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Gray Davis' Cop-Killing Gun Law
RichardPoe.com ^ | October 8, 2003 | Richard Poe

Posted on 10/08/2003 4:03:52 PM PDT by Richard Poe

GRAY DAVIS is gone. But his destructive legacy lives on.

In the final weeks before his ouster, Davis used what dwindling power he had to hamstring California’s legal and political system for years to come. He made over 260 last-minute judicial and state commission appointments. Davis also quietly signed into law one of the most far-reaching handgun bans in the nation on September 24 – a law which threatens to send many California police officers to their graves.

Police and sheriffs all over the state pleaded with Governor Davis not to sign SB 489. But he ignored them. The law exemplifies a new trend in anti-gun activism: cop disarmament – a movement which seeks to limit the gun rights of police officers as well as civilians.

Democrats are the worst offenders, as usual. But the cop disarmament movement spans both major parties. New York City’s Republican mayor Michael Bloomberg, for instance, wants to bar off-duty and former cops from carrying weapons in City Hall. Perhaps His Honor fears that one of New York’s finest might try to shoot him. "I don't know why people carry guns," Bloomberg famously confessed. "Guns kill people..."

"Unfortunately, Mayor Bloomberg's reaction is not unusual," writes John Lott, Jr., author of The Bias Against Guns in the National Review Online. "Legislation to let off-duty and retired police carry guns with them when they travel across state lines is being held up in Congress by a threatened Senate Democratic filibuster. Sen. Ted Kennedy, (D., Mass.), who is leading the threatened filibuster claims that the measure would `do great damage to the effort of state and local governments to protect their citizens from gun violence.' "

Anti-gun activist Sarah Brady also opposes the bill, whose Senate designation is S253. "[I]t will… jeopardize public safety," she says

"What is next?" asks Lott. "Banning guns carried by on-duty officers?"

Now California’s lame-duck governor has dealt another blow to police officers’ gun rights. His new law, SB 489 requires all newly-designed, semi-automatic handguns sold in California to be equipped with two so-called "safety devices" by 2007.

The first device is a chamber load indicator, which shows whether or not a round is loaded in the firing chamber. The second is a magazine disconnect device which prevents the gun from firing once the magazine is removed.

Gun prohibitionists are delighted.

"We are so tired and sickened at heart to hear about all the children who die from guns every day, day after day," said Jane Roth, president of the Million Mom March's California State Council.

"This new law will prevent deaths all across the country," gushed Eric Gorovitz, Policy Director for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, in a September 24 press release.

In reality, SB 489 seems poorly designed to save any lives at all. Properly trained shooters always assume that the chamber is loaded and treat their guns accordingly, with or without a mechanical indicator. Careless or irresponsible shooters are another story. Chamber load indicators may cause such people to become even more reckless than they already are. A malfunctioning indicator could lull careless shooters into assuming that the chamber is empty when it is not.

The "magazine disconnect" device offers more serious dangers.

"The law enforcement community expressly rejects the `magazine disconnect’ feature, as it seeks to disable the firearm during a magazine change, a potentially life-threatening result for an officer in a shoot-out," states a press release from the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA), a national anti-crime organization of law enforcement professionals, crime victims and concerned citizens.

Davis’ bill exempts cops from mandatory use of the new "safety" features. However, even this exemption creates new dangers for police.

"Governor Davis’ bill… exposes California law enforcement and taxpayers to additional liability risk," says the September 25 LEAA press release. "The law officially defines guns lacking these features as `unsafe guns.’ As a result, nearly every single handgun used by California law enforcement officers will be officially defined as an `unsafe handgun,’ a notion certain to be exploited in lawsuits involving police use of firearms."

In short, California sheriffs and police chiefs must now choose between issuing mechanically unreliable guns to their officers, or guns deemed legally "unsafe." Either way, officers on the street will be forced to think twice before pulling the trigger – a hesitation that could well prove fatal in a shoot-out.

