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What Happened When The Worlds Most Famous Atheist Had A Near Death Experience.
National Post | March 3 2001 | William Cash

Posted on 02/04/2004 5:20:15 PM PST by catonsville

Did atheist philosopher see God when he 'died'? William Cash National Post March 3, 2001

"I haven't told this to anybody before," said Dr. Jeremy George, senior consultant in the Department of Thoracic Medicine at London University's Middlesex Hospital. On the table in front of him were the official hospital notes of "Sir Alfred Ayer, date of birth 29/10/10, of 51 York Street, London, W1." We were discussing the incident of June, 1988, when the eminent 77-year-old British philosopher, arguably the most influential 20th century rationalist after Bertrand Russell, famously "died" in London University Hospital. His heart stopped for four minutes when he apparently choked on a slice of smoked salmon smuggled in by a former mistress. Three months later, while recuperating at his house in the south of France, the atheist author of Language, Truth and Logic, whose more than 50-year career was devoted to ridiculing all metaphysical statements, especially all Christian doctrine, as nonsense, wrote a lengthy article for Britain's The Sunday Telegraph, titled What I Saw When I Was Dead, about his bizarre visit to the other side and how, as a humanist philosopher, it had affected his view of death.

Ayer's article, with his vivid memory of being pulled toward a red light, "exceedingly bright, and also very painful," his encounters with the "ministers" of the universe, and his frustration as he tried to "cross the river" -- which he presumed was the Styx -- bears a very curious resemblance to similar reports of near-death experiences recalled by 63 survivors of cardiac arrest at Southampton General Hospital, and published last week in the science journal Resuscitation.

Dr. Peter Fenwick. of the Institute of Psychiatry in London, a leading consultant who was involved in the findings, said the collected data is the first medical evidence that proves the mind can continue to exist after the body is clinically dead, and that a form of afterlife is now scientifically explainable. "Those who return all report that they have been changed," he said. "Those who were religious found their faith renewed. Those who had no faith often acquired at least a belief in some form of afterlife".

However, in his article Ayer concluded his experience had done nothing to weaken his belief that there is no God. In a second article, titled Postscript to a Postmortem, Ayer added a further denial that the experience had led him to alter his secularist view that "there is no life after death". Ayer, after all, had good reason to rebut any suggestion he had changed his atheist convictions. From the late 1940s, he had been employed by the BBC to take on such opponents as Hugh Montefiore, Bishop of Birmingham, and Jesuit priest Martin D'Arcy, a friend of Evelyn Waugh, and to broadcast his vigorously humanist views. But did intellectual pride induce Freddie -- as he was known to many -- to compromise his version of the truth of what really happened during the four minutes of his clinical death?

Last year, after I wrote a play for the Edinburgh Festival about Ayer's near death experience, I received a letter from Dr. Jeremy George, who had been senior registrar in charge of Ayer while he was in hospital. He told me he had some new information he thought I might find "very interesting."

Dr. George was the duty doctor when Ayer was first admitted on May 31, 1988, after falling seriously ill with pneumonia after a lunch at the Savoy. By a strange coincidence, Dr. George had been a student at New College, Oxford in the 1970s when Ayer was at the college as Wykeham Professor of Logic. Although he was not taught by Ayer, Dr. George had met him. When the young doctor saw this "crumpled heap in a corner of the private wing," he immediately recognized him as Britain's most celebrated living philosopher. "He was very pleased that somebody knew who he was" said Dr. George, "He looked very blue. His oxygen level was virtually incompatible with life." Dr. George gave Ayer emergency oxygen and put him immediately in the intensive care unit, where his condition improved. "He would not have survived the day. I was amazed how lucid he became. I think he made a joke in Latin."

During Ayer's week in intensive care, the nurses turned a blind eye to his private supply of smoked salmon in the unit fridge provided by an old lover who left him for Graham Greene in the early 1950s but remained a close friend. Indeed, the hospital staff had to put a ban on the number of his female visitors, among them his latest girlfriend, a married Canadian woman with whom he was planning an adulterous weekend in Paris the moment he was discharged.

