Lake waters at the time were very different. The shoreline rose and fell, according to the melting and freezing of the glaciers, over hundreds of years.

A thick layer of decayed plants may help determine the last ice retreat, Clark said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: archaeology; economic; farming; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; prehistoric; site
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The Farming is not 12k years old, the site is.
1 posted on 09/03/2003 8:25:37 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
They have been on digs in this area for @ 30 or 40 yrs now...
Just hope they dont declare Door County a UN antiquities site and shut it down to mere peasants who will no longer be allowed to recreate or grow cherries and apples there.
2 posted on 09/03/2003 8:29:59 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: joesnuffy
Door County is one of the most beautiful places to live in the world, period.
3 posted on 09/03/2003 8:43:45 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: blam
The Farming is not 12k years old, the site is.

Well, the site is a few billion years old (depending how we look on these things) ;-)

4 posted on 09/03/2003 8:46:28 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
"Well, the site is a few billion years old (depending how we look on these things) ;-)"

Okay. The human artifacts at the the site date back 12K years.

5 posted on 09/03/2003 8:56:08 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Pretty early for Cheesehead migrations, but I think there were small bands of Norwegians, Poles and Finns coming into the area with their characteristic lederhosen, pasties, polka music, Usinger's brats and flagons of Schlitz. A Melanesian tribe arrived from the west also, and settled the town of Kaukauna (original pronunciation was Ka-OO-ka-OOOOO-na).
6 posted on 09/03/2003 9:11:47 AM PDT by T'wit
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Bluebirds and cherry cider.

Of course it also has all those fish boils and you never know whether they are a Saturday night delicacy or a medical condition.

7 posted on 09/03/2003 9:14:22 AM PDT by T'wit
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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
I'm sure the buried John Deere tractor was a dead giveaway...

Just damn.

If you want on the new list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

8 posted on 09/03/2003 9:15:44 AM PDT by mhking
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To: blam
cows? they found diary cows?
9 posted on 09/03/2003 9:17:42 AM PDT by bedolido (None of us is as dumb as all of us!)
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To: blam
Oh I see.

Well, the site I live on is 6 billion years old.
Evidence of gardening, however, is only like 30 years old.

Do I issue a press release?

10 posted on 09/03/2003 9:22:11 AM PDT by Publius6961 (californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: blam
The site along Wisconsin 57 in the southern part of the county may also give researchers more information on Ice Age glaciers in the bay of Green Bay.

Already there is a 30 year waiting list for pepole to view the site ;-)

11 posted on 09/03/2003 10:29:03 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: T'wit
Pretty early for Cheesehead migrations, but I think there were small bands of Norwegians, Poles and Finns coming into the area with their characteristic lederhosen, pasties, polka music, Usinger's brats and flagons of Schlitz. A Melanesian tribe arrived from the west also, and settled the town of Kaukauna (original pronunciation was Ka-OO-ka-OOOOO-na).

Dat area in Door County's heavily Belgian, dontcha know. Ya gots yer booyah, ya gots yer Belgian pie, an' ya gots yer Belgian sausage.

12 posted on 09/03/2003 11:08:31 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: blam
the earlier occupations date to about 9600 B.C., about 12,000 years ago, because of the style of spear points

Are the spear points Indian?

13 posted on 09/03/2003 11:13:56 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: blam
It came from behind the CHEDDAR CURTAIN.....
14 posted on 09/03/2003 11:16:07 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: RightWhale
"Are the spear points Indian?"

Probably not. There weren't any Indians here that long ago, they got here only 6,000 years ago. Must be Kennewick Man's people. (..and probably pre-Clovis like Cactus Hill and the Topper sites)

15 posted on 09/03/2003 11:27:58 AM PDT by blam
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To: RightWhale
...or, some of these prehistoric Europeans.

European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida (Windover)

16 posted on 09/03/2003 11:31:17 AM PDT by blam
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To: OXENinFLA
"It came from behind the CHEDDAR CURTAIN....."

Check out 9,000 year old Cheddar Man, he still has living relatives.

17 posted on 09/03/2003 11:35:34 AM PDT by blam
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To: T'wit
Ciscos !
18 posted on 09/03/2003 11:44:58 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: farmfriend
Ping.
19 posted on 09/03/2003 11:52:12 AM PDT by blam
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To: Catspaw
> Dat area in Door County's heavily Belgian, dontcha know.