Anti-gun activists used to tell citizens to leave police work to the police. Now even cops must fight to retain what is left of their gun rights. _____________________________________

Richard Poe is a New-York-Times bestselling author and cyberjournalist. His book The Seven Myths of Gun Control was just released in paperback. Poe’s forthcoming book, The New Underground: How Conservatives Conquered the Internet will be available soon.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; california; copkilling; cops; graydavis; guncontrol; guns; gunsafety; johnlott; leaa; magazinedisconnect; michaelbloomberg; police; s253; sarahbrady; sb489; sheriff; tedkennedy; unsafeguns
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1 posted on 10/08/2003 4:03:52 PM PDT by Richard Poe
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To: Richard Poe
More damn idiocy from the California Left. Until just now, I was missing the place.
2 posted on 10/08/2003 4:09:27 PM PDT by Riley
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3 posted on 10/08/2003 4:11:05 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Richard Poe
This is just nuts, especially the loaded chamber indicator. If someone doesn't know enough not to point a firearm at someone (whether or not it's loaded), will they know enough to look at the indicator to see if there's a round in the chamber? Uh, no, they won't. And would you trust that indicator? Would you be foolish enough to point a firearm at somebody, just for "fun", and trust that indicator? Ooops, I thought it wasn't loaded.
4 posted on 10/08/2003 4:13:13 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: Richard Poe
Does anyone know of any handgun that fits the criteria of the law? Anyone?
5 posted on 10/08/2003 4:30:26 PM PDT by Sindarian (Love is the Law, Love under Will.)
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To: Richard Poe
Your One Stop Resource For All The California Recall News!

Want on our daily or major news ping lists? Freepmail DoctorZin

6 posted on 10/08/2003 4:33:29 PM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: .38sw
Sue the gun control crowd for every person hurt who could not defend themselves because they took away their constitutional right to bear arms. Bankrupt these organizations whether they are private or public entities. If they win, America goes to the first despot to gain control of the police and army. Then they will follow the bloody path of history’s infamous tyrants. Before we go that rout we need to build and refine a litigation machine to eat those B@st@rds up in court.
7 posted on 10/08/2003 4:36:40 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: Sindarian
Does anyone know of any handgun that fits the criteria of the law? Anyone?

Seems I had a Llama .380 semiauto that had a loaded chamber indicator. Seems my Browning Hi Power wouldn't fire unless the clip was inserted. But I don't think I've ever owned a handgun that had both.

8 posted on 10/08/2003 4:38:56 PM PDT by wheelgunguru
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To: Richard Poe
In other words, he wants to take away the double standard cops currently enjoy. Maybe when their CCW rights are stripped away they will look more favorably on ALL of us being allowed to carry. Police officers should not get special rights.
9 posted on 10/08/2003 4:39:42 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: .38sw
..and trust that indicator? Ooops, I thought it wasn't loaded.

That's the point of the law. If a weapon fires with a round in the chamber that is not "indicated", the firearm will be "defective". SB 489 is not about making firearms " safer", it is about keeping manufacturers from selling in California due to increased liability.

At the same time, well made "pre SB 489" firearms will be kept off or slowly removed from the CA-DOJ, "Safe Gun List", thus completing the de facto disarming of Californians.

10 posted on 10/08/2003 4:45:44 PM PDT by elbucko
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Richard Poe
My Springfield 1911 has a loaded chamber indicator, which I would NEVER rely on for determining if the gun has a round in the chamber. Of more concern is the idea of the gun being disabled if the magazine is removed. I was trained not to fire until slide lock; rather, fire all but one round and then change magazines. That way, there's a round "ready" and I can fire with the magazine removed should an opportunity/need present itself. This new law will indeed be a cop killer (and a killer of civilians defending themselves).
12 posted on 10/08/2003 4:59:01 PM PDT by sailor4321
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To: elbucko
Those privately owned pre-SB489 firearms will become quite valuable, won't they? Yes, the defacto disarming of Californians is continuing.
13 posted on 10/08/2003 5:03:46 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: *bang_list
Bang
14 posted on 10/08/2003 5:04:47 PM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: Sindarian
The model M2 Mauser has both features.