In the early evening of June 6, Ayer later wrote, he "carelessly tossed" a slice of salmon down this throat. Choking as it went the wrong way down, he was clinically dead for four minutes. The hospital notes state: "cardiac arrest with bradycardia, and asystole, but was resuscitated". Having been alerted by the nurse, who administered emergency procedures, Dr. George looked down Freddie's throat. "I found a lot of secretions and sputum but the smoked salmon was a red herring. There wasn't any that I could see. But I suppose it made a better story". In order to ascertain whether Ayer had suffered any brain damage, Professor Spiro, the senior consultant, and Dr. George then had to subject Ayer to a general knowledge quiz to test his brain.

"I think we asked him who the prime minister was, and what day was it," said Dr. George. "The answers quickly shut us up. They were all correct. He blew us out of the water. There was absolutely no brain damage. He was very lucid. I think he wanted to be asked more questions, such as the name the players of the winning football team of the First Division. We had no idea if he was making them up or not, we just assumed he got them right."

That same day, having finished his rounds, Dr. George returned to Ayer's bedside. "I came back to talk to him. Very discreetly, I asked him, as a philosopher, what was it like to have had a near-death experience? He suddenly looked rather sheepish. Then he said, 'I saw a Divine Being. I'm afraid I'm going to have to revise all my various books and opinions.' "He clearly said 'Divine Being,'" said Dr. George. "He was confiding in me, and I think he was slightly embarrassed because it was unsettling for him as an atheist. He spoke in a very confidential manner. I think he felt he had come face to face with God, or his maker, or what one might say was God.

"Later, when I read his article, I was surprised to see he had left out all mention of it. I was simply amused. I wasn't very familiar with his philosophy at the time of the incident, so the significance wasn't immediately obvious. I didn't realize he was a logical positivist." "I am amazed," said his widow Dee Wells, after I related the extraordinary confession Dr. George had passed on to me.

Their son, Nick Ayer, who had been with his father in hospital throughout his illness, and had slept in Ayer's private room, was also silent for a second when I told him the story, and then added: "It doesn't sound like a joke. It sounds extraordinary. He certainly never mentioned anything like that to me. I don't know what to make of it. When he first came round after he was 'dead' he said nothing of any of this. Nothing at all."

Nick said that he had long felt there was something possibly suspect about his father's version of his near death experience. "All this stuff about crossing the River Styx -- it just sounds too good to be true. There was three months between his time in hospital and when he decided to write the article in France. He never mentioned any of that business once. And I was with him all the time. I always thought it sounded more like a dream." According to Freddie's article, his first recorded words after he came round in hospital were to exclaim to the audience gathered around his bed:

"You are all mad." But again, Nick Ayer has no recollection of ever hearing any mention of this until the piece appeared three months later. So can Ayer's memory or his own words really be trusted? Freddie always claimed he devoted his life to the pursuit of Truth. But as Dee Wells was quick to point out when I visited her at York Street, where she has continued to live since Freddie's death, the truth could rapidly become meaningless for Freddie when it happened to suit him -- with women, for example.

Certainly it does seem very odd that Ayer, in either of his two detailed articles, did not so much as mention his conversation with Dr. George about having to rewrite all his books and works; if only -- in his usual fashion -- to dispose of it with his usual logical clarity. According to Freddie, and his newspaper piece, the first conversation he remembered having was with his ex-lover Beatrice Tourot, who was sitting on his bed. They spoke in French, with Ayer saying: "Did you know that I was dead ? It was most extraordinary, my thoughts became persons."

Freddie was discharged from hospital on July 3, 1988. He died a year later, having remarried Dee Wells (who had been his second wife and then became his fourth). Despite declaring himself a "born-again atheist," his friends and family noticed that Freddie -- like the 63 patients interviewed for last week's report -- certainly seemed to change.

"Freddie became so much nicer after he died," said Dee. "He was not nearly so boastful. He took an interest in other people." Ayer also told the writer Edward St. Aubyn in France that he had had "a kind of resurrection" and for the first time in his life, he had begun to notice scenery. In France, on a mountain near his villa, he said, "I suddenly stopped and looked out at the sea and thought, my God, how beautiful this is ... for 26 years I had never really looked at it before."

What is also undeniably true -- and has never been reported on -- is that at the end of his life, Freddie spent more and more time with his former BBC debating opponent, the Jesuit priest and philosopher Frederick Copleston, who was at Freddie's funeral at Golders Green crematorium.

