Author Claims To Debunk Rapture Theory Popularized By 'Left Behind'

Agape Press ^ | May 5, 2004 | By Allie Martin

[Seven_0]

Matthew 24:40, up until a rapture was proffered, was thought to be refering to the second coming of Christ. I don't know when it happened but sometime during the 20th century, many Christians began to associate this verse with the Rapture.

This idea did not come from Darby, who was credited with the Rapture doctrine. Grant associates the verse with the second coming. Scofield does not seem to be concerned, as he may not have anticipated a problem.

Compare Matthew 24:38-40 with Revelation 14:14-20. In Matthew, the unbelievers are taken(vs.39), but in Revelation, the unbelievers are left behind.

This needs an explaination.

[HarleyD]

"I remember reading Revelations many times when I was younger - it was completely incomprehensible to me."

Woah! A person after my own heart. I could never understand all that end times stuff.

[Quix]

My feeling, too.

[Quix]

I still feel The Lord has not made it abundantly clear to anyone. And, that He's not likely to make it ALL clear to any ONE person.

He seems to have set it up that we NEED ONE ANOTHER and to relate to each other in His Love, patience, forebearance, etc. contributing our puzzle pieces toward understanding.

I doubt it's quite time for Him to have even His Church understand that much about those events. I think He's a good general playing His key cards close to His chest.

One has the impression with some verses that Revelations is supposed to be easy enough for a child to understand. I suppose in some respects--like GOD WINS, it is. But in terms of symbolism vs literal vs sequence vs timing . . . that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, imho.

[Quix]

Some variation on the Rapture can be traced back to the early church.

I personally think those denying the possibility of any such thing are more likely to fall for the Great Deception.

And, I still believe the Great Deception will likely have something to do with UFO's, ET's and the NWO.

[Quix]

I gave up a firm conviction about The Rapture decades ago. But your point is one of the main ones I still hold out some significant hope that it's true.

It seems to me God would protect His people by taking them out before His utter wrath on the world. That seems to me to be at least before the last 3.5 years of The Great Tribulation.

But what do I know. AS the saying goes, I know it will pan out in the end. Christ promised to be with me regardless and to take me to be eternally with Him. That's the key issue.

[Quix]

Sharing in Jesus' suffering as the Bible mentions is very different from sharing in God's wrath.

[Teleosis]

Compare Matthew 24:38-40 with Revelation 14:14-20. In Matthew, the unbelievers are taken(vs.39), but in Revelation, the unbelievers are left behind.

This needs an explaination.
____________________________________________________

First, the assumption you have here in Matthew that these are unbelievers is not founded in the language the Apostle uses. The same word for taken, is also the word used for when someone receives Christ as their Savior.

Rapture verbs—the general English meanings of the Greek words used:

• MT 24:31 to come upon, come after
• MT 24:40 to take over, to receive, to inherit
• MK 13:27 to come upon, come after
• MK 16:19 to carry up
• LK 9:51 a taking up: ascension
• LK 17:34-35 to take over, to receive, to inherit
• LK 24:51 to take up, raise
• AC 1:9-11 to lift up
• 1CO 15:51-54 to change
• 2CO 4:14 to waken, to raise up
• 2CO 12:2-4 to seize, to catch up, to snatch away
• 1TH 4:16-17 to seize, to catch up, to snatch away
• 2TI 2:18 (resurrection) a standing up, a raising up, rising
• 1TI 3:16 to take up, raise
• HEB 11:5 to transfer, change
• REV 12:5 to seize, to catch up, to snatch away

Now when you get to Revelation, you have to understand how the book by John is constructed. He uses parallel accounts to cover the myriad events. This makes Revelation difficult to read because the general rule of linearity in the Bible is punctuated with overlapping timelines. You cannot read through Revelation like a novel! To look for parallel construction, look for discernable breaks when John changes both scene and focus.

Now the section you have referenced starts in Rev 13:1 and goes through the end of chapter 16. Chapter 13 describes the rise of the Antichrist during the first half week. Notice the call once again for the believers at verse 13:10b: "This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints." This repeats other admonishments to 'keep the faith,' or "stand firm." (I would advance the idea that a systematic review of 'chosen,' 'elect,' and 'saints' are how the Bible does refer to Christian believers even though we don't like to use those titles for ourselves.)