Mauser, the oldest name in semi-automatic pistols, is proud to introduce a pistol designed for personal protection for home defense or as a concealed carry for the private citizen at an affordable price.

The M2 by Mauser could arguably be called "the safest handgun on the market today". Several safety features are integrated into the M2's design. The pistol features a loaded chamber indicator on top of the slide, which provides a visual indication that a round is present in the firing chamber.

The pistol's magazine disconnect is designed to prevent the pistol from being fired with the magazine removed from the pistol, even if a live round remains in the chamber. The pistol is equipped with an automatic firing pin safety that will not release the firing pin unless the trigger has been pulled.

A disconnector prevents out of battery firing. The double-action only fire control system (in conjunction with the striker firing system) holds the striker at half cock which will not fire the cartridge should it be accidentally released. The manual external safety, located on the back of the slide, allows the owner to quickly observe if the handgun in is the safe mode while in the holster and can be quickly operated with the shooting hand.

Mauser M2 pistols are modern semi-automatic handguns complying with the latest technical advances in firearms design. They operate on the principle of mechanically half-cocked recoil loading with semiautomatic reloading. The manual safety catch, magazine catch and automatic firing pin ensure safe carrying of the pistol. After every shot the firing pin is automatically half-cocked and completely safe. The distinctive contrast sights in conjunction with the ergonomically favorable grip design permits rapid, precision target acquisition and firing.

Mauser M2 Technical Specifications:

Mechanical rotary-action bolt; Striker-fired (no hammer); Double-action only semiautomatic pistol; loaded chamber indicator, magazine safety disconnect, manual safety, available in .45 ACP, & .40 S&W calibers.

Each Mauser M2 pistol comes complete with green plastic hard carry case, trigger lock & 2 magazines.

The Mauser M2 is imported and distributed in North America exclusively by SIGARM

15 posted on 10/08/2003 5:14:57 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Sindarian
M2 Mauser

In .45 ACP and .40 S and W

16 posted on 10/08/2003 5:17:07 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Sindarian
Also chambered in .357 Sig


17 posted on 10/08/2003 5:19:40 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Sindarian
The Luger had a 'loaded' indicator a hundred years ago; I don't know if it had a magazine disconnector but it was a pretty common design feature on pistols meant for cavalry use. As I recall, the thinking was that it made it harder to accidentally shoot your horse while changing magazines at the gallop.
18 posted on 10/08/2003 5:25:12 PM PDT by Grut
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To: Sindarian
Bersa .380 also has both mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator


19 posted on 10/08/2003 5:26:46 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Pavlovs Dog
"Hear Hear! screw the cops, they aint nothing but people who chose a different career path, let them see how it feels!"

Crudley stated, but correct.

20 posted on 10/08/2003 5:26:48 PM PDT by tahiti
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To: Richard Poe
The law is totally idiotic, but its just one more step to the eventual banning of all guns not deemed by government to be "safe". But that's just what the morons in the Cal Legislature thought when they passed the equally stupid "gun drop test". Over 90% of the guns submitted to that little tax boondoggle passed and are now deemed "safe" by the Cal DOJ.

I predict that nearly all major gun manufacturers will adopt and engineer such features into their product lines soon, anyway. We live in a world dominated by lawyers and liability. The M2 Mauser, the Bersa .380 Thunderer, and even the Browning Hi-Power already have these features, although the Hi-power can be altered. I figure even the venerable Model of 1911 can be modified. The Springfield 1911A1 already has a new barrel with a loaded chamber viewing port cut into the top of the barrel hood. These barrels are a lot better quality then those used by Springfield only five years ago. Springfield also has a new key-operated hammer/trigger locking mechanism built into the mainspring housing. That little goody can be replaced in about five minutes of less with any one of a dozen or so after market units.