"They got closer and closer and, in the end, he was Freddie's closest friend," said Dee. "It was quite extraordinary. As he got older, Freddie realized more and more that philosophy was just chasing its own tail."


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There was another thread today about an athiest who had such a terrifying NDE that he later became a minister. I thought Freepers would be interested in the unusual experience of A. J. Ayers, the most famous atheist of the last half of the 20th century who also had such an experience and how it affected him. Ayers was a remarkable man ( the story hints at his unusual love life) in many ways. Philospher, developer of language theory, writer, poet and more. Even those who disagreed with him found him charming, kind and very likable. The debate still rages, did Ayers really change after his experience? I think so.
1 posted on 02/04/2004 5:20:17 PM PST by catonsville
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To: catonsville
Near-death is the key phrase. Nobody has returned from the dead since the resurrection of Christ. Unless you count ghosts who, technically, are still dead.
2 posted on 02/04/2004 5:29:11 PM PST by luvbach1 (In the know on the border)
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To: catonsville
Thanks for posting. I guess he never became a Christian after his near-death experience?
3 posted on 02/04/2004 5:29:12 PM PST by plain talk
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: luvbach1
Yes, there is such a thing as a near-death experience. Due to an accident in a hospital, I can vouch for the fact that the last human sense to fail, is hearing. I went into shock during a cat scan. My vision failed. My sense of touch failed. I heard the nurse say to the doctor, "BP 70 over 0." Those are not good numbers, LOL.

It is an interesting and remarkably detatched experience. I knew what was going on, and what the doctor was doing to snap me out of it. I thought it would work. Meanwhile, I was along for the ride. LOL.

Congressman Billybob

Click here, then click the blue CFR button, to join the anti-CFR effort (or visit the "Hugh & Series, Critical & Pulled by JimRob" thread). Don't delay. Do it now.

5 posted on 02/04/2004 5:44:58 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (www.ArmorforCongress.com Visit. Join. Help. Please.)
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To: catonsville
Descriptions of NDEs have been so widely published for so long that no 'testimony' of this sort can be regarded, on the basis of choosing the simplest explanation, as anything except a false memory induced by urban myth.

That said, accounts of NDEs from before they became so widely discussed do sound a lot like this.

6 posted on 02/04/2004 5:46:07 PM PST by Grut
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To: catonsville
Thank you for this thread, very interesting.

My favorite line, though, is, "Freddie became so much nicer after he died," said Dee."

7 posted on 02/04/2004 5:49:53 PM PST by xJones
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To: catonsville
"Freddie became so much nicer after he died,"

PLEASE DON'T PRAY FOR ME!

8 posted on 02/04/2004 5:53:04 PM PST by jaz.357 (Pacifism is the greatest tool in the hands of a faschist. - Mike Muir)
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To: Congressman Billybob
While I have never had a NDE, I have had experiences in my life that have me absolutely convinced that there is someone watching out for me.
9 posted on 02/04/2004 5:53:12 PM PST by Spruce (Football changed when the Vikes moved indoors.)
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To: luvbach1
Nobody has returned from the dead since the resurrection of Christ.

Um, Lazarus?

10 posted on 02/04/2004 6:00:41 PM PST by Aeronaut (In my humble opinion, the new expression for backing down from a fight should be called 'frenching')
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To: luvbach1
Dunno...agree for the most part but I have seen folks with no pulse, not breathing and with proper emergency care from first responders bring them back to pulse and breathing mode. NDE ? Dead ? Just almost dead ?

They were as close as I can figure ........Stay safe !

11 posted on 02/04/2004 6:01:12 PM PST by Squantos (Salmon...the other pink meat !)
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To: Squantos
I believe that's "Mostly Dead".
12 posted on 02/04/2004 6:03:09 PM PST by Spruce (Football changed when the Vikes moved indoors.)
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To: Aeronaut
Lazarus was raised before the crucifixion, wasn't he?
13 posted on 02/04/2004 6:13:14 PM PST by WinOne4TheGipper (This tagline was made in a Colombian sweatshop.)
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To: will1776
Lazarus was raised before the crucifixion, wasn't he?

Oops, I stand corrected. Sorry.