The change at chapter 14 shows the same type of opposing sides as found in Daniel 9:27 to each half week of the seventieth 'seven.' Like Jesus' Olivet Discourse in the Synoptic Gospels, you have another sequence of events laid out in linear fashion.

• Jesus arriving on Mt Olives returning as He went
• The 144,000
• 3 Angels, the first of which fulfills the Great Commission Jesus said would come before the end in Matthew 24:14
• A proscription praising those “left behind” and martyred for God (at least two – which completes the fifth Seal)
• The Harvest of souls

Now about the Harvest.

First of all, it should be established as an underlying principle that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven (1CO 15:50) but our earthly body will be changed into a spiritual body albeit physical (1CO 15:44). And while most will be raised from the dead and they get to go first (1TH 4:16) some will be caught up that are still alive and are left (1 CO 15:51; 1TH 4:17).

However, does God need our physical earthly bodies? Not in Heaven as from rule one. God doesn’t need them; we are going to be changed after all in a twinkling of an eye (1CO 15:52). And since most of the great Multitude will be raised from the dead, 90-99% of all the souls will not have physical bodies to part with as they been dead so long as to have decayed to nothingness. However, God will raise up the dead imperishable (1CO 15:42). So it follows that He does need to recreate their flesh and blood in order to change it into the spiritual body. The soul goes from Paradise directly into the new spiritual body.

But what about those that are still alive and are left? What happens to their bodies? Well if God can raise those that are physically gone directly into their spiritual bodies as with most of the chosen, does God need our flesh and blood for Him to change it? No. We have just proved that with those asleep in Christ. The change we are to undergo does not have to change flesh and blood into something spiritual, but can also be a direct transference into the spiritual body we will have.

This asks a question about what happens to the flesh and blood we leave behind, because while we know that our bodies can’t inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, we will. This does tend to give us a scenario whereby the events foretold by Christ in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation could be fulfilled. Since we know that some will not die, how is it that Jesus answers where the living will be taken by describing them as dead bodies? Well we have already established that one, some of us will not die, and two He does not need flesh and blood to create a spiritual body, why does He describe in Luke where we will be taken will have dead bodies?

Those that are still alive and are left could leave lifeless bodies behind, because God doesn’t need that part. He will prepare our imperishable and immortal bodies, and all that is required is our soul. Thus, this taking of our souls out of our flesh and blood bodies would not be like experiencing death, and we will all be changed, but we will not all die. In a manner of speaking, Jesus told the disciples where they would physically go, because at that time no one knew where He had come from and where He was going.

Now we have to ask, what happens to our bodies that we no longer need? Well think how this will affect the unbelieving world which will be 99% of those left behind. (Some still are martyred in Christ after the Rapture to complete the fifth Seal.) They have been terrified by a great earthquake, the sun/moon/star event and maybe even a second earthquake with the scrolling of the sky. These people who worship the beast from the greatest to the least are cowering and crying out for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from God. Now in just one day, the harvest comes, and no retribution falls upon them from the terrible God in the sky, but lo and behold, the next day, here are all these lifeless bodies without a mark on them, some in the prime of health.

And the world will realize these are the people they have been persecuting, and that these people who looked to the Lord for Salvation seemingly have been slaughtered by the millions. Think of the fear this would send into the world of the God they’re afraid of but won’t worship. And, this would be the greatest one-time occurrence of death since the Great Flood.

Now one of two things could happen or be done in tandem. God could terrorize them further, and press the bodies and make the blood flow. He’s going to turn all the sea, water and springs to blood before he’s through anyway, so having blood flow this deep for a couple of hundred miles is just a little taste of things to come. In such an occurrence, carrion birds certainly will flock there. It could happen; we have already established he doesn’t need the bodies of flesh and blood. Or the world will have to do something with what will be the world’s greatest sanitation problem. They will have to collect the bodies and dispose of them, in which case you can expect carrion birds to gather around that process too.

At any rate, we as the Church should not be alarmed. I for one, don’t need this old body wracked with ailments and infirmaries and would gladly exchange it for a heavenly body and wouldn’t care less what happens to the discarded model.

Furthermore there is also evidence in the Old Testament about the Rapture. One that succinctly uses the Harvest analogy is contained in Amos: (from the NIV)

AM 8:1 This is what the Sovereign LORD showed me: a basket of ripe fruit. 2 "What do you see, Amos?" he asked.
"A basket of ripe fruit," I answered.
Then the LORD said to me, "The time is ripe for my people Israel; I will spare them no longer.