21 posted on 10/08/2003 5:36:12 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Pavlovs Dog
Hear Hear! screw the cops, they aint nothing but people who chose a different career path, let them see how it feels!

The cops that would be affected are those that are pro second amendment. Those cops that are against gun ownership could care less and many would love to give up their firearm so they wouldn't have to drag it around the street with them.

22 posted on 10/08/2003 5:44:56 PM PDT by Ajnin
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To: wheelgunguru
Mauser .32 automatic. Illegal to import (too small) and no longer made.
23 posted on 10/08/2003 6:25:10 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Richard Poe
If the people can't own it, by God the police shouldn't be able to either.
24 posted on 10/08/2003 6:53:40 PM PDT by CodeMonkey
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To: CodeMonkey
And vice cersa !
25 posted on 10/08/2003 7:37:48 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: xm177e2
"Police officers should not get special rights."

Concur. They can carry when I can carry.
26 posted on 10/08/2003 7:41:40 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: zip; BOBWADE
ping
27 posted on 10/08/2003 7:55:54 PM PDT by Mrs Zip
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To: Richard Poe
Keep up the good work. I find I usually learn something when I read your work.

Unfortunately, Davis isn't completely ousted yet. He's still in office and can do more damage until Arnold is sworn into office.
28 posted on 10/08/2003 7:59:16 PM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
"Sue the gun control crowd for every person hurt who could not defend themselves because they took away their constitutional right to bear arms. Bankrupt these organizations whether they are private or public entities. If they win, America goes to the first despot to gain control of the police and army. Then they will follow the bloody path of history’s infamous tyrants. Before we go that rout we need to build and refine a litigation machine to eat those B@st@rds up in court."

Unfortunately, I believe the gun control nuts can't be sued for exercising their free speech to advocate gun control.

And you can't sue the gov't for unconstitutional laws. The only things you can do is vote, volunteer on behalf of 2nd Amendment organizations and politicians who believe in the RKBA as well as donate money accordingly.


29 posted on 10/08/2003 8:10:47 PM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: Grut
The Luger had a 'loaded' indicator a hundred years ago; I don't know if it had a magazine disconnector but it was a pretty common design feature on pistols meant for cavalry use. As I recall, the thinking was that it made it harder to accidentally shoot your horse while changing magazines at the gallop.

No magazine *disconnector* [technically, in *interrupter*] on the Pistole model.08 Parabellum design from Georg Luger. But not only was the magazine disconnector meant for ground-force soldiers and police rather than cavalry or mounted Infantry, there was an early concern that the magizine-fed selfloading pistol was itself unsuitable for horse-mounted troops for fear that the magazinen could fall and be lost while reloading, turning the piece into a less useful single shot weapon. It was certainly not a positive feature that the inclusion of a magazine *safety* would further render the weapon absolutely useless.

Accordingly, early weapons and their magazines meant to be used from horseback were frequently found with lanyard loops on both pistol and magazine, and the practice of issuing a couple of spares *just in case* became common. Too, the stripper-clip fed C96 Mauser *broomhandle* remained in service longer with the Cavalty arm than in other issuing services and branches, despite its considerable bulk and weight- actually an asset aboard horseback. Even a young horse trooper named Winston Churchill obtained one of the big Mausers when he was a junior cavalry officer with the 21st Lancers, having damaged his arm to the point he couldn't use his saber. His account of using his C96 remains the first written account of the use of a semiauto pistol in a fight, more than a full century ago.

And one rode with me to work this morning, though I was not on horseback. A particular set of circumstances combined to make the big Mauser as useful for me today as it was for young Leftenant Churchill back then. I don't suppose I'll be taking it to California with me in the near future.

