Posted on 07/21/2004 7:23:09 AM PDT by Mershon
Exclusive interview with His Excellency Bishop Fellay : "We are firm, but not unreachable." 19/7/2004
Summary : Last May, the "Latin Mass" Magazine published an interview of Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, head of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei. The integral text of this interview is available in the Documents section. His Excellency Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, was kind enough to answer the questions of DICI regarding the proposals made by the Cardinal in favor of Tradition in his interview.
DICI: In this interview for the Latin Mass magazine, Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos does more than just stretch out a hand to the faithful attached to Tradition, he affirms that the Holy Father holds his arms open. Aren’t you touched by such a generous offer? Bishop Fellay: I am very much touched by this gesture and do not doubt the generosity behind it. But I have to remark, at the same time, that the cardinal minimizes as much as he can the real difficulties which exist on both sides. On the side of the local bishops, he only wants to see "confusion" and "hesitations" to acknowledge the "right of citizenship" of the Tridentine Mass, whereas there is a real opposition to the traditional doctrine on the Holy Sacrifice. To be convinced of this, you merely have to look at the very reserved reactions of the bishops to the recent disciplinary document Redemptionis sacramentum. Apparently, nobody is interested in this call to order! There are neither abuses, nor liturgical scandals! And as for the faithful of Tradition, Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos only acknowledges that they have a specific "sensibility" and a "perception" all their own, whereas it is really a question of fidelity to the doctrine of the Church of all times. All these euphemisms indicate the diplomacy of the cardinal, but they do not succeed in hiding his embarrassment: how can he solve the painful situation of the Society of Saint Pius X without raising the doctrinal issues? Honestly, if it were only a matter of dissipating the "confusion" of the bishops and of acknowledging the legitimacy of the traditionalist "sensibility", I believe that the crisis would have been solved long ago. But what is at stake goes far beyond the realm of confusion and sensibility.
DICI: Aren’t you afraid of appearing mired in an attitude which is constantly critical and negative? Bishop Fellay: On the contrary, ever since the beginning of our conversations with Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos, we have been making positive proposals. But we must be sure, first of all, that the pillars holding up the bridge between Rome and us are sturdy. These pillars are doctrinal. We cannot be silent on this reality without the risk that – sooner or later – all our efforts for a solution will fail. The solution of the cardinal is to propose a practical agreement, minimizing fundamental differences as much as possible. Is it possible? Can cordial words stave off the hard blows of the crisis which shakes the Church? I do not think so.
DICI: So for you, it is doctrine, integral doctrine, or nothing? Doesn’t this position of "all or nothing" lack realism? Bishop Fellay: We are firm but not unreachable. Doubtless doctrine is fundamental, but we do think there are some preliminary stages to go through. That is the reason why, from the very beginning, we proposed two preliminary conditions to the Roman authorities. These conditions would make it possible to create an atmosphere of confidence which would be favorable to solving the problem of Ecône. These conditions are: the withdrawal of the decree of excommunication against the bishops of the Society and the acknowledgment of the right for every priest to celebrate the traditional Mass.
DICI: How do you see this withdrawal of the excommunication? Bishop Fellay: What has been done for the Orthodox could be done a fortiori for us. Rome lifted the excommunication against them without their changing anything in their attitude towards the Holy See. Could they not adopt the same measure toward us who have never been separated from Rome and have always acknowledge the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff, as defined by Vatican Council I? Indeed, the four bishops consecrated in 1988 took the oath of fidelity to the Holy See, and ever since they have always professed their attachment to the Holy See and the Sovereign Pontiff. They took all kinds of dispositions in order to show that they had no intention of creating a parallel hierarchy. I recalled this again in my press conference in Rome on February 2nd. This withdrawal of the decree of excommunication would create a new atmosphere, indispensable for going any further. Among other things, it would enable the persecuted priests and faithful to see that their attachment to Tradition is no fault, but that it was motivated by all these grievous liturgical scandals which Redemptionis sacramentum very rightly points out without, however, considering their cause, which is undoubtedly the liturgical reform itself.