AM 8:3 "In that day," declares the Sovereign LORD, "the songs in the temple will turn to wailing. Many, many bodies--flung everywhere! Silence!"

If it offends you that God would discard your body, (read John 6:61) think how offensive it will be to the world - and they reject God, so be careful in what you take offense to. However, to put the whole of the Bible into a systematic review there are too many references that point to just this. The conclusion I have reached is that this Harvest is a harvest of souls, because the flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, as Jesus said in John 6:63 that "the flesh counts for nothing."

[dangus]

*ALL* suffering is the result of mankind's fall. By suffering for righteousness' sake, we share in the act of redemption. Jesus took apon himself the wrath of God to spare his brothers.

[Quix]

AGREED.

[topcat54]

Whatever. If He comes back before the tribulation, I'm out of here.

Of course if there is no future "great tribulation", then Christians have nothing to fear. (Not that we have anything to fear anyway.)

Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matt. 23:36)

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. (Matt. 24:34)

Jesus consistently used the phrase "this generation" to refer to His contemporary Jewish hearers. Futurists ignore all these passages and push the "great tribulation" centuries into the future.

[ChevyZ28]

I believe the Bible is clear, there will still be Christians on earth during the tribulation. The Book of Revelation describes the execution of Christians who refuse to take the mark of the beast. However, I don't think anyone can conclusively say that some Christians would not be raptured prior to the tribulation.

[ChevyZ28]

"In reality it doesn't matter - pre / mid / post - you better be ready!"

Here in lies the simplicity of the Truth of the Bible. Be ready or be hot!!!

[tessalu]

All of the bible verses rightly fit together.

[Seven_0]

"Compare Matthew 24:38-40 with Revelation 14:14-20. In Matthew, the unbelievers are taken(vs.39), but in Revelation, the unbelievers are left behind.

This needs an explaination."

You make it too difficult. My question is, How can these two passages be talking about the same event?

Mattew 24:38-40 says that the days will be like the days of Noah. You might argue that Noah was taken away by the flood, but it is hard to argue that he did not know what was going on. Therefore, those taken, were taken in judgement. In Rev.14, those that were left behind, were judged.

[Seven_0]

"In reality it doesn't matter - pre / mid / post - you better be ready!"

Here in lies the simplicity of the Truth of the Bible. Be ready or be hot!!!

If it has pleased God to give us the answers to these questions, should we tell him, it doesn't matter? Surely Scripture is full of truth that is yet to be discovered.

[Teleosis]

“You make it too difficult. My question is, How can these two passages be talking about the same event?”
______________________________________________________

They are the same because they describe the same timeline but from different perspectives; one from an earthly perspective, and the other from a heavenly perspective. In Matthew’s account, Jesus laid out a sequence of events starting with 1. the Abomination of Desolation, 2. the Great Distress, 3. the sun/moon/star event and then 4. the Gathering concluding in Matthew 24:31.

The section after this up to Mt 25:31, Jesus extrapolates upon the gathering. In His extrapolation (up to the parables starting in 24:45), the first example is of the fig tree. It is possible to know when the fruit is ripe. Indeed, this very passage (Mt 24:15-31) allows us to place that gathering after the midweek point of Daniel 9:27. It also allows us to tie the Seal chronology of Revelation to Daniel’s seventieth ‘seven’ for the first time based on the unique sun/moon/star event. So we the believing Church can know IT is near.
________________________________________________________

“Mattew 24:38-40 says that the days will be like the days of Noah. You might argue that Noah was taken away by the flood, but it is hard to argue that he did not know what was going on. Therefore, those taken, were taken in judgement. In Rev.14, those that were left behind, were judged.”
_______________________________________________________

This is part of the extrapolation. The warning to the Church is NOT to be caught unaware. The sinful of Noah’s time were unaware. The sinful of the end time are likewise ignorant of what is going on. They do not even know that when the Day of the Lord comes that it is NOT for them. They think it is their end. It is not. That is what Revelation 6:15-17 is all about. The Lord’s wrath does not come at that time. More than one commentator has made the assumption that is when the Day of the Lord’s Wrath comes because it is the first mention of it in Revelation. However, to put it into context you have to look to whom John says is saying it. They are the unsaved, and they are mistaken.