-archy-/-


30 posted on 10/08/2003 8:36:38 PM PDT by archy (Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: neverdem
Unfortunately, I believe the gun control nuts can't be sued for exercising their free speech to advocate gun control.

I grew up thinking smoking was an individual choice and responsiblity, so the tobacco companies were above responsibility.

I grew up thinking the safe use of guns were a personal responsibiliy.

I grew up thinking what you ate was a personal responsibility.

The socialists activists and socialists embedded in the judicial system have talked stupid juries into thinking otherwise.

If you want to undo the gains the socialists have made in the judical process you have to fight them on that battleground. Small numbners of these socialists have managed to sieze the process. You can vote all you want for the NRA but if you ignor the means the socialists are taking over, you are doomed.

31 posted on 10/08/2003 9:17:20 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: Sindarian
Suprise! smith and wessons have the magazine disconnect. Most of the loaded chamber indicators are also the extractor, on the outside of the slide, so they poke out if the chamber is loaded. of course this make them more susceptible to breakage.

Silly me, I was taught that "guns were always loaded".

If I ever get in a tussle with a goblin, one thing to try is to drop his magazine. The other thing to try is to put the web of your thumb beneath the hammer. (your thumb, not mine, that would hurt!)
32 posted on 10/08/2003 9:46:18 PM PDT by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy.)
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To: neverdem
Unfortunately, I believe the gun control nuts can't be sued for exercising their free speech to advocate gun control.

I believe he was speaking of those who *pass* unconstitutional gun control laws. Unfortunately, at least under the federal Constitution, and those state constitutions I'm aware of, you can't sue a legislator either for actions taken on the floor of the legislature.

And you can't sue the gov't for unconstitutional laws. The only things you can do is vote, volunteer on behalf of 2nd Amendment organizations and politicians who believe in the RKBA as well as donate money accordingly.

You most certainly can "sue" the government for unconstitutional laws, at least under some conditions. That what was done by the EFF some years ago in connection with the internet decency law (approximate title) and it's also just what the Silveira case is about with regards to the CA AW ban. You're not really sueing, you are asking for an injunction to prevent enforcement of the law and you can only do it if you can show a potential deprivation of rights, or potential arrest. Many times, most of the time with second amendment and tax cases, the courts won't allow it and insist that you break the law and take your chances, but not always. It's what make the Silveira case somewhat unique, non of the petioners are criminals, nor have they been charged with any crime.

33 posted on 10/08/2003 11:18:35 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: archy
is this the mauser that was used by the character in john waynes big jake... the youngest son i believe had it... and did han solo carry it in the original star wars...

teeman
34 posted on 10/09/2003 5:01:02 AM PDT by teeman8r (if one wishes to have one's tagline featured in the best of the best of taglines, one must plan ahea)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I'm well aware of left wing activists and their fellow travelers taking over the judiciary. I thought you were just referring to bankrupting gun control NGO's like Brady et al. by making them defend themselves in court, i.e. the reverse of their current attempt to bankrupt gun manufacturers with the cost of lawyers, etc.
35 posted on 10/09/2003 8:28:14 AM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: 45Auto
I predict that nearly all major gun manufacturers will adopt and engineer such features into their product lines soon, anyway.

How do they intend to do this with revolvers ?

36 posted on 10/09/2003 8:34:11 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Virtue untested is innocence)
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To: Richard Poe
More of the Clinton - Democrat Machine inspired Poison Pills... I pity Arnold. and pray that the good people who elected him will fight WITH HIM to undo this intentional Gray-Rat damage.
37 posted on 10/09/2003 8:59:32 AM PDT by Libertina (God Bless our proud troops and support their families!)
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To: Centurion2000
Revolvers are exempt.
38 posted on 10/09/2003 10:30:04 AM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Centurion2000
How do they intend to do this with revolvers ?