14 posted on 02/04/2004 6:14:57 PM PST by Aeronaut (In my humble opinion, the new expression for backing down from a fight should be called 'frenching')
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To: Aeronaut
If I remember my Bible correctly Lazarus was resurrected from the dead by Christ before Christ died and came back.
15 posted on 02/04/2004 6:15:15 PM PST by freemama
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To: Aeronaut
Nobody has returned from the dead since the resurrection of Christ.

Um, Lazarus?

Um, Lazarus was raised from the dead by Christ. I am assuming that Christ was alive at the time, hence "since" is correct.

16 posted on 02/04/2004 6:20:10 PM PST by mc5cents
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To: catonsville
I read a book by an agnostic Doctor who worked with terminally ill children.

She was converted to Christianity due to many of these children testifying that they had spiritual encounters with Christ before their deaths.

The book was wonderful and honest. Titled " A Window to Heaven".

17 posted on 02/04/2004 6:25:30 PM PST by Jorge
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To: Spruce
LOL.....Almost Almost !
18 posted on 02/04/2004 6:26:03 PM PST by Squantos (Salmon...the other pink meat !)
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To: catonsville
Is this NDE day? I just got through reading another thread on FR on the same subject. Paging Art Bell.
19 posted on 02/04/2004 6:31:57 PM PST by strongbow
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To: Aeronaut
I'm not joining the crowd to correct your time-line...
but I'll take a second to point folks to the parable of the rich man and
"the other Lazarus" in the sixteenth chapter of Luke.

That's a good one for folks thinkin' 'bout NDEs and mortality/death.
20 posted on 02/04/2004 6:38:17 PM PST by VOA
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To: catonsville
John 10 : 24-31
24: Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt?If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25: Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26: But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow after me.

26: And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

30: I and my Father are one

31: And then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.........


Faith is a gift of God....man is saved by grace..lest any man should boast
21 posted on 02/04/2004 6:49:45 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: luvbach1
Father Albert J. Hebert, S.M., "Raised From the Dead, True Stories of 400 Resurrection Miracles" (335pp.; TAN Books & Pub., 1986; Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur).

"Ti apiston krinetai par 'umin ei 'o Theos nekrous egeirei" --- Acts 26:8
22 posted on 02/04/2004 7:00:49 PM PST by Clausewitz
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To: Jorge
She was converted to Christianity due to many of these children testifying that they had spiritual encounters with Christ before their deaths.

Did Muslim or Jewish children see Christ? I suspect that these experiences trigger a "religious" part of the brain, for want of a better word. Now if she found that these children of other religions saw only Jesus, then it's time to re-evaluate my agnosticism.

23 posted on 02/04/2004 7:19:58 PM PST by Oatka
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To: catonsville
Deprive a brain of oxygen and it starts to imagine all sorts of wacked-out, crazy things. These patients (Ayers included) had experiences that were nearly identical to those of astronauts who passed out during high-G training. It doesn't pass muster for proof of an afterlife, just another example of the perceptual gymnastics that the brain is capable of.
24 posted on 02/04/2004 7:29:31 PM PST by Zeroisanumber
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To: Oatka
Did Muslim or Jewish children see Christ? I suspect that these experiences trigger a "religious" part of the brain, for want of a better word. Now if she found that these children of other religions saw only Jesus, then it's time to re-evaluate my agnosticism.

Many of them were neither Muslim, Jewish or Christian.
Their parents hadn't spoken to them about ANY religion EVER.

Some of them hadn't even told these children that Doctors had said they were terminally ill.

Yet shortly before their deaths they told their parents they had encounters with Jesus in dreams etc.(they named Him) where He told them they would die, or be going away, but not to be afraid because He was taking them with Him.

The stories were incredible. One child said that he had a dream where a school bus pulled up and the door opened and Jesus was on the bus. Jesus told him not to be afraid, that He would be coming back for him soon.
He told this story to his parents shortly before his death with a great sense of peace.
His parents had NEVER spoken to him about Jesus, or that fact that he was terminally ill.

This is just one example of the incredible stories this Doctor testifies converted her to Christianity.

25 posted on 02/04/2004 7:41:17 PM PST by Jorge
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To: Aeronaut
Nobody has returned from the dead since the resurrection of Christ. Um, Lazarus?