Remember also, that this is part of the explanation of the “gathering of the elect.” They are not going into Judgment like the world will be judged (although the saints will be judged as well, it is not like how the goats will be judged because the believers have the saving grace of Christ Jesus to wash their robes clean). Matthew has an added section when compared to Mark and Luke with one of two being taken. This word comes from the Greek in its transliteration: paralambano.

The compound has such senses as “to take over,” e.g., a position, and “to inherit,” especially intellectual things, e.g., a student from a teacher…With a personal object the term is used for the reception of Christ by the world (Jn 1:11) and for acceptance into the kingdom of Christ (Jn 14:3; Mt. 24:40-41).—Theological Dictionary of the New Testament p.496-7.

Jesus gives us this discourse a glimpse of how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man, in Matthew’s account with this definition of the Greek it would also be safe to say that he typifies it as being taken over, where the Church will inherit their portion of the Kingdom of Heaven.

P.S. How do you italize, bold face and change color and font size on this board?

[Seven_0]

"P.S. How do you italize, bold face and change color and font size on this board?"

BTW, welcome to FR. I don't get to fancy with html. Here is a link to try for help.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1011945/posts

Thanks for the post, I'll look at it more after work.

Seven

[The_Reader_David]

Actually the 'rapture' hasn't been debated for centuries, perhaps a century and a half tops. It is purely a recent protestant invention. No father of the Church read the texts used to support the rapture in the way any school of protestants do.

The uniform understanding of the texts by all Christians until the mid 19th century was that they described the experience those alive at the time of the General Resurrection will have. This is still the teaching of the Holy Orthodox Church on the matter.

[Teleosis]

Actually the 'rapture' hasn't been debated for centuries, perhaps a century and a half tops. It is purely a recent protestant invention.

?

I guess this is why the Thessalonians thought it had already occurred.

The point here is not whether it has been debated, but a clear and consistent reading of all the end time prophecy because things are lining up as they have never lined up before in history.

Israel is now in existence after nearly 1900 years. The capability exists for the False Prophet to cause "fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men." The 20th century, besides killing more in war than the previous 19 combined, has brought into play -war- on a truly global scale. And China boasts an army of hundreds of millions.

After much study, I am of the opinion that the first four Seals have already been opened. The rise in animal crossover diseases and insect borne diseases along with drug resistant bacteria and new strains of viruses like HIV which causes AIDS (which has decimated Africa and is on the increase in other parts of the world) is evidence for the fourth horseman. This is a fitting combination of plague and having wild beasts do the killing.

I think we are witnessing the formation of the third beast of Daniel. The Church of Laodicea is plainly evident as mainstream Christianity tries to deal with modern Western culture. With the war on terror, battle lines are being drawn that divide the world into North and South, between the developed countries and the Muslim world. Even old adversaries are united as witnessed by the unprecedented cooperation between the CIA, M-5 and what was the KGB to capture a rogue Muslim arms merchant last year. The Israelites have built a wall in Jerusalem (which figures in specific end-time prophecy) and they have found the red heifers they need for the sacrifice under the Law.

There are more things needed to occur before we are propelled into the seventieth 'seven,' which is only defined to start with the elusive Middle East Peace treaty, but events are coming along nicely inline with Jesus' conditions for the end times. I think these conditions have to be present and for people to become acclimated to them before the Antichrist can exert his power and in doing so, gain the respect of the world. But still, the end is not yet. As Jesus said, they are only the beginnings of birth pains.

My concern from my study is that the 60% that think the "Left Behind" series' pre-Trib position is Biblically correct, may be sorely tested when they are faced with oppression from the Demonic. To them, I say: stand firm, or more properly; keep the faith. If you try to save your life, you will lose it, but if you lose your life you will gain it for eternity. Fear not those that can destroy your body, but the One that can destroy both body and soul.

From Jesus’ Olivet Discourse a point for the Church needs to be brought out. It is the instruction in each synoptic Gospel account to "stand firm." This command is repeated twice in Revelation to "endure patiently." The verb for stand firm or endure patiently is hupomeno. The idea of standing firm in the English of being adamant in resolve, or steadfast, does not have a basis in the Greek. Rather this word means to stay behind, to await or endure. Instead of having an iron will as a new basis for salvation, Jesus words are communicated in terms of patiently waiting, or to endure. In a theological context, the admonition is not to stray from the faith in Him. This removes salvation from an individual’s will to faith in God, and so Paul’s preaching that only by faith are we saved is inline with Christ’s words.