Yeah, well dat may be so NOW, doncha know, but dose early Cheeseheads, dey were somebody else, hey, dey got dere so early, dey don't know to wear green and gold, doncha know. Dey wore deerskins and a lot of dem got shot by da Yoopers.

20 posted on 09/03/2003 12:22:01 PM PDT by T'wit
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To: blam
ping
21 posted on 09/03/2003 12:35:08 PM PDT by genefromjersey (So little time - so many FLAMES to light !!)
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To: mhking; blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; bd476; carenot; CatoRenasci; ckilmer; curmudgeonII; dorothy; ..
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

22 posted on 09/03/2003 12:47:05 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: T'wit
And, you can pick up a cold case of Lineys dere at the Tirdy Below Liquor Store in Algoma.
23 posted on 09/03/2003 12:52:16 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: T'wit
Yeah, well dat may be so NOW, doncha know, but dose early Cheeseheads, dey were somebody else, hey, dey got dere so early, dey don't know to wear green and gold, doncha know. Dey wore deerskins and a lot of dem got shot by da Yoopers.

Yoopers? Hah! Dey jus got lost on dere way to Washington Island.

But ya know, if yer goin to Door County, ya gots to stop at Joe Rouers. I know it ain't in Door County, but in Champion on A in Kewaunee County, but hey! He's got good burgers, damn good burgers. Ya can git em plain, you can git em plain wid onions, you can git a cheeseburger wid onions, and ya can git a cheeseburger plain. Ya, I know it ain't been the same since Helen died, and den dere was da fire, but Joe saved dem big cast-iron fryin pans, so it's sorta like the old place almost, but Joe don't do much frying cept on weekends, and even den, cuz he's pretty damn old, ya know....he grinds the meat special, but he sez it's da pans.

24 posted on 09/03/2003 1:18:44 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Catspaw
Is that in Gogebic County ?
25 posted on 09/03/2003 1:57:18 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: farmfriend
hey, would you put me on your ping list?
Thanks!
26 posted on 09/03/2003 7:03:56 PM PDT by wafflehouse (the hell you say!)
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To: T'wit
Hey! I resemble that remark!
27 posted on 09/03/2003 8:13:17 PM PDT by Genesis defender (Happy 100th Anniversary, Harley-Davidson!)
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To: wafflehouse
Consider yourself added. Thanks.
28 posted on 09/03/2003 11:05:38 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: blam
Have the copper mining sites on U.P. Michgan ever been dated ? Just wondering whether any of the people who settle this site might have had a relationship to that mystery.
29 posted on 09/04/2003 2:39:49 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: happygrl
"Have the copper mining sites on U.P. Michgan ever been dated ? Just wondering whether any of the people who settle this site might have had a relationship to that mystery."

I believe they have been dated, I just can't remember the date. There does seem to be something strange surrounding those copper mines.

30 posted on 09/04/2003 7:34:40 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam; newgeezer
Wow, 6000 years before dirt was invented.
31 posted on 09/04/2003 7:37:49 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: Prodigal Son; biblewonk
Well, the site is a few billion years old (depending how we look on these things) ;-)

Depending on whom you believe.

32 posted on 09/04/2003 8:12:10 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: bedolido
cows? they found diary cows?

You can bet Hillary's will be published before too long. Rosie's, too.

33 posted on 09/04/2003 8:14:24 AM PDT by newgeezer (We learn by trail and errror. ;-)
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To: All
Speaking of Wisconsin cheese, I used to think it's good stuff.

But, Vermont cheese makes Wisconsin cheese taste like so much Velveeta.

34 posted on 09/04/2003 8:20:33 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: blam
Wasn't there a huge amount of ore that was taken out, with no evidence (in material culture in this hemisphere) as to what was done with it ?

And no evidence as to WHO the miners were.

Unless you believe in copper-loving lephrechuans.

35 posted on 09/04/2003 9:08:46 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: newgeezer
What do you mean?
36 posted on 09/04/2003 9:25:53 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: happygrl
"Wasn't there a huge amount of ore that was taken out, with no evidence (in material culture in this hemisphere) as to what was done with it ?"

There's an on-going fuss about what happened to it, yes, an enormous amount of ore that was taken from this site. I've read both sides of this story and each side has good arguments for their view. I lean toward the view that 'over-seas' miners came and took it. (During the European bronze age)

37 posted on 09/04/2003 9:34:29 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Yes, I would agree with that.