DICI: And you ask for this withdrawal unilaterally, without obliging yourself to grant anything in return? Bishop Fellay: If the decree of excommunication were withdrawn, the bishops of the Society of Saint Pius X could go to Rome, just like the diocesan bishops for their ad limina visit. They would give an account of their apostolic work, and the Holy See could observe the development of the "experience of Tradition" which Archbishop Lefebvre always desired to make for the good of the Church and of souls. There would be no need of any further commitment. It would simply be a matter of giving an account, on the part of the Society, and of taking stock, on the part of Rome, of the development of the experience of Tradition.
DICI: Do you not feel that you have been heard at least as far as your second preliminary request is concerned, i.e. the acknowledgment of "the right of citizenship" of the Tridentine Mass? Bishop Fellay: I cannot help but approve the praiseworthy effort of Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos to rehabilitate the Mass, but there also, I can only see a certain embarrassment: a right of citizenship conceded by the Holy Father, is it a right or a concession? The difference is not slight. We do not want to be granted a specific status which would be the hallmark of some liturgical "specificity". We are asking for a right which has never been lost: the freedom of the Mass for everybody. Because what we are attached to is the common patrimony of the Roman Catholic Church.
DICI: Even if you are not opposed to a dialogue with Rome, you nevertheless give the impression of practicing a "wait and see" policy. Do you not think it is time to get out of this marginalized position and commit yourself now, as they invite you to, in order to be more fruitful in the very serious situation in which the Church finds itself? Bishop Fellay: The position of the Society is not wait and see, but rather ora et labora, pray and work! Our priests are working for the restoration of the reign of Our Lord daily, with the families, the schools, etc. These 450 priests are more than committed, they are overworked. Everywhere in the world, people are asking for them. We would need three times as many! What would really marginalize us would be a concession closing off Tradition in a kind of Indian reservation or enclave within the Church. In truth, it is our concern for fruitfulness at the service of the Church and of souls which obliges us to request a true liberty for Tradition. The present state of the Church and the world is too serious for us to convince Rome that with a mere traditional "sensibility" (one that is strictly monitored) we could truly fight against the "silent apostasy" denounced by John-Paul II in Ecclesia in Europa. It would be altogether dishonest. But the Roman authorities, if they want to, can give back to Tradition its "right of citizenship" everywhere and for everyone.
By doing what? I conduct the Penitential Rite, prepare the Gifts, read the Gospel, preach, hold up the chalice at the "To Him, with Him, and In Him.." just prior to the Our Father, prepare the Eucharistic cups, dismiss the assembly.
That's plenty to do.
Subdeacons do nothing at a Solemn Mass but stand by and look pretty.
I attend and support the TLM. That said, I have to say you may not understand the duties of the Deacon at the NOM. They have specific tasks whose content has been clearly described by the magisterium: "To assist the bishop and priests in the celebration of the divine mysteries, above all the Eucharist, in the distribution of Holy Communion, in assisting at and blessing marriages—if they are delegated by the ordinary or the parish priest (cf. Canon 1108.1)—in the proclamation of the Gospel and preaching, in presiding over funerals and in dedicating themselves to the various ministries of charity" (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1570; cf. Lumen Gentium, 29; Sacrosanctum Concilium, 35; Ad Gentes, 16).
Not true! They assist by saying the responses that the altar boys normally say at a Low Mass, and they hold the paten throughout the Canon of the Mass.
So, they're basically altar boys with better vestments?
Thank you for this. Having attended daily Mass for several years now, and with a master's degree in theology, I am well aware of the many duties of an ordained deacon. I just wish more deacons didn't think of themselves as laymen. Perhaps then, instead of allowing "extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion" to distribute the chalice during daily Mass, they would instead do it as "ordinary ministers."