Revolvers aren't sexy enough for consideration at this time, only semi-autos. Though I understand every revolver has a built in magazine disconnect... :)
39 posted on 10/09/2003 10:39:56 AM PDT by kingu (I'll let the local police carry in my store the day they let me carry in their station.)
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To: Ajnin
I think you ignore a significant number of LEOs who think they should own or carry guns around and we citizens shouldn't. Many FBI and BATFE agents, for example.
40 posted on 10/09/2003 12:53:53 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: teeman8r
is this the mauser that was used by the character in john waynes big jake... the youngest son i believe had it...

Not quite. Per the movie script, that was purportedly a Borchardt, one of the earliest self-loading designs, with a Luger-like toggle action, circa 1893. The SFX/prp men used a dressed-up Walther P-38 as a standin for the real thing, as I recall, including scenes in which the pistol fired full-auto, not a feature of the real thing, but we might allow an exception for a possible prototype or *proof-of-concept8 design sample.

and did han solo carry it in the original star wars...

Han solo's *blaster* was indeed based on a broomhandle Mauser, though I believe his was built up on the shorter-barrelled *Bolo* model rather than the longer-barrelled C96. Darned if I can tell ya where he would have put the batteries on a 'broomie!


41 posted on 10/09/2003 2:30:10 PM PDT by archy (Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: .38sw
Those privately owned pre-SB489 firearms will become quite valuable, won't they?

Perhaps. More than likely, State Senator, Jack Scott will author a bill to make the possession of pre-SB489 firearms a felony. Think about it. That's the next step. These people aren't fooling around.

42 posted on 10/10/2003 10:32:54 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: Grut
As I recall, the thinking was that it made it harder to accidentally shoot your horse while changing magazines at the gallop.

That's true. The automatic sidearm was essentially designed for cavalry use with the safety of the horse in mind, such as the grip safety of the 1911.

What is insidious about all of this "Return to the Future" engineering by law, is that it is not intended to make guns safer, but to expose gun makers to product liability suits.

43 posted on 10/10/2003 10:43:43 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: 45Auto
Revolvers are exempt.

Perhaps. But there are a lot of Colt and S&W revolvers that you cannot but in CA because they are NOT on the CA-DOJ approved list. The Colt Detective Special being an example.

The agenda of Perata and Scott is not safety, that's the ball they have kept the eyes of the NRA and CRPA keep on, but the complete elimination of firearms in California.

44 posted on 10/10/2003 10:57:40 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: 45Auto
The law is totally idiotic, but its just one more step to the eventual banning of all guns not deemed by government to be "safe".

Almost right. What they're really after is:

but its just one more step to the eventual banning of all guns

45 posted on 10/10/2003 11:00:02 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: xm177e2
I fully agree. Here in New Jersey, which I think has probably worse laws than CA and MA I've experienced harassment from local police when applying for permits to purchase handguns.

A cop friend of mine who is pro 2nd amendment told me the mentality is "every gun off the streets is one less that can hurt me". The arrogance and superiority of SOME police officers is astounding.

Hopefully, now they'll realize that the 2nd amendment is for EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN!!!!

46 posted on 10/10/2003 11:19:11 AM PDT by NJ Freeper
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To: NJ Freeper
The arrogance and superiority of SOME police officers is astounding.

Yep they're the 98% that gives the other 2% a bad rep.

47 posted on 10/10/2003 11:27:23 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Richard Poe
Actually, I *prefer* gun bans that hit cops too. Let them suffer as well, why do they need to be special? The AWB pisses me off endlessly that "LEO"'s get the stuff us citizen slobs can't.
48 posted on 10/10/2003 11:28:42 AM PDT by Monty22
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To: Richard Poe
"What is next?" asks Lott. "Banning guns carried by on-duty officers?"

Precisely, as in the People's Republic of Albion
(formerly Great Britain - the guiding star of the leftist gun-grabbers).

49 posted on 10/10/2003 11:30:23 AM PDT by ZULU
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