Copper is an essential component of bronze; they didn't call it the Bronze Age for nothing.

The implications for our understanding of ancient history are staggering.

Candidates for this adventure ?

Those mysterious Sea People.

38 posted on 09/04/2003 10:34:39 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: happygrl
"Those mysterious Sea People."

Perhaps. A number of people have been know as 'The Sea People.' Below linked is the widest known 'sea' people. BTW, Phonecian is a Greek word for 'red headed.'

Sea People

39 posted on 09/04/2003 10:41:57 AM PDT by blam
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To: Prodigal Son
What do you mean?

Some people believe, as you put it, "the site [or, the earth] is a few billion years old." Others believe it's in the thousands.

It just depends on whom you believe.

40 posted on 09/04/2003 11:06:41 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: newgeezer
Well, I suppose. But it's like my car. It's a 1991 model. Not all the believing in the world on my part will make it a new 2003 model. The light that comes from the computer screen to your eyes travels at a specific speed. The light from the farthest stars that we can observe has also travelled at this speed. Given the distances to the furthest stars, it must have taken a considerable length of time for it to reach us. This alone would imply that time has a history measured in lengths of at least nine figures... It's just an observation but it has obvious ramifications.
41 posted on 09/04/2003 11:46:41 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Given the distances to the furthest stars, it must have taken a considerable length of time for it to reach us. This alone would imply that time has a history measured in lengths of at least nine figures... It's just an observation but it has obvious ramifications.

Sure, as long as you refuse to believe a Creator could have created the star with already-emitted light.

Similarly, you could reject the notion that He created the already-aged (adult) Adam and Eve.

Again, it's just a matter of whom you believe. The light-years prove nothing more than your assumptions.

42 posted on 09/04/2003 11:54:36 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: newgeezer
Ah, but one could also believe a Creator made a universe that we currently inhabit that is several billions of years old.
43 posted on 09/04/2003 1:12:08 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Sure, if one also believes that same Creator (1) would deceive us or (2) is not the Author of the Bible.
44 posted on 09/04/2003 1:25:29 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: newgeezer
That's the point. Why would a creator go to so much trouble to deceive us into believing the universe is a specific age (ie placing so many old things about and giving us minds and tools to observe these things)? I agree with you completely.
45 posted on 09/04/2003 1:31:45 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son; newgeezer
Parden me for butting in but, it would have seemed like a deception to man to have examined Adam the day he was created. He would have seemed to have been 20ish years old and one would have to thing that God was lying.

In Genesis God gives the order of creation which does not match the assumed order in the THEORY of evolution. Here again if God did a long day thing or a gap thing His word is fibbing about the length of days and the order of creation. It seems to be an awful easy thing to take God at His word and ascribe to Him the ability to have done it in whatever timeframe He wanted but definitely in the timeframe He said.

46 posted on 09/04/2003 1:41:20 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: T'wit
You reckon those Oneota were Packers fans?
47 posted on 09/04/2003 1:44:16 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Prodigal Son
Why would a creator go to so much trouble

"Trouble"? He spoke it into existence. Didn't even break a sweat.

to deceive us into believing the universe is a specific age

You're limiting your conclusion to your own set of rules, instead of allowing Him to set His own. You simply won't allow Him to create something that "looks old" to your way of thinking. Remember, prior to The Fall, nothing "aged." There was no such thing as entropy. Everything would have looked "old" to us, because we only know how things work in our own experience of time. He has no time.

But, if you insist on thinking that way, you'll have to also declare His creating the adult Adam was an identical deception. Because, when Adam was only one day old, he looked like an adult. Same goes for the plants, animals, fish, etc. Unless, of course, you dismiss the Creation Story altogether.

48 posted on 09/04/2003 1:46:10 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: newgeezer
Didn't even break a sweat.

Lol, I never said he did. Just a way of phrasing things. Look, I don't care whay you worship. Mohammed, Krishna, Roosters whatever. You're a free person. I respect that. As long as you drive on the proper side of the road (sober of course) and stop at stop signs and red lights you and I can coexist in this world no matter how old it is. I would also urge you to vote Republican- but again, this is up to you and is fine with me either way.

Have a nice day!

49 posted on 09/04/2003 1:54:27 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
whay = what
50 posted on 09/04/2003 1:55:14 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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