Christ had not been crucified when he raised Lazarus from the dead, so the statement is correct.

Nobody has returned from the dead since the resurrection of Christ.

26 posted on 02/04/2004 7:42:48 PM PST by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws and return DUE PROCESS to our citizens))
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To: catonsville
Do you have a link?

There was another thread today about an athiest who had such a terrifying NDE that he later became a minister.

27 posted on 02/04/2004 7:45:45 PM PST by GOPJ (MTV Flash --Grown men don't watch porn/whores with their mothers, wives, and children in the room)
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To: catonsville
Thank you very much for posting this! I have read much about A.J. Ayer and consider him the "purest" atheist I know about, in that he thought the very concept of God was preposterous. (This is in contrast to one of his fellow philosophers, Isaiah Berlin, who was an agnostic but wasn't opposed to others' believing in God.)

Your post fascinated me.
28 posted on 02/04/2004 7:55:00 PM PST by utahagen
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To: All
RE: "'religious' part of the brain"

Why would such a thing evolve?

I asked questions on the other thread that have long puzzled me. Why does the mind play these "tricks?" What's the point? Why did such a thing "evolve?" Other of our features evolved to help us survive. These matters happen when we die, way too late to have an effect on evolution.

My point is, IMO there is absolutely no reason for any of these experiences unless they are real.

Just as important I have a question about ghosts. Why aren't ghosts naked? Do clothes survive death?

29 posted on 02/04/2004 8:01:27 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: Zeroisanumber
RE: "nearly identical to those of astronauts who passed out during high-G training"

I know I could google and google but you seem to have the knowledge. Please provide some sources that describe the astronauts' experiences.

30 posted on 02/04/2004 8:06:14 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: Jorge
Heading off to Amazon.com to look for the book "A Window to Heaven", about the agnostic doctor who worked with terminally ill children.
31 posted on 02/04/2004 8:10:28 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: catonsville
bump to save
32 posted on 02/04/2004 8:11:31 PM PST by WKB (3!~)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Penn and Teller did a show on HBO a while ago called "Bullsh*t: With Penn and Teller" which went through the science of NDE's. I was a little curious, so I double checked and found that what they presented was borne out by the facts. It makes sense when you think about it, and a quick google for "Near death experiences + skepticism" will give you all the literature you might want on the subject.
33 posted on 02/04/2004 8:13:20 PM PST by Zeroisanumber
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To: strongbow
Is this NDE day? I just got through reading another thread on FR on the same subject.

After the Janet Jackson shockarama, maybe we're all finding religion?!

34 posted on 02/04/2004 8:13:30 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz
Heading off to Amazon.com to look for the book "A Window to Heaven", about the agnostic doctor who worked with terminally ill children.

The author is Diane M. Komp, M.D.
She says she was an unbeliever who would "require the testimony of reliable witnesses" if she were ever to believe in God.

Her "reliable witnesses" appeared in the suffering lives of children she treated.
They lead her to believe in Christ. Her book is short, but powerful.

35 posted on 02/04/2004 8:21:38 PM PST by Jorge
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To: catonsville
Clinton OD'd on crack?
36 posted on 02/04/2004 8:22:56 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: luvbach1
"Nobody has returned from the dead since the resurrection of Christ."

Absolutely not true. Ever hear of a missionary in the mountains of Mexico named David Hogan?

Listen to.......or better yet, watch........one of his seminars some time. You'll be speechless.

37 posted on 02/04/2004 8:31:07 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: dighton; general_re; Thinkin' Gal
"I found a lot of secretions and sputum but the smoked salmon was a red herring."

Fishy sentence ping.

38 posted on 02/04/2004 8:39:38 PM PST by aculeus
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To: Zeroisanumber
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I was hoping that you'd have a source for the experiences like "those of astronauts who passed out during high-G training."

There's a show called "Bullsh*t" on TV?!

I'm glad I threw my TV out ten years ago.

39 posted on 02/04/2004 8:47:09 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: JackRyanCIA
Most people that have NDE or OBE seldom talk about it.

I can't imagine why not. I had an experience under ether when I was 10 that is similar to some of the NDE descriptions. I can still see some of the images 40 years later. It never occured to me that this was a religious experience.