I believe perhaps my main point was misinterpreted. The deacon and subdeacon at a solemn High Mass are an intergral part of the sacrificial offering. In fact, solemn High Mass cannot take place without a deacon and a subdeacon. Like sinkspur, we have several deacons in our 5-parish area, but none of them have a desire, nor frankly, are properly catechized nor educated in the rubrics for a solemn High Mass. It is too bad. The Novus Ordo can easily take place with 9-year-old altar girls and a priest. The Traditional Latin Solemn High Mass cannot take place without a deacon and a subdeacon. I believe it raises the responsibilities and duties to a much higher spiritual plane--in line with the high respect that should be given an ordained minister of God!
"So, they're basically altar boys with better vestments?"
See my response above to Catholic lady. In addition, I would think that being "an altar boy with better vestments" would be much more important to the liturgy (holding the sacrificial OBLATION) than being replaced with 9-year-old altar girls with pigtails whose feet don't even reach the floor when sitting.
I think the order of deacon is tremendously important.
I am glad to see you are a man of your convictions. I too have met some good ones and see some tremendous good they do in the Church--except that most of them still think they are laymen, based on my personal judgment.
Also, whatever did the pre-Vatican II Church do without permanent deacons?
Oops! I forgot. They actually had lots of priests back then--prior to the GREAT RENEWAL in the wake of that magnanimous council--the greatest of all time--mind you. They had priests back then... And lots of seminarians and boys discerning becoming vocations, and altar boys--lots of them.
They probably have to dress like laymen, by order of their bishops. Many bishops will not allow permanent deacons to wear collars, period.
Our bishop has asked us to wear clericals only when performing diaconal duties; he wants to make sure that we are distinguished from priests. I think that's a good balance.
Oh, and Paul VI decided to reinstitute the permanent diaconate at Vatican II, long before the bottom fell out of the numbers in the priesthood.
"Subdeacons do nothing at a Solemn Mass but stand by and look pretty."
Obviously, you have very little respect for the office you hold as a Sacred Minister, which by the way, a Sub-Deacon is, unless you subscribe to the "straw-subdeacon". Which by definition must be a tonsured cleric as well, in other words not sister mary sunshine & the hippie love dude.
Actually, isn't this what the majority of the people who crowd around the table do in the NOM, stand around & look pretty?
There are no ordained subdeacons, and haven't been for 30 years. The office was abolished in the early 70s, as was the ceremony of tonsure.
You know very well that the Novus Ordo is the Normative Mass, and that the Tridentine is available via Indult.
Just what we need. Two more raddie-traddies to trash the Novus Ordo and Vatican II.
The Tridentine is available via Indult. Ask your bishop.
And so, Father, we bring you these gifts. We ask you to make them holy by the power of your Spirit, that they may become the body + and blood of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at whose command we celebrate this eucharist. (ICEL Eucharistic Prayer III)
The NO Mass blurs the difference between the hierarchic priesthood and the common priesthood of the people.
P: Orate, fratres: ut meum ac vestrum sacrificium acceptabile fiat apud Deum Patrem omnipotem.
S: Suscipiat Dominus sacrificium de manibus tuis ad laudem et gloriam nominis sui, ad utilitatem quoque nostram totius que Ecclesiae suae sanctae.
Rather, it should be shouted from the rooftops that the Tridentine Mass was never suppressed, and is in fact still the official Mass of the Roman Catholic Church, and that the NO Mass is the exception, the experiment.
Mass, whether in Latin or the vernacular, may be celebrated lawfully only according to the rite of the Roman Missal promulgated 3 April 1969 by authority of Pope Paul VI ... notwithstanding the pretense of any custom, even immemorial custom, duly accept the Order of Mass in the Roman Missal. (Notification to the Conferences of Bishops, Notitiae 10 (1974), 353.)
Excellent Posts and very interesting article.
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