40 posted on 02/04/2004 8:47:43 PM PST by js1138
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To: catonsville
read later
41 posted on 02/04/2004 8:51:13 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Grut
That said, accounts of NDEs from before they became so widely discussed do sound a lot like this...twenty years or so ago I was doing some counselling with a couple, both of whom were of limited intellect. The woman in fact had spent some time in an institution for the retarded, although whether she was really at that level of intelligence or more likely a "burned-out" psychotic was never clear. In any event she was not the type who spent much time if any reading or watching TV any more informative than the typical soap opera. But one day she recounted the story of how she had once been in a terrible automobile accident and was taken to an emergency room where she had to be resuscitated. And she included in her tale the most common elements of the NDE - rising from her body, seeing herself on the treatment table, and seeing a bright light far away toward which she felt drawn. She insisted that this had actually happened to her, and given her limited intellectual capacity I have trouble believing that she had read or heard this somewhere and would have been able to recall it in such detail. Sure has made me wonder.....
42 posted on 02/04/2004 9:17:14 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
There may be no need to google search, let alone go to the stacks of the med school library. Merely read the article in Readers Digest about NDE's. The article describes how a reduction of blood flow to the left parietal area of the brain induces "the religious experience".

43 posted on 02/04/2004 9:22:34 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles - -)
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To: Aeronaut
Lazarus was raised BEFORE Christ's Death and Resurrection which act was in part, responsible for the envy that drove the officials of that day to do the murderous deed... to Jesus.

HOWEVER. After the Ascension.
Peter raised "dorcas" in the book of Acts... a few years afterwords.
Paul also raised a guy who had died from a third story tumble during a LONG, HOT tiring sermon.

Some folks believe it. Others don't.


44 posted on 02/04/2004 9:37:06 PM PST by eccl1212 ( "anybody else wanna negotiate?")
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To: Aeronaut
tHAT WAS PRIOR.

There is a senior pastor in Mexico who will not even consider a candidate for a branch church until that candidate has a SERIES OF BONAFIDE RESURRECTIONS under his belt.

And I remember the story in China of a peasant woman who had a simple faith in God and her dead husband was laid out by her and relatives beside the road where the woman preached the gospel for 3 days including that her husband would be resurrected. And he was.

And Billy Graham checked out some such in Indonesia decades ago and concluded that the reports were credible.

Nevertheless, we will live to see such even on CNN and in a small town and large city and perhaps relatives and friends near you.

Resurrections will become virtually common place in our era.

Given the death that will be more common, they will be a source of HOPE in THE RESURRECTION.
45 posted on 02/04/2004 9:37:44 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Jorge
I work in a nursing home. This is the last stop for these poor old souls before they go to the great beyond.

So I have been around many who were dying. I remember one lady on one of her last nights on earth reaching for the ceiling and saying "Pull me over, please pull me over."

My mother died in the hospital. She was riddled with cancer in her abdomen. The nurses told my sister that she asked them if she could leave now on the morning of her death.

46 posted on 02/04/2004 9:38:39 PM PST by 3catsanadog (When anything goes, everything does.)
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To: Oatka
YES, MANY

MUSLIMS,
HINDUS,
BUDDHISTS,
ATHEISTS,
AGNOSTICS,
ANAMISTS,
SECULARISTS,
MATERIALISTS,

ETC.

HAVE SEEN THE RISEN CHRIST AND CONVERTED ON THEIR RETURN TO THIS LIFE.

Many saw Christ who had never heard anything about him at all. They knew in their NDE experience He was God's Son and by Him they received Salvation. But they had never heard anything about Him before their NDE.
47 posted on 02/04/2004 9:41:32 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Zeroisanumber
You can read a LOT of stuff on it without getting the

BALANCED

picture from comprehensive research on it.
48 posted on 02/04/2004 9:43:45 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: RightOnline
tHANKS.

I think he's at least connected with the Mexican head pastor I've heard of.
49 posted on 02/04/2004 9:44:41 PM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Aeronaut; will1776
Lazarus was raised before the crucifixion, wasn't he?
Oops, I stand corrected. Sorry.



The difference is Lazarus went on to die again.
Jesus did not. He lives for ever more.
50 posted on 02/04/2004 9:53:14 PM PST by WKB (3!